My new car is coercive (mini-rant)

[maverick]

So I just bought a 2011 Hyundai Accent the other day, and it's a really sweet little hatchback, I love it. I needed a new car SO BADLY (you have no idea, my last car was literally like a horse with two broken legs, it was so bad it broke down entirely when I was trying to get it down to the dealership for a trade-in).

The only thing I hate about this new car is that it automatically beeps at you until you put your seatbelt on. Now I know that you should, for all practical and reasonable purposes, put your seatbelt on. I recognize their contribution to the safety of society. I still hate them, and I still hate to wear them, and up until this point I had usually just foregone the seatbelt. It's not that I don't think they're useful, I'm just sort of fatalistic.

But ever since I bought this car, I do wear my seatbelt because it's the only thing that will stop that obnoxious beeping. And even though I'm kind of resentful towards the car for forcing me to wear my seatbelt through negative reinforcement, I'm kind of glad to be safer too.

I dunno, is anybody else ambivalent towards machines not just telling you what to do (such as at a computerized checkout line or at an ATM) but coercing you to do something or otherwise force a negative consequence on you? I'm sure that this is really just the advent of this kind of relationship between people and machinized computers.

[QuantumBoi]

Aww. It sucks that your car broke down on the way to the dealership. Forgive me, but it was also a bit humourous. Regardless, congrats on the new car. =]

Well, in most states and areas, it is also law to have a seatbelt on while driving. Imagine how much worse of a negative reinforcement it would be to be pulled over and receive a ticket. The car is simply trying to be a good mother/father. The computerized checkout lines and ATMs are just doing the same. You probably underestimate how many people are too ignorant to use them without automated explicit directions.

Also, I wouldn't choose not to do a safety precaution that is easy and yet increases your safety significantly. Car wrecks are disastrous and not uncommon. My mom's biological mom was killed in a car crash when my mom was but a young girl. So don't risk your life. Just obey the car and buckle up. Haha.

[Darkwing65]

I won't fold to Skynet! lol i totally Found the sensors under my seats in my truck and unplugged them. However, i always wear my seatbelt. Something about hanging upside down from one really made me quite fond of seatbelt.

[mnguy]

My car, a 2007 model, will beep and increase the frequency the longer the belt is unlatched and the car is moving, but it stops after about 1-2 mins. I've found this out when driving through a large parking lot and not putting on the belt. Now, maybe it would start beeping again, but I haven't driven long enough to test that. Maybe yours will stop beeping, but maybe not.

I don't like the "negative consequence" idea and there should be an easy deafeat to it. Since there may not be, here's a solution. Go to the nearest junk yard, find the same type of belt/buckle system, cut the belt and get the male part of the buckle. Put it into the female part of the buckle on your car. Your car will think the seatbelt is latched. This should work, but I support wearing the seatbelt if you don't want to die or be seriously injured in a car accident.

[kettlkorn]

There are ways to deactivate that beeping. I'm not sure how because my brother used a bunch of big mechanic words I didn't understand. He said it is a huge pain in the ass though...

[starfish]

I've never understood why some people are so opposed to wearing a seat belt.

[QuantumBoi]

Originally Posted by kettlkorn

There are ways to deactivate that beeping. I'm not sure how because my brother used a bunch of big mechanic words I didn't understand. He said it is a huge pain in the ass though...

Haha. Well what help you are! =P

Originally Posted by starfish

I've never understood why some people are so opposed to wearing a seat belt.

Me neither. It is almost ridiculous when someone straight out refuses to use a seatbelt.

[xequar]

My only bitch about this thread is that the OP bought a Hyundai.

A Hyundai? Really? I had to drive a Kia (same thing as a Hyundai) van around for a few weeks. If I had to drive a Hyundai or a Kia as my daily driver, I would give up motoring. I know that their cars have come a long way and that some of their models are competitive with real cars, but seriously, I see that nameplate and wonder what went wrong in that person's life that they had to buy a Hyundai instead of a real car.

