'Feminine' Gays

[Moonstrike]

Are so-called 'feminine' gays a detriment to gay equality? Would the gay community still recieve the same amount of discrimination if all gay guys were masculine? Would you prefer there to be less 'feminine' gays?

I thought this video was good:

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[Zontar]

That's a matter of subjectivity. I think some feminine guys are rather attractive...it's a big turn-on for me.

There's a difference between them and "flamers" though. Flamers are quite possibly a big detriment to our public image, and there's no reason for them to behave like that other than persistent rebellion against their family who rejected 'em.

[Eric]

I don't think girly gay dudes are a detriment to equality rights at all. In fact, locally, those are really the only ones who actively participate in LGBT-related events. They're louder and prouder than masculine guys to me.

I have seen some guys who are wayyyy over-the-top (hitting on almost every guy they see, making innuendo jokes excessively, etc). Those guys are definitely more annoying, but much more rare.

I'm pretty manly, but I do act effeminately on occasion. Some of my friends take exception sometimes, unfortunately. :\

[maverick]

Are so-called 'feminine' gays a detriment to gay equality?

I'd say yes and no. Yes because feminine guys are more behaviorally "abnormal", and any gender-atypical behavior, especially in adults, makes some heterosexual adults uncomfortable. My straight family doesn't mind gays who "act normal", but they also consider even the most innocuous rebellions against gender stereotype to be "flaunting it", and find obvious gays to be offensive or obnoxious. My mom told me in college that one of my more feminine gay friends literally repulsed her. I found his campy behavior endearing (if slightly wearying after awhile), while she thought it was revolting because it made his sexuality a part of every conversation. Even those that disagree with it can't escape its existence in someone who is that openly gay.

Coming from the opposite side of the fence as a "butch", showing straights that you disregard gender roles entirely is kind of an off-putting concept to them. When I lived in the countryside, my neighbors wouldn't even talk to us because I was a girl who wore short hair and trenchcoats to work, while my male gay roommate wore long hair and stayed home to cook and do housework.

However, the most vocal LGBTQ activists I've ever known were gender-atypical (either masculine women or effeminate men). They get the most shit done politically. So I think it's a wash-out.

Would the gay community still recieve the same amount of discrimination if all gay guys were masculine?

I think so, because I think people's main issue with homosexuality is the fact that it's spoken against in all of the major theistic religions. At worst, it's considered an abomination worthy of death. At best, it's adultery. Regardless of individual behavior, gays can't change those interpretations.

Would you prefer there to be less 'feminine' gays?

To be perfectly honest, I don't go out of my way to befriend extremely feminine guys because a lot of them in my experience have encompassed behaviors I don't like in straight female friends (fastidiousness, gossip, catty interpersonal relationships, and exaggerated emotional responses, to name a few). If I wanted to wait two hours while a friend does their hair before we went clubbing, I'd go out with a girl.

Also, I don't consider being a total bitch to be entirely humorous, regardless of what's between your legs. And it seems to me a lot of queens disagree with me, because snark is their main form of communication. It just gets old. You're WITTY. WE GET IT.

All that being said, if a guy is effeminate, more power to him, and I wouldn't want him to change. I have nothing against them, there is just a lot about "campy" gay culture that I would find annoying regardless of my own sexual orientation.

[RaRa]

Originally Posted by Eric

I don't think girly gay dudes are a detriment to equality rights at all. In fact, locally, those are really the only ones who actively participate in LGBT-related events. They're louder and prouder than masculine guys to me.

This. Masculine gay men owe a lot to feminine gay men imo.

[TheRoof]

personally, as a feminine guy (although i don't consider myself as a flamer), i get offended when people say feminine guys are the ultimate detriment to the queer community. we are who we are, and just because someone is more feminine than the other, doesn't mean that someone should be discriminated against, and get blamed for all the hate and prejudices. plus, in the bible, there wasn't anything that said "homosexuality is wrong only because of feminine gays". religious conservatives/fundamentalists/whatevers are going to still argue that homosexuality is wrong, regardless of feminine-masculine spectrum.
but that's just my two cents. i just wish that people would stop giving all the crap to feminine gays, just because they are the more visibly noticeable part of the entire community.

