What do you consider a virgin?

[pianomike]

So i was having a discussion with a friend and we were talking about this. IE, If you have had oral sex, are you a virgin?
What are your thoughts?

[radiantdawn]

Though oral sex is considered sex... I only consider someone to be a virgin when they have not had vaginal/anal sex... To me they're still like virgins if they've had oral sex or whatever ._. For some weird reason... My logic is weird >_>

[roborama]

honestly i think everyones definition is different but to me yes oral counts

but then again im a lesbian soooo

[Kidd]

I only count anal/vaginal penetration. Oral isn't really anything, in my opinion.

[Zontar]

My definition, to be all-inclusive, is just any kind of contact involving the genitals with another person. This is pretty much the definition that the CDC used when tallying "age of first sexual experience" since the definition of losing one's virginity varies widely. Keep in mind that lesbians don't penetrate, and not all gay men enjoy anal sex.

To be perfectly frank, I've even considered just saying you're a non-virgin when someone brings you to orgasm. That's a more accurate depiction of things across the board.

[roborama]

Originally Posted by Zontar

To be perfectly frank, I've even considered just saying you're a non-virgin when someone brings you to orgasm. That's a more accurate depiction of things across the board.

i completely second this

[Idonteven]

Originally Posted by Kidd

I only count anal/vaginal penetration. Oral isn't really anything, in my opinion.

this ^

[Ianthe]

Mostly I don't think "virginity" is a very useful concept, especially when it is used to define people. It's silly to define people by something they haven't done.

But, to whatever extent we want to use this term, a virgin is someone who has never had sex.

"Sex" is any contact with another person's genitals, or contact of your genitals by another person, pursuant to orgasm.

("Pursuant to" means that there is an intent achieve orgasm, whether or not it's actually accomplished.)

Insisting on penetration for sex not only devalues lesbian sex, in straight sex it marginalizes the female orgasm--most women don't orgasm from penetration, and under definitions that require penetration, things people do in order for the woman to orgasm are considered less significant, not real sex.

I tend to regard more limited definitions of sex as invitations to hypocrisy.

I've heard religious girls say it "isn't really sex" unless there is penile-vaginal penetration. Some of them will have anal sex ( ! ), but not vaginal, because they are "saving themselves for marriage."

Then, they will say that "gay sex" is a mortal sin, even though they do everything the gay people do, and by their own definition, gay people never have sex! They're crazy!

[Ghostly]

I guess it would depend if u were recieving it or giving it, I think if u were the one recieving oral sex then u would not really be a virgin anymore, but the person giving it would probably be more vrigin? 0_0 but I guess not since they already started sexual activity.

[roborama]

Originally Posted by Idonteven

this ^

hey guys so i guess my sex doesnt count, well isnt that just great

[Lychee]

Originally Posted by Idonteven

this ^

Yep, I agree also.

[theJosephDean]

Originally Posted by hdryjo

i completely second this

Ditto.

[Owen]

To me, virginity is more of a state of mind than anything having to do with what you have done physically. When used more generally/colloquially, it is often used to mean someone who is naïve, innocent, and/or inexperienced in some matter. So to me, the word "virgin" denotes someone with a lack of sexual experience in general. So, if one restricts the definition to vaginal/anal sex, one ignores the fact that oral sex or--for the lack of a more formal term--hand jobs are still sexual experiences, because they involve the sexual arousal of one or both people.

So how to make the definition more inclusive? I say that someone loses their virginity when another person causes them to orgasm, in any way. Once that happens, the person has some experience in sexual matters, and can't be considered inexperienced or innocent. This definition does preclude someone who is, perhaps, on the receiving end or anal sex or the giving end of a hand job or oral sex, but I think once you reach the point where you partner is orgasming, you own orgasm should follow pretty quickly. If it doesn't, I think self-categorization as a virgin or non-virgin is the least of your concerns.

In other words...

Originally Posted by theJosephDean

Ditto.

I fourth this.

Originally Posted by Ianthe

"Sex" is any contact with another person's genitals, or contact of your genitals by another person, pursuant to orgasm.

("Pursuant to" means that there is an intent achieve orgasm, whether or not it's actually accomplished.)

Clearly, by my definition, I disagree with this. A friend of mine and I once developed the term "half virgin" to describe someone who has engaged in activities with someone else that could have resulted in them having an orgasm, but didn't (like me). When I talked about virginity being about experience, I think the experience that is key to the concept of virginity is the orgasm itself, so if you haven't experience an orgasm caused by someone else, you don't have all the experience one accrues though a sexual encounter. Of course, you do have some of the experience, which is why we use the term "half virgin".