As for the seat belt thing, the reason newer cars ding at you isn't technology. It's a relaxation of rules by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. In the '70s, the car companies were all experimenting with technological methods to compel seat belt usage, including continuous buzzers, interlocks that would prevent the car from being put into gear if the seat belt was unbuckled, and the like, and a few examples of production automobiles actually made it to sale with such technologies (one trim line of one year of the Chrysler New Yorker is one of those IIRC). However, the car companys' and NHTSA's research showed that they did not increase seat belt usage because people would either defeat the technology or try to ignore it. NHTSA eventually relented and restricted implimentation to a buzzer upon starting the car, deciding that additional warnings and buzzers and lights constituted an unwarranted distraction, but in recent years, NHTSA relaxed those rules.

Personally, I think that the government has no proper business telling me or anyone else that we *must* wear a seat belt, so if I or the OP or anyone else feels like being a dumbass, then that should be our prerogative. That said, I grew up with parents that wouldn't put the car in gear until my belt was bucked (and that was in the '80s when everyone still hated seat belts), and I wear mine every time all the time, as I feel odd without it.

[maverick]

I've never understood why some people are so opposed to wearing a seat belt.

Personally, I've never understood why people are insistent on it to the point of forcing you to do it (i.e. the law). Sure, it's safer to wear one, but you know what's even safer than that? Not driving in cars. But we don't seem in a big hurry to replace them with mass transportation, despite their deadly track record. Random fatal carwrecks are pretty much the lions of fate that thin the human herd at this point. I mean, think about it - how many people do you know have died or are related to someone who has died in a car wreck?

That doesn't really say to me, "Hey, maybe we should strap ourselves to this giant hunk of steel going 80 miles an hour right alongside other giant hunks of steel going 80 miles an hour, half of whom are probably eating behind the wheel, putting on makeup, talking on the cellphone, or texting."

That says to me, "Hey, maybe we need to think of a different transportation other than cars. One where people are less likely to kill themselves or other people using it."

It's one thing to make a law that I can't get drunk and drive, or play loud music, or even text and drive - those are things that affect the safety and enjoyment of other people on the road. But the only person endangered by not wearing a seatbelt is that person.

But, like I said, I'm wearing one now. I'm too lazy to disengage the alarm, and I recognize that wearing a seatbelt is safer, so as long as I have a car that will remind me to do it, I'll put it on just to avoid that beeping sound. I know that sounds weird, but I can't stand repetitive noises like that. It is the perfect aversion training for me, lol....

Diary of Fools explains it perfectly as far as I'm concerned:

The price we ultimately pay for the privilege of our lives potentially being saved? Constant fucking annoyance the other 99.999998% of the time spent in the car. Y'know, those stretches when it ISN'T actively colliding with a fellow high-velocity quarter-ton of steel...

...What I don't respect is nanny-state molly-coddling of people with a self-destructive streak as wide as Rosie O'Donnell's ass. If it's not technically illegal to drink bleach, masturbate with a bungee cord around your throat, or bathe in kerosene and then light yourself on fire in the middle of a parking lot, why should it be illegal to drive 70 m.p.h. on the highway without bothering to lash yourself to your chair first? Darwin has a way of thinning the herd, and who am I to argue with natural selection?

10 Reasons I Fucking Hate Seatbelts

---------- Post added 21st Jan 2011 at 06:14 AM ----------

A Hyundai? Really? I had to drive a Kia (same thing as a Hyundai) van around for a few weeks. If I had to drive a Hyundai or a Kia as my daily driver, I would give up motoring. I know that their cars have come a long way and that some of their models are competitive with real cars, but seriously, I see that nameplate and wonder what went wrong in that person's life that they had to buy a Hyundai instead of a real car.

Hyundais are the most fuel-efficient carmakers in America. I get 30 miles to the gallon in town and 45 on the highway in my new car. I also have a 100,000 mile bumper-to-bumper warranty with the manufacturer. And Hyundais top the list of safest cars in America for 2011.

I wonder what your idea of competitive is, honestly. I thought the Accent being lauded as one of the safest, most fuel-efficient cars in America was a pretty good bet. Maybe I'm wrong, but my standards don't include things like "horsepower" and other shit like that. I don't care anything about cars. I just want one that will get me from this place to that place, alive, and fairly cheaply, since I tend to travel a lot.