[Beachboi92]

I think effeminate guys are some of the strongest people i have met. I like caddy humor and wit so i am not bothered by it even in most of the more serious cases, in fact i enjoy a good session of over the top gay antics every once in a while. It does bother me however when anyone male or female displays those characteristics that are stereotypical of the popular high school bitch. I don't like people packed with drama, 2 facedness, the "OMG *SCREEEEACH*" running hug to their friend type who then will go and bitch about said friend to another "friend." Essentially i don't like Mean girls (except the movie but mean girls 2 was terrible).

Butch women and effeminate men are not responsible for setting back the LGBT movement. People who use them to stereotype gays as a whole are responsible. People who say i like gay people but i don't like "over the top" gay people are responsible. People who sit there and say "oh i don't like how they always rub their sexuality in my face" are responsible. We are just living our lives and we don't get the luxury of having an assumed sexual/gender identity, and we don't worry about gender stereotypes as much because we just want to be us and we want to be happy and there is nothing wrong with that.

It's people who judge people with bias and ignorance that are responsible. Because the right thing to do would be to judge someone for the content of their character regardless of gender, orientation, skin color, etc.

And another thing, as gay people we are not responsible for "representing" all gay people. I am not fucking responsible for making sure no one hates gays, screw that, i am going to be myself and act in the way I like, and in a way that makes ME happy. If other people don't like it then screw them. It has nothing to do with my sexuality it has everything to do simply with who i am as a person regardless of all the labels.

Blaming people who fit stereotypes for making their group look bad is like blaming a girl in a mini skirt for being raped. The fault lies with the person who is being ignorant, and judging unjustly not with the person who fits the stereotype, besides there isn't anything wrong with breaking gender norms. It is a fucking major part of the LGBT rights movement...

[Aya McCabre]

Invisibility never helped any cause. If all gay people behave like straight people then we get nowhere. The queer movement has support from straight people largely because they have queer friends or relatives. Statistically, everyone knows someone who is queer, but not everyone knows that they know someone who is queer. But if they knew then they might be more supportive of us or consider it more normal. So really the more obviously gay someone is the better it is for our visibility and therefore our cause.

[thedreamwatch]

Originally Posted by Aya McCabre

Invisibility never helped any cause. If all gay people behave like straight people then we get nowhere. The queer movement has support from straight people largely because they have queer friends or relatives. Statistically, everyone knows someone who is queer, but not everyone knows that they know someone who is queer. But if they knew then they might be more supportive of us or consider it more normal. So really the more obviously gay someone is the better it is for our visibility and therefore our cause.

I didn't even think of that, good call. Letting people know that they know and love LGBT'ers probably is good for our cause.

As for the original question, it's like the guy in the video said, we're all stronger together than we are if we let ourselves separate.

[Wonderless]

I dont think it matters. Were all people. And that could also mean more hate centered diversity for people who are transexual

[Mr.Pushover]

I wish we could build a bridge and get over this. Some gays are feminine, some aren't. Big deal. Let people be who they are and don't worry about it.

Which is basically what @Wonderless said except more harshly.

[maverick]

Originally Posted by HauntedLithium

I wish we could build a bridge and get over this. Some gays are feminine, some aren't. Big deal. Let people be who they are and don't worry about it.

Which is basically what @Wonderless said except more harshly.

Yeah, I'm kinda pro "Let people do whatever the hell they want, as long as it doesn't hurt anything or anyone."

Annoyance does not equal harm.

[midwestblues]

A detriment to gay equality?? The gay equality movement wouldn't even exist without them.

[RedState]

Do I think that femmes are a detriment to gay equality. No...there is no reason why they should be...as long as they are genuine in their actions.

If it is in someone's nature to be a femme that's fine, that's who they are and they should run with it.

But the people (and I know quite a few) that simply try to be so obnoxiously femme simply just to piss other people off..well I have a problem with that...I think that gives gay folks a bad rap.

[Pepsi]

"Are so-called 'feminine' gays a detriment to gay equality?"
As others have already stated I think the only detriment lies in the ignorant person themselves.

"Would the gay community still receive the same amount of discrimination if all gay guys were masculine?"
Again I agree with others that it would be just as bad.

"Would you prefer there to be less 'feminine' gays?"
No, I would only prefer that everyone not feel they have to hide any part of their personality because I'm sure there are a lot of effeminate men that hide certain aspects of their personalities for their images sake.


