Any LDS? (Mormons)

Hi! I'm an exchange student, living in Salt Lake City. When I first moved here all the mormons were really really nice to me but when they found out I wasn't interested in visiting their church or learning more about Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon, they basically started to ignore me. I'd love to learn more and ask questions to an LDS (or ex-LDS) about the church. I've been researching. I don't want to offend, I'm just curious. I'd also love to discuss how one deals with being gay and LDS.

Thank you in advanced to anyone who is willing to chat!

----

I should say that I was interested in knowing things, but they would avoid many of my questions....I'm interested in knowing things, but I don't want to be converted. That is what I mean by "not wanting to learn more about Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon".

[Gerry]

Hi there!

What exactly would you like to know about the LDS Church? I'm not LDS myself but know quite a bit about it. Feel free to message me too if you'd like.

[ArcaneVerse]

Hii, I was raised as a Mormon and a lot of my family still are active Mormons so any questions you might have I should be able to answer or at least point you in the right direction. =]

Well, I mean I've read a lot about them as well and feel I know quite a bit but I just don't understand how they find it logical that native americans are "people of Israel" when it is scientifically impossible? That is one thing...also...why do they hold Joseph Smith up in such a good light when he was a crook and polygamist. (FYI I'm not against polygamy if the man can support his wives and the marriage is not arranged and is consensual...oh and if the girl is of age!)

[ArcaneVerse]

Originally Posted by Lmont

Well, I mean I've read a lot about them as well and feel I know quite a bit but I just don't understand how they find it logical that native americans are "people of Israel" when it is scientifically impossible? That is one thing...also...why do they hold Joseph Smith up in such a good light when he was a crook and polygamist. (FYI I'm not against polygamy if the man can support his wives and the marriage is not arranged and is consensual...oh and if the girl is of age!)

I dont know the specifics of the "people of Israel", and correct me if im wrong anyone, but I think that's a standard Christian belief, something about the 12(?) tribes and that we are all descendants from them.

About Joseph Smith, his history is hard to research as you will come across a bias one way or another, but in the eyes of the LDS Church and its members, he was a victim of hate, slander and any charges\convictions were false. Its not hard to believe their account of events when you consider the whole history of the church and all the persecution they went trough in those times like Temple burnings, murders because at one point it was legal to kill Mormons up until the law changed in 1976 just to name a few, they have a very tumultuous past.

When it comes to the subject of polygamy Mormons tend not to know really where they stand on it, you will find those who say the church has never practised it and you find those who say they once did but stopped when it became illegal.

What I was told on the subject is the latter, they have a history of practising polygamy but stopped when the laws changed, I was also told they only married multiple wives because at the time women couldn't own land etc. etc. so when a lot of men died in combat or from sickness or whatever else the women married men, who already had wives, so they could keep their land and would have a man to provide for them and their children.

Whether any of that is true though, is a matter of opinion and whether Joseph Smith himself practised polygamy is again a matter of opinion. I was also taught that Polygamy may be practised in the afterlife.

I hope that helped some, it can be very confusing sometimes when looking into the churches past as you never know what is true and what is false, I would suggest that if you do continue to look into the Church of Latter Day Saints beliefs and history that you be careful about what you read, there is a lot of hateful websites out there. It would be better to try and get both sides of the story on most subjects.

Anyways if you have any more questions I would be more then happy to answer them for you =]

[Darkwing65]

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints believes that Joseph Smith, in 1830, received a divine revelation by God. Endowed with the Holy Spirit he was able to orate the word of God to be able to placed into writing. Thus, the book of Mormon.

The book of Mormon gives a history of the lost tribe of Israel. The Tribe was said to have inhabited the New World along side the Natives we know of. The Two parties warred and the Lost Tribe was destroyed. God being angry, died the skin of the Natives red as punishment.

The Tribes of Israel are the descendants of Jacob, descendant of Abraham. The book of Mormon then, links the Mormon faith to both Jewish and Christian origins.

Honestly, i could care less if they are polygamist. They are however, a very conservative and Hierarchical institution. They have been known to be racist and condemning. Along side that, they are very secretive. A lot of scholars tend to not classify The Church of Jesus Christ of Later-day Saints a Christian denomination, but more their religion.

However, i have known wonderful people who a Mormons. So be careful not to judge the individual along side the group. The religion itself is quite peculiar to me. I feel like Joseph Smith was either a very good con-man or a prophet, and probably a little of both.

[ArcaneVerse]

Originally Posted by Darkwing65

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints believes that Joseph Smith, in 1830, received a divine revelation by God. Endowed with the Holy Spirit hes was able to orate the word of God to be able to placed into writing. Thus, the book of Mormon.

The book of Mormon gives a history of the lost tribe of Israel. The Tribe was said to have inhabited the New World along side the Natives we know of. The Two parties warred and the Lost Tribe was destroyed. God being angry, died the skin of the Natives red as punishment.

The Tribes of Israel are the descendants of Jacob, descendant of Abraham. The book of Mormon then, links the Mormon faith to both Jewish and Christian origins.