Anyway, this is what my car looks like:



---------- Post added 21st Jan 2011 at 06:20 AM ----------

^ That hatchback is the bomb.

[lostinthought9]

My mom's truck (Dodge Ram) has the same annoying beeping sounds when the seat belt isn't being used. It'll eventually stop after a couple of minutes, as I assume the Hyundai will as well. If not, you can always keep the seat belt clicked in, and just ride on top of it. My uncle does that, since he refuses to wear one, and is annoyed by the sounds too. Then, that creates problems, seeing as you can be ticketed for not wearing a seat belt.

Anyways, I always wear my seat belt, and it feels weird when I don't click it in right away. They increase safety, and is overall a great feature. I recommend you wearing them as well.

Oh, and while although the argument about Hyundai not being much of a promising car manufacturer may have been valid years ago, the company is actually starting to make a name for itself. Their new models Genesis and Sonata has been ranked with and compared to other top-manufacturers around the world. They still have a long ways to go, but I don't think she should be so easily dismissed either.

[xequar]

Originally Posted by maverick

[/COLOR]

Hyundais are the most fuel-efficient carmakers in America. I get 30 miles to the gallon in town and 45 on the highway in my new car. I also have a 100,000 mile bumper-to-bumper warranty with the manufacturer. And Hyundais top the list of safest cars in America for 2011.

I wonder what your idea of competitive is, honestly. I thought the Accent being lauded as one of the safest, most fuel-efficient cars in America was a pretty good bet. Maybe I'm wrong, but my standards don't include things like "horsepower" and other shit like that. I don't care anything about cars. I just want one that will get me from this place to that place, alive, and fairly cheaply, since I tend to travel a lot.

That's such a bullshit comparison that it's not even funny. Hyundai is not a full-line manufacturer, so comparing them to the likes of Toyota or Ford is an utter misrepresentation and a crock of shit. Where's Hyundai's SUVs, small, medium, or large? Where's Hyundai's trucks or vans (ok, there is a Kia minivan. It's a piece of shit.)?

When you don't have entries in half the market segments and no entires in any of the large vehicle segments, it's really easy to skew your average numbers to look favorable. Looking segment-to-segment, Hyundai's not class-leading in any segment in terms of fuel mileage. Like I said, some of their products are finally competitive with real cars, in that you're not going to need every single second and inch of that 10/100 warranty anymore, and you actually stand a chance of surviving a crash now, and that you might get actual modern technology and convenience content now, and you might be able to accelerate faster than a 1982 Diesel Escort now, and newer Hyundais actually look like original designs, rather than just copying the designs of others (The Hyundai Santa Fe was copied off the Ford Escape, the Sonata was the Accord, et cetera). These are all very very very recent developments on the part of Hyundai, and it's only within the last year that one would consider buying a Hyundai for any other reason than the price.

By way of comparison, people love Ford trucks, and the F-150 has been the best selling of any vehicle model in the United States for well over a decade now. People buy for the capability. People love Toyota cars. Until recently, they were widely regarded as the most reliable brand of cars, and the Camry has been the best selling car model in the United States since 1996, when it bumped the Ford Taurus from that slot. People buy Mustangs and Cameros for the performance. People buy BMWs and Mercedeses for the driving dynamics and luxury. People typically buy Hyundais for one reason-the price.

And that reasoning is why Hyundai will remain a bit player and never play with the big kids. At some point, Hyundai's going to have to charge for the content they're putting in their cars. They're going to have to charge for the quality improvements. They're going to need to become known for something more than being cheap (different than inexpensive) cars. Otherwise, they'll stay over in ther corner with Mitsubishi and Chrysler and the other car companies no one gives a shit about.



On topic, my '06 Element does the thing with the seat belt ding, too, where it beeps every 30 seconds, although I have no idea for how long. The only reason I found out was because it once took me more than 30 seconds to move the car from my parents' main driveway to their second driveway.

[maverick]

Otherwise, they'll stay over in ther corner with Mitsubishi and Chrysler and the other car companies no one gives a shit about.