Also, I hate bitchy gay guys, and I've known a fair share. However, I also hate bitchy straight girls, bitchy straight guys, and bitchy lesbians. Being effeminate has nothing to do with being a bitch though. My dad's partner is honestly one of the most effeminate men, if not the most effeminate, man I have ever met. He's also one of the sweetest and kindest people I've ever met. I'm only bringing that up because I think a lot of people associate effeminate men with bitchy men and that just isn't fair.

[MyDecember]

If anything the media is a detriment to gay equality. There is a fair amount of discrimination in the gay community but its not a detriment to equality.

Honestly, I really never thought about this as an issue. There are femm guys in every sub-culture in the gay community. The guy in the video is funny, I watch his stuff but he got mad off of people trolling on Youtube. I think he mistook and exagerated preference for distaste in his video.

This is my favorite video of his. I crack up every time.

[Owen]

Honestly, if there weren't effeminate gay guys, there probably wouldn't be much cultural change in regards to views on the GLBT community. I can only speak for myself, but as a masculine gay guy, I often use the fact that I can "pass under the gaydar" to my advantage. Though I do wear pride paraphernalia when I'm in a place where I feel comfortable being open about being gay, there are still times when I don't feel comfortable being that open, and during those times, I will use my masculine tendencies to avoid setting off people's gaydars.

But if every member of our community was only open about who they are when they felt comfortable being so, we would never expand the boundaries of that communal comfort zone. That's where the effeminate gay guys come in. Because they can't pass under the gaydar as easily as we can, they're forced to make their sexuality an issue in situations where they might not be comfortable doing so. But it's often those situations where we need to make the most social progress, so by not hiding who they are, they expand the boundaries (battlegrounds may be a better word) into those territories where we are still fighting for acceptance.

The effeminate gay guys I do dislike generally fall into one or both of two categories:

1. The ones who flaunt it. I don't mean guys who flaunt their sexuality; I mean guys who flaunt the fact that they are effeminate. The ones who get in your face about how effeminate they are, the kind who taunt their masculine brethren for not being proud enough to show off who they are. Just because they are often discriminated against for being effeminate doesn't give them the right to exaggerate it more than they would otherwise; it's no better than me putting on a lumberjack's outfit and getting in their face by showing off how masculine I am.

2. The ones who embody characteristics I find detestable in anyone, regardless of sexuality, gender, and mannerisms. I don't care whether someone's male or female, gay or straight, feminine or masculine; I think anyone who's bitchy, caddy, melodramatic, shallow, materialistic, judgmental, obsessively fanatical, inauthentic, or overly boisterous is a detriment to the human race as a whole, not just the gay community. But that's just my opinion, and people like different things in others, so I wouldn't go so far as to say I wish these kinds of people didn't exist or that there were fewer of them.

[TheInquisitor]

Would the gay community still recieve the same amount of discrimination if all gay guys were masculine?

I think this is the wrong question. It's like asking in the 60s if blacks would receive the same amount of discrimination if they didn't listen to soul music. You don't pander to the prejudiced.

Originally Posted by maverick

any gender-atypical behavior, especially in adults, makes some heterosexual adults uncomfortable.

Indeed, and this goes beyond the LGBT community. A straight person acting outside the supposed gender roles is also shunned or disrespected by some people. Like a male nurse or a female boxer.

Originally Posted by Beachboi92

It's people who judge people with bias and ignorance that are responsible. Because the right thing to do would be to judge someone for the content of their character regardless of gender, orientation, skin color, etc.

And another thing, as gay people we are not responsible for "representing" all gay people. I am not fucking responsible for making sure no one hates gays

I couldn't have said it better. The main problem with these kind of prejudices is judging an entire arbitrary group of people by a few in that group. That is the ignorance that needs to be addressed. Judge people as individuals. Pandering to people's prejudices and conforming to how they want you to be can only make things worse.

[Moonstrike]

I'm glad so many of you agree with me but I hope no one is holding back their opinion for fear of angering the majority.

I think the video is really good and if any of you guys didnt watch it, you should.

[Owen]

Originally Posted by Moonstrike

...but I hope no one is holding back their opinion for fear of angering the majority.

I don't think you need to worry too much. There are some members here who I know will say exactly what they think if they have something to say, regardless of what others think of them as a result. (I'm one of them, but my opinions are rarely revolutionary.) If the dissenting opinion is represented among these members, we will learn of it in time.