Shrinks and gays

[ArabMan]

Many ads and posts I read here on EC suggest that shrinks and psychologists are not all for gay rights.

I'm curious as to why people say that. In my short life and experience, all the shrinks I've met or consulted are extremely gay friendly, supportive and advance the gay cause on a day to day basis. I've never met one shrink that is against it...

I was just curious about your thoughts...

[Beachboi92]

well i think the problem is you have some of them (and it depends on area sometimes) who mix their personal beliefs with what they are required to do professionally. Technically i believe the APA requires them to deal with people who are LGBT in a way which states they are born that way and that they are the same child and need to be accepted etc if they want to keep their license to practice.

[AlyssWonderland]

I've never had this experience, but there's the whole anti-gay therapy that people still try to do... Some therapists will try to 'turn you straight' which ends up adding more damage than before.

[malachite]

well, being the person I am. I believe most shrinks are out to get your money. They'll tell you what you want to hear to get you keep coming back.

Its a shame, because there are shrinks out there that really do want to help people.

But those are my thoughts

[Lexington]

Do people still actually call them "shrinks"? That's probably indicative of the problem.

>>>well, being the person I am. I believe most shrinks are out to get your money. They'll tell you what you want to hear to get you keep coming back.

A common belief, but I think a misguided one. And there's a ton of factors that contribute to it.

* Diagnosing a medical issue is (comparatively) easier. A doctor can get independent clues as to the problem by doing things like checking a patient's temperature, or listening with a stethoscope. A psychiatrist/therapist has to resort to asking the patient questions to determine the problem.

* Whatever the problems the patient is experiencing involves the brain. As such, the therapist is stuck trying to get data from the patient whose brain might not be able to give an accurate assessment as to what the problem actually is.

* Patients are much more likely to approach the therapist from an adversarial position. People seem much more like to be distrustful of therapists than they are of medical doctors (although they get their fair share, as well). This again can be due to the exact nature of the problem - if the patient feels isolated, they're not going to be likely to "let the doctor in to the inner circle" to reveal what the problem is.

* Psychiatric and psychological problems can be deep-rooted. Often, the patient has spent years (or decades) coming up with coping and defensive mechanisms to deal with their issues. In order to make some real progress, often these mechanisms need to be broken down so the true issue can be confronted. People are usually VERY reluctant to open up in such a way, and so this can take quite a bit of time.

* Much of therapy - both psychiatric and medical - involves what you might call "nudging" rather than "shoving". The brain/mind is a delicate instrument, and as such, you want to be careful with how you handle it. As such, therapy, anti-depressants and all that tend to follow a course of gently nudging the mind back into place rather than violently pushing it. This can draw therapy out longer than most people would like.

* There's a tendency to look at therapists as "friends for hire", which immediately casts them in a negative light. I mean, if they were really friends, they wouldn't charge for what they do, right? Thing is - they perform a service just like your doctor or your mechanic. No one objects to paying a mechanic for fixing their car, and few object to paying the doctor for helping fix a broken leg. But unlike a doctor or mechanic, a therapist needs to earn the trust of his/her patients. If you don't become buddy-buddy with your mechanic, he can still fix your car. But until you feel comfortable with your therapist, and treat him like you would a friend, you'll be very reluctant to let him in on what's bothering you. Therefore, therapists have to go through the period where they (as cynics put it) "pretend to be your friend". They do this not to open your pursestrings but to open your head and heart a bit. So they can find out what you're really feeling, make a more accurate diagnosis, and get you on proper course of therapy.

Oddly, I found out that several decades ago, nurses were looked down on by most people for exactly the same reason. They were providing a service - tending the sick, offering comfort - that women were supposed to do out of the kindness of their hearts. So people considered professional nurses as a sort of "medical prostitute". Luckily, we moved beyond that. Hopefully, we can move beyond this view on therapists as well.

I've seen three therapists in my life. And in all three cases, once I got to a better spot, the therapy ended by mutual consent. From what I've learned from talking to therapists (as a non-patient), nothing pleases a therapist more than to say "I don't think you need to see me anymore". They do let former patients stay in touch, but it's great to be able to set them free to resume a kick-ass life without their past problems dogging them.

Lex

[FollowThePanda]

My parents are shrinks....
They're not the nicest people, but they do their job and follow standards to the letter and beyond.They wouldn't tell you its wrong, they'd tell you uis your life. But I have met a LOT of anti-gay shrinks in my life.

[Chip]

First, I think it's rather offensive that people would believe that the majority of mental health professionals would be doing what they're doling solely for the money. If you simply want to be a greedy piece of shit, there are much easier ways to do it than by becoming a medical doctor with a psychiatry specialty.

Second, I have to say I personally find the term "shrink" to be rather demeaning and offensive. While in general, I don't have a lot of respect for the psychiatry profession because I think many of them have become lazy and simply see a patient for a few minutes and then prescribe drugs, a good psychiatrist is crucial and valuable to people with certain types of mental health problems. On the whole, psychiatric medications are grossly overprescribed in the US, but that's at least in part due to the abundance of direct-to-consumer drug advertising, and people being inundated with the idea that if the slightest thing is wrong, you take a pill for it.