Sure, the choice of "half" as the fraction to describe how much experience one has is completely arbitrary, but it's the most popular fraction out there, and "half virgin" roles off the tongue more easily than "fractional virgin".

[Flyers2011]

I think you're a virgin until you've gone past feeling someone up. Anything that involves genital contact, and with the intention of giving (or receiving) an orgasm is sex in my book.

[EM68]

Originally Posted by Flyers2011

I think you're a virgin until you've gone past feeling someone up. Anything that involves genital contact, and with the intention of giving (or receiving) an orgasm is sex in my book.

I totally agree with this. I believe that oral sex IS sex. So whether you give or receive then you are no longer a virgin.

[Ianthe]

Originally Posted by Gamer am I

To me, virginity is more of a state of mind than anything having to do with what you have done physically. When used more generally/colloquially, it is often used to mean someone who is naïve, innocent, and/or inexperienced in some matter. So to me, the word "virgin" denotes someone with a lack of sexual experience in general. So, if one restricts the definition to vaginal/anal sex, one ignores the fact that oral sex or--for the lack of a more formal term--hand jobs are still sexual experiences, because they involve the sexual arousal of one or both people.

So how to make the definition more inclusive? I say that someone loses their virginity when another person causes them to orgasm, in any way. Once that happens, the person has some experience in sexual matters, and can't be considered inexperienced or innocent. This definition does preclude someone who is, perhaps, on the receiving end or anal sex or the giving end of a hand job or oral sex, but I think once you reach the point where you partner is orgasming, you own orgasm should follow pretty quickly. If it doesn't, I think self-categorization as a virgin or non-virgin is the least of your concerns.

In other words...

I fourth this.

Clearly, by my definition, I disagree with this. A friend of mine and I once developed the term "half virgin" to describe someone who has engaged in activities with someone else that could have resulted in them having an orgasm, but didn't (like me). When I talked about virginity being about experience, I think the experience that is key to the concept of virginity is the orgasm itself, so if you haven't experience an orgasm caused by someone else, you don't have all the experience one accrues though a sexual encounter. Of course, you do have some of the experience, which is why we use the term "half virgin".

Sure, the choice of "half" as the fraction to describe how much experience one has is completely arbitrary, but it's the most popular fraction out there, and "half virgin" roles off the tongue more easily than "fractional virgin".

Under your definition, it is possible to become pregnant without having sex. In fact, by your definition, virgin motherhood is very common. It is not unusual for women to be unable to reach orgasm until their mid-twenties, although they may have had quite a lot of sex before that, and even multiple children.

Virgin prostitutes (under your definition of virginity) who've had hundreds of partners are also more common than seems reasonable. (In my understanding, female prostitutes rarely orgasm with their clients.)

Stone butches who don't orgasm with their partners, but take great satisfaction and pleasure in bringing their partners to orgasm, under your definition remain virgins forever. (I assure you, they regard their sexual experiences as authentic and meaningful, and would find the suggestion that they are virgins ridiculous, and possibly offensive.)

Under your definition, you can have sex with someone who is not having sex with you, which is logically absurd.

Orgasm is a very pleasurable experience, but not the only sexual experience that counts.

As to the idea of fractional virginity: virginity carries the connotation of untouched, flawless purity. Like a blank page. A page that is only half blank, is not blank.

This is not to say that one's first orgasm with a partner is not a significant experience, and a landmark in one's life. But I don't think it's the only way to lose one's virginity.

[MusicIsLife]

Someone who hasn't done the horizontal happydance.

In other words, I do consider people who have taken part in oral sex but not...penetration? as a virgin.

[adam88]

I consider a virgin to be a woman whose hymen is intact. Medically (and historically) this has been the definition.

The whole "are you still a virgin if you've only done oral?" debate is silly and pointless. Just get rid of the word, enjoy whatever sex you're having (none in my case) and get on with you freaking lives. Ugh,.

[ok455]

I agree i only consider someone a virgin when they did not had any anal/vaginal penetration. I consider oral sex a form of masturbation its like getting someone else to jerk you off.

[roborama]

Originally Posted by ok455

I agree i only consider someone a virgin when they did not had any anal/vaginal penetration. I consider oral sex a form of masturbation its like getting someone else to jerk you off.

just a question.. how do you suppose you do that? hand jobs/fingering yeah i get it but how on earth is oral like masturbation. maybe youre just that flexible i dont know