Honestly, i could care less if they are polygamist. They are however, a very conservative and Hierarchical institution. They have been known the be racist and condemning. Along side that, they are very secretive. A lot of scholars tend to not classify The Church of Jesus Christ of Later-day Saints a Christian denomination, but more their religion.

However, i have known wonderful people who a Mormons. So be careful not to judge the individual along side the group. The religion itself is quite peculiar to me. I feel like Joseph Smith was either a very good con-man or a prophet, and probably a little of both.

Damn, you said all that better then I could have =P.

Though I agree with most of what you said I would however like to point out that while it is often said the church has a history of racism it isn't as bad as it is claimed to be, from what I have been told and what I have read the church never excluded anyone based on skin colour from attending their church, only barring them from holding the "priesthood", which I guess is best described as a spiritual calling\blessing\power that is giving to men once they reach a certain age, and at the time that was more then a lot of other religions where preaching and practising. That's not to say there was never any racism because it was everywhere back then.

But they definitely are secretive (Most major religions are in some way or other) and they do have a questionable history and can be very extreme in their views and actions, especially if you believe what the documentary 8: The Mormon Proposition has to say is true.,

[Darkwing65]

Originally Posted by ArcaneVerse

Damn, you said all that better then I could have =P.

Though I agree with most of what you said I would however like to point out that while it is often said the church has a history of racism it isn't as bad as it is claimed to be, from what I have been told and what I have read the church never excluded anyone based on skin colour from attending their church, only barring them from holding the "priesthood", which I guess is best described as a spiritual calling\blessing\power that is giving to men once they reach a certain age, and at the time that was more then a lot of other religions where preaching and practising. That's not to say there was never any racism because it was everywhere back then.

Well, for 150 years Mormons believed that dark skinned people were cursed and therefor could not attain priesthood. Although this is not said in scripture, it was church doctrine. Institutionalized racism like that, amended or not, resonants through a group for centuries; in some cases never ceases.

---------- Post added 30th Oct 2010 at 05:03 PM ----------

This old video is Friarly accurate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFZ1jVO3-OE

The thing I find funny about many of the Mormons is that they will just disregard much of what the Holy Bible says and say it was mis translated and then bring up the sacred Doctrine and Covenants and say that they must follow what has been set forth to them by Joseph Smith from God.

Why then do they ignore polygamy when Joseph Smith was told by God that it would be ok?

61 And again, as pertaining to the law of the priesthood—if any man espouse a virgin, and desire to espouse aanother, and the first give her consent, and if he espouse the second, and they are virgins, and have vowed to no other man, then is he justified; he cannot commit adultery for they are given unto him; for he cannot commit adultery with that that belongeth unto him and to no one else.
62 And if he have aten virgins given unto him by this law, he cannot commit adultery, for they belong to him, and they are given unto him; therefore is he justified.
63 But if one or either of the ten virgins, after she is espoused, shall be with another man, she has committed adultery, and shall be destroyed; for they are given unto him to amultiply and replenish the earth, according to my commandment, and to fulfil the promise which was given by my Father before the foundation of the world, and for their exaltation in the eternal worlds, that they may bear the souls of men; for herein is the work of my Father continued, that he may be bglorified.

[Chip]

For the same reason their Living Prophet mysteriously -- and coincidentally -- just *happened* to have a revelation that it was now ok to let black people have full rights in the church... a few days before an IRS ruling was set to yank their nonprofit status because they were discriminating. Same thing with polygamy. Once the law went against it, they magically decided that God had spoken and it was no longer appropriate.

However, from what I understand from a number of Mormon friends (there are a lot here in northern california), polygamy is alive and well, just more on the down low now. There are apparently quite a few communities out here where there will be a half-dozen homes with an (apparently) single woman with 4 or 5 children, and one guy who just happens to hang out at these half-dozen homes on an alternating basis, and just happens to act like a dad to the kids. Makes you go "Hmmmmmm" but nobody really cares as long as it's on the down low and nobody flaunts it.

I just read "Under the Banner of Heaven" and found that people should be more concerned. These fundamentalist LDS are forcing 14-15 year old girls to marry 60 year olds. They are collecting welfare and are collecting millions of dollars a year!

[stad90]

I grew up LDS (and still go to church--I'm assuming I'll break away once I come out... yay for rationalizing myself and making excuses lol).

Originally Posted by Chip

For the same reason their Living Prophet mysteriously -- and coincidentally -- just *happened* to have a revelation that it was now ok to let black people have full rights in the church... a few days before an IRS ruling was set to yank their nonprofit status because they were discriminating. Same thing with polygamy. Once the law went against it, they magically decided that God had spoken and it was no longer appropriate.

However, from what I understand from a number of Mormon friends (there are a lot here in northern california), polygamy is alive and well, just more on the down low now. There are apparently quite a few communities out here where there will be a half-dozen homes with an (apparently) single woman with 4 or 5 children, and one guy who just happens to hang out at these half-dozen homes on an alternating basis, and just happens to act like a dad to the kids. Makes you go "Hmmmmmm" but nobody really cares as long as it's on the down low and nobody flaunts it.

