English Grammar

[Steve712]

Yes, yes, I know: I'm a nerd. I don't expect this to receive many replies.

Regardless of that, I want to have a serious discussion about the shortcomings and outright failures of English grammar. There are many of them, ranging from ambiguity (which is perhaps the most annoying for the non-anglophone speaker of the language), the vast amount of colloquialisms, the even vaster vocabulary all of the way to the many spelling irregularities.

Now, call me anal, but one of my biggest pet peeves is the verb to get, because people use it as an auxiliary verb when it is actually not so. What's more, the reason why we began to use to get as an auxiliary verb (colloquially and formally) is because the passive voice and the perfect tenses can be vague in conveying certain meanings and using to become in those cases is awkward.

I'll cease my rant for now and let any other prospective contributors post what they will.

[Kerze]

People who say ax.

It might not particularly be grammar but it still grinds my gears.

'Let me ax you something' - *UNIMPRESSED*

Also people who can't use x, y and i properly.

'Me and X and Y are going to go out' *SCREAMS IN ANGER*

[Steve712]

Pronunciation is a huge part of grammar and mispronunciation annoys me to the end of my wit too.

I also love your point about the nominative and accusative (subject and object). People don't seem to know how to use them properly and it drives me crazy. >.> It especially drives me crazy in the difference between "who" and "whom." Some people even use "whom" without firstly learning how to use it, which just defeats the purpose of using it at all.

Originally Posted by Steve712

Pronunciation is a huge part of grammar and mispronunciation annoys me to the end of my wit too.

Thats a funny one. Dialect has a lot to do with it.

[Shevanel]

I never understood how people misuse "set" and "sit". Like, how the hell do you get that wrong?

[Steve712]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Thats a funny one. Dialect has a lot to do with it.

That's true and I don't mind slight differences of dialect, but sometimes a pronunciation is just completely wrong no matter how you try to excuse it.

I never understood how people misuse "set" and "sit". Like, how the hell do you get that wrong?

People do that? O.o

[SolitaryKnight]

*Likes this thread*

Steve, your pet peeve with get was also shared by my grade 12 english teacher. She would not let any of her students use 'get' or 'got' in any written assignment. We also were never allowed to utter 'yeah, but...' or as she said 'yabbut'.

I was never too picky about grammar until I was studying Latin and Greek, where I learned how important grammar is to understanding language. Since then I've been a stickler for correct grammar, most of the time.

[Shevanel]

Originally Posted by Steve712

People do that? O.o

They do it enough that it is detailed in High School Grammar textbooks.

[Iniquity]

One of my pet peeves that I see daily: the "their, they're, there" sequence. 95% I see it, it's misused (I had to work hard on this first year of high school myself).

[NickT]

A lot is two words.

They're = they are
Their = possessive

Two = number
Too = also
To = preposition

Your = Possessive
You're = You are

It's = It is
Its = possessive

Etc, not ect. ET CETERA.

Do not end sentences with prepositions! ("Where you at?")

Lay requires a direct object (You LAY things down.)
Lie is reflexive (You LIE down.)

[Chip]

One of mine is "As per" as opposed to "per"

Another is the misuse of insure when someone means ensure

There are a lot of them actually.

Steve: Have you read "Eats, shoots and leaves"? If not, you MUST. As a nitpicking grammarian, you'll love it.

[St. Jimmy]

Okay for me, it's "you're" and "your". No one should be mixing them up.

Another thing, when people say "that" instead of "who".

Example: He's the one that went to camp yesterday.

It should be "who went" because you're talking about a person. If you were talking about an object, it would be "that went".

Originally Posted by SolitaryKnight

*Likes this thread*

Steve, your pet peeve with get was also shared by my grade 12 english teacher. She would not let any of her students use 'get' or 'got' in any written assignment. We also were never allowed to utter 'yeah, but...' or as she said 'yabbut'.

My ninth grade English teacher told us NEVER to use "get" or any form of it in a paper. She also said "got" is not even a word. I didn't get why at the time, but I completely understand now as I've matured more as a writer. It's really tacky, informal language and yet papers that I proofread in school have it even every other sentence.

One more thing, not knowing how to vary sentence structure. Now that is annoying.

[Harve]

Can i just post what i hope many others are thinking: what's an auxiliary verb? xD

But yeah, you'd actually go insane if you lived anywhere in England north of say... Birmingham. For example, when people round here tell a story they kinda say it in the present tense: "so i come in and i says...". Yes, i says, pronounced "a sez".
Also, you probably take getting this 'correct' for granted :P :
I were
You were
He were
We were/was
They were/was
I think thats roughly how it goes xD. I've sometimes confused people by using "while" instead of "until" too. There's loads more 'mistakes', but its just dialect really. Oh the joys of being sheltered from the 21st century (i say whilst browsing the internet)

[Gaetan]

My junior English teacher was an absolute Nazi with grammar, spelling, and word usage. Very strict. Most students were terrified of her. It's because of her I still type in perfect grammar (though I'm a terrible speller) online and in text messages. She also happens to be my boss's wife.