My question is, why should we really give a shit about any of them?

If somebody on the street sees my car and thinks, "Man, he must be a loser, driving around a cheapass Hyundai," I'd think that person needed a lot more important things to worry about than judging me based on the fact that I'm driving an economy car and not a Hummer or F-150.

I mean, I don't see someone in a Mercedes on the street and think to myself, "Wow, his car payment must be be a grand a month, guess he must lead a worthwhile life!"

"The things you own end up owning you." ~ Tyler Durden

[starfish]

Gees if someone is a failure for buying an inexpensive new car, I must be a total loser for driving a 15 year old car.

Any way congrats on the new car. I too am a fan of hatch backs. They are handy when you need to put a bulky item in the the car.

Over the years I've had a few small FWD cars as rentals. They can be quite fun if you drive them right.

[maverick]

Gees if someone is a failure for buying an inexpensive new car, I must be a total loser for driving a 15 year old car.

Anyone who saw the piece-of-shit GM I was driving around for the last ten years would consider the Hyundai a serious upgrade, lol. I got my Grand Am (V6 racing engine) my freshman year of college and I've been out of college almost four years now. So I definitely got my money out of it - I'll never be one of those people who sits there and "trades up" every two or three years.

At least the Accent has the basics, like a working rear view mirror (my rear view mirror on my old car fell off last year), a working automated locking system (my old car's keyless entry got destroyed in a spelunking accident over a year ago), a working heater, a working lighter, unbent tire rods that don't eat a brand new tire every three months, an engine with a functional head gasket, and a coolant system that isn't full of sludge from oil leaking into it.

I can't complain too much, the Grand Am was a pretty dependable car considering the hell I put it through (and the lack of maintenance) but towards the end it was giving me so much mechanical trouble I was seriously considering leaving it on the side of the highway and setting it on fire.

Any way congrats on the new car. I too am a fan of hatch backs. They are handy when you need to put a bulky item in the the car

Thanks! I was really impressed with it when I had to load groceries yesterday.

[the ry guy]

nvrmnd; i'm not going to say anything

[RaRa]

I SHARE YOUR PAIN.

Well, I don't mind wearing seat belts...but when my friends who don't like em sit shotgun and they don't wear em...

*blooooonnnnggggg* *bloooonnnnngggg* *blooooonnnngg* and it gets progressively louder...

[maverick]

Originally Posted by RaRa

I SHARE YOUR PAIN.

Well, I don't mind wearing seat belts...but when my friends who don't like em sit shotgun and they don't wear em...

*blooooonnnnggggg* *bloooonnnnngggg* *blooooonnnngg* and it gets progressively louder...

Yeah, it's obnoxious, but at the same time, I'm sort of glad it forces me to wear it. That's the crazy thing to me. I'm being forced to do something I don't like and otherwise wouldn't do, but it's sort of gratifying too, because my thought process is like: Dammit, that beeping! The seatbelt thing! *put on seatbelt* There, it stopped. Ugh, I hate that noise! I hate machines that tell me what to do! But at least I'm safer now. And now I won't have some stupid reason for a cop to pull me over...

I guess it just weirds me out that I'm being forced to do something and part of me likes it, or I have begun to rationalize myself into liking or tolerating it.

I feel Skinnerized.

[RaRa]

Originally Posted by maverick

Yeah, it's obnoxious, but at the same time, I'm sort of glad it forces me to wear it. That's the crazy thing to me. I'm being forced to do something I don't like and otherwise wouldn't do, but it's sort of gratifying too, because my thought process is like: Dammit, that beeping! The seatbelt thing! *put on seatbelt* There, it stopped. Ugh, I hate that noise! I hate machines that tell me what to do! But at least I'm safer now. And now I won't have some stupid reason for a cop to pull me over...

I guess it just weirds me out that I'm being forced to do something and part of me likes it, or I have begun to rationalize myself into liking or tolerating it.

I feel Skinnerized.

My grandma's the worst though. She refuses to wear it and I have to go through minutes of it beeping until it stops. It than echos in my ear the rest of the day...At least you wear yours.