The church definitely does have a sketchy past--especially regarding racism. I wasn't born yet when the race took effect, but I've been very tuned in with the Prop 8 activities.

As for the polygamy, there is absolutely NONE that I have ever heard of--at least not here in SoCal. Those communities are by FUNDAMENTALISTS--people who broke away form the church years and years ago when polygamy was being stopped.

Originally Posted by Lmont

I just read "Under the Banner of Heaven" and found that people should be more concerned. These fundamentalist LDS are forcing 14-15 year old girls to marry 60 year olds. They are collecting welfare and are collecting millions of dollars a year!

Yup. They're weird people.

Also the LDS church is building a $4 million (or billion I can't remember) dollar mall here in downtown SLC.

[Chip]

Originally Posted by stad90

As for the polygamy, there is absolutely NONE that I have ever heard of--at least not here in SoCal. Those communities are by FUNDAMENTALISTS--people who broke away form the church years and years ago when polygamy was being stopped.

Actually that's very possible. I know that the Waco and Arizona polygamy sects are breakaways from the mainstream church; perhaps the groups in norcal are also. I also know there's quite a bit of polygamy in parts of middle and southern Utah which are probably also breakaways from the mainstream.

Possible? That is exactly what happened! Read "Under the Banner of Heaven"

[ArcaneVerse]

Originally Posted by Chip

Actually that's very possible. I know that the Waco and Arizona polygamy sects are breakaways from the mainstream church; perhaps the groups in norcal are also. I also know there's quite a bit of polygamy in parts of middle and southern Utah which are probably also breakaways from the mainstream.

Its true, there are breakaway groups of mormons who outwardly practice Polygamy but they are not apart of the LDS church nor are their actions condoned by the LDS. The LDS church believes that you should follow the laws of the land and because polygamy is illegal they do not practice it or say that it is ok to practice it.

[ArcaneVerse]

Originally Posted by Darkwing65

Well, for 150 years Mormons believed that dark skinned people were cursed and therefor could not attain priesthood. Although this is not said in scripture, it was church doctrine. Institutionalized racism like that, amended or not, resonants through a group for centuries; in some cases never ceases.

---------- Post added 30th Oct 2010 at 05:03 PM ----------

This old video is Friarly accurate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFZ1jVO3-OE

They believe that dark skinned people are descendants of those who were cursed, yes, just like all other Christian religions, the Mormon church is not any more special or more "racist" in this area. Please read down further in this post in regards to the racism.

I have never seen that cartoon before but I would not trust it completely, as some of it may be true but it seems to be subtly anti-mormon and thus likely to be false in places. I shall try and get my parents to watch it and see what they have to say about it and try to get back to you about its validity.

Originally Posted by Chip

For the same reason their Living Prophet mysteriously -- and coincidentally -- just *happened* to have a revelation that it was now ok to let black people have full rights in the church... a few days before an IRS ruling was set to yank their nonprofit status because they were discriminating. Same thing with polygamy. Once the law went against it, they magically decided that God had spoken and it was no longer appropriate.

However, from what I understand from a number of Mormon friends (there are a lot here in northern california), polygamy is alive and well, just more on the down low now. There are apparently quite a few communities out here where there will be a half-dozen homes with an (apparently) single woman with 4 or 5 children, and one guy who just happens to hang out at these half-dozen homes on an alternating basis, and just happens to act like a dad to the kids. Makes you go "Hmmmmmm" but nobody really cares as long as it's on the down low and nobody flaunts it.

Let me add in some facts to your statement, while yes the church didnt allow non whites to hold the priesthood they have been allowed to attend church meetings since the start and some where very prominent in early times, which is a shit load more then a lot of churches accepted in the more racist times, so please keep things in perspective.

Another thing that needs to be added to show the other side of the argument is while it is possible they, as you put it, "mysteriously -- and coincidentally -- just *happened*" to receive a revelation at the time they were being threatened by the government to change their beliefs, it is also very possible that they received the revelation at that time because it was the right moment to implement a great change in the church which any earlier may have caused even more trouble and hate for them by those outside their religion and also because its the Mormons belief that they have to follow the laws of the land so a revelation to coincide with the changing of the world and its laws is not that hard to believe.

The church had then and still maintains now an extremely high number of non white members who know what the Mormons believe and the churches history, cant have been too racist now can they? don't see a whole lot of non whites in the KKK and other such racist groups huh?

Again polygamy is not supported by the LDS church in modern times, whether it has been in the past is open for debate so please if your going to comment include all the facts, not just your bias.

Originally Posted by Lmont

Also the LDS church is building a $4 million (or billion I can't remember) dollar mall here in downtown SLC.

Doesn't surprise me, they own a lot of property and hold a lot of positions of power in SLC and Utah. To them SLC is their holy land, similar to the Catholics Vatican.