Her fourth book (all of them non-fiction history stuff) just came out last week, actually.

[Pseudojim]

“Oh! If you want to possessive it's just I-T-S, but if it's supposed to be a contraction then it's I-T-apostrophe-S... scallawag”
~ Strong Bad on "It's vs its"

[IsItSo]

Originally Posted by SolitaryKnight

*Likes this thread*We also were never allowed to utter 'yeah, but...' or as she said 'yabbut'.

I hate the word "utter." I also hate all of the rules for where commas should and should not be used.

I'm always really conscious of using correct grammar but when other people screw up, I don't really mind.

[Stuie]

I find that people who are ridiculously anal about grammar annoy me far more than the people who use the incorrect grammar. As long as it's possible to garner the meaning, I'm fine. What annoys me more is the American English reform, in particular, computers trying correct my already correct spelling.

People are going to have to get more used to non-standard grammar with increased globalisation. What's understood as English in a country of native speakers is vastly different to the variety of English used in, say Asia for example. With the rise of English as the largest second language in the world, expect English to rapidly change. The whole petty "grammar nazi" act makes little sense if the person you're attacking comes from a non-English speaking background and has been taught by someone in a similar situation.

*sigh* I wish I had the opportunity to write an essay on that for school.

[Beachboi92]

Originally Posted by Stuie

I find that people who are ridiculously anal about grammar annoy me far more than the people who use the incorrect grammar. As long as it's possible to garner the meaning, I'm fine. What annoys me more is the American English reform, in particular, computers trying correct my already correct spelling.

People are going to have to get more used to non-standard grammar with increased globalisation. What's understood as English in a country of native speakers is vastly different to the variety of English used in, say Asia for example. With the rise of English as the largest second language in the world, expect English to rapidly change. The whole petty "grammar nazi" act makes little sense if the person you're attacking comes from a non-English speaking background and has been taught by someone in a similar situation.

*sigh* I wish I had the opportunity to write an essay on that for school.

agreed

unless someones spelling or grammar is so bad that it makes it impossible to communicate an idea correctly i never get annoyed about people misspelling words or misusing them. If they do manage to create something completely incoherent than i think it is humorous as getting annoyed over it is a waste of my time. I think That grammar and spelling are a very random set of rules with no rhyme or reason (especially the english language) the purpose is to allow us to communicate more clearly. no matter what spelling/grammar "rules" there are, there is always a massive group of exceptions to those rules, and rules that make no sense or are pointless (as comes with anything based in a tradition, which spelling essentially is).

I would agree that spelling and grammar are important in communicating but i think that the quality, validity, and intelligence of an idea or message lay in the meaning and unless that is distorted into something unrecognizable via bad grammar or spelling i don't think it is a big deal. I always like to point out that you can write words with all the letters in between jumbled up and still have something that people read and understand.

I mean yeah spelling and grammar are something you should take the time to correct for a speech for some important cause, or a school essay, but when it comes to the internet, forums, chat rooms etc people who focus on grammar just annoy me. People make mistakes and not everyone is big about making sure they spelled and punctuated the message they sent, to what is pretty much a stranger, correctly.

I mean i'm all for some level of good grammar and spelling but to often grammar naziism is used as an ad hominem attack on people who make valid points or who are just having a little fun posting something on the internet. The thing about ad hominem attack or arguments is that it is essentially invalid, a waste of time for all parties involved on most occasions, and generally a prick move.

If you want to HELP someone by correcting grammar or spelling to HELP clarify their message then your the best grammar nazi i know and i will like you. If you want to use your "superior" grammar/spelling skills to be a jerk over the internet then just go jump in a fire.

Teh interwebz iz srs bznz i like using u in txt/typing situations and abrev stuff cause i am comfortable with it and it does not interfere with the message i am trying to convey, get over it and move on to something that matters.

*end of tirade*

[OutToSea]

Originally Posted by Stuie

I find that people who are ridiculously anal about grammar annoy me far more than the people who use the incorrect grammar. As long as it's possible to garner the meaning, I'm fine. What annoys me more is the American English reform, in particular, computers trying correct my already correct spelling.

This. I mean, really people? Out of all the screwed up, blatantly wrong things about the world, this is what you let bother you? I try to use correct grammar online, though I know that it isn't perfect. So long as I can figure out what they're trying to say, it doesn't bother me.

I recall a portion of my English class was dedicated to the evolution of the English language, and how "slang" and other vernacular morphed into what we now have as proper English. My teacher argued, that this "lower language" was essential for speech to continue to be an effective tool of communication.

In any case, I hold firmly to the belief that as long as I understand what you are saying (which is easier for me as a native English speaker), then language has served its purpose.

I understand those with pet peeves about language though, and don't hold it against them.