I think the main reason the OP hasn't had negative experiences with psychiatrists or psychologists as far as reparative therapy goes is because the culture in Canada are very different than in the US; gay marriage is legal and other rights for gays and lesbians are guaranteed under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, so the government is fully on board in recognizing that gays and lesbians are who they are, and my guess is that it would be a pretty egregious violation of Canadian standards of practice for a psychiatrist or therapist to tell someone that they could "change."

On the other hand, in the US, we have a ton of bigoted assholes, hiding behind the veil of religious doctrine, still arguing that being gay is a "choice" and that reparative therapy can turn a gay person straight. While this viewpoint is in the minority nationwide, and has been officially condemned by the APA, the religious bigots have enough people believing them that there is still plenty of business for the incompetent therapists practicing reparative therapy.

If you live in California, the likelihood of randomly selecting a therapist or psychiatrist who happens to be supportive of reparative therapy is pretty slim, while if you live in Mississippi or Arkansas or some other state full of bigoted bible-thumpers, the likelihood is much greater.

Slowly things are changing, but it takes time.

[RedState]

Well...the first obviously is the fact that being gay is not a medical condition. However, the struggles that one may face, and the isolation one may face from being gay, can certainly effect the mental health of someone.

I won't lie, I will freely admit that I have sought the council of a professional before, and never have encountered this. They always make a point to tell you that they are not there to judge you, but to help you in the situation you are currently in.

But, it seems today, that psy-doc really doesn't offer therapy sessions anymore (maybe some do) but rather simply prescribe you meds after a 15 minute sit down.

A therapist, while not able to write scripts, is a little more helpful when trying to actually talk through and get to the root of your initial problem imo.

But, the people that actually do have legitimate clinical depression, need to see both in conjunction...because only the meds can help the chemical imbalance that is occurring in the brain.

But, back to the original question: I have never found one that is anti-gay.

[Lexington]

I should point out another belief of mine. A lot of psychiatrists pull out the prescription pad when a new patient comes to see them because that's precisely what the patient wants. I've met several people who I felt might benefit from therapy, but whose attitude could be summed up with "if it ain't in pill form, I ain't interested". The idea of talking to a stranger about what's troubling them, and examining painful things in their past, strikes them as something they'd just as soon not face. They'd rather just get the pills so they won't feel so bad. The problem, then, is that they only feel better while on the pills. If they don't work on the root cause, they're stuck popping pills in perpetuity. This isn't to suggest the psychiatrists are blameless - they should fight to get people to address the underlying problem. But since most would simply pull up shop and go to someone else who will prescribe pills and not ask questions, many eventually adopt a cynical attitude towards same, and start prescribing as well.

Lex

[Chip]

Originally Posted by Lexington

I should point out another belief of mine. A lot of psychiatrists pull out the prescription pad when a new patient comes to see them because that's precisely what the patient wants.

I completely agree with this, and I agree with the other point you made, that the psychiatrists, in part due to managed care, take the approach of "If I say no, he'll just go to another doctor who will say yes." But the flip side is, I think a lot of psychiatrists, perhaps after years of patients insisting on pills, just automatically get into the mindset of prescribing, rather than in trying to encourage non-drug approaches to treatment.

The idea of talking to a stranger about what's troubling them, and examining painful things in their past, strikes them as something they'd just as soon not face. They'd rather just get the pills so they won't feel so bad. The problem, then, is that they only feel better while on the pills. If they don't work on the root cause, they're stuck popping pills in perpetuity.

So, so true. And it can be really hard to get someone to see why popping pills endlessly really isn't a solution. I don't think we'll really start to see the long-term effects of some of these drugs (in terms of diseases and other problems they cause) for another 5 or 10 years.

Lex[/QUOTE]

[Swamp56]

Originally Posted by Beachboi92

well i think the problem is you have some of them (and it depends on area sometimes) who mix their personal beliefs with what they are required to do professionally. Technically i believe the APA requires them to deal with people who are LGBT in a way which states they are born that way and that they are the same child and need to be accepted etc if they want to keep their license to practice.

Which APA are you talking about?

The American Psychological Association forbids psychologists from trying to change one's sexual orientation though means such as therapy.

[xCrazyInsanity]

Originally Posted by Swamp56

Which APA are you talking about?

The American Psychological Association forbids psychologists from trying to change one's sexual orientation though means such as therapy.

It does.
NOW.

There are plenty who are still stuck in their ways and no one's bothered to revoke their lisences.
And they can still have homophobic undertones without giving the 'reparitve' bullshit

[ArabMan]

I don't know, it all seems strange to me. If I ever meet a psychologist that starts talking "anti-gay", I think I'll freak out and will not hesitate to write a complaint to the psychologist association.

With regards to the approach for therapy, there are many different ones, cognitive, psychoanalysis, behavioral and all have their pros and cons but should all be started without medication and then incorporate pills for help if judged necessary but it's very rarely prescribed. The European approach is more leaning toward psychoanalysis/couch therapy which is very soft, lengthy and doesn't require pills while in north america, pills are prescribed too easily (kind of a miracle pill theory where all solutions to your problems lie outside you)...

Interesting debates were opened here. Thanks