1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Bible & homosexuality

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by JudasKissedHIM, Jun 2, 2011.

  1. JudasKissedHIM

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2010
    Messages:
    127
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Johannesburg, South Africa
    What exactly does the Bible say about homosexuality? I heard it only explicitly bans homosexuality in one part, but it’s in the same chapter (sorry I don’t know what it’s called in English) that bans eating pork, some seafood’s, etc.?

    And my grandpa always says he can eat pork now because, while it was banned in the Old Testament, something happened in the New Testament that 'unbanned' it? So why are only those few verses ‘unbanned’ and not the rest?

    (P.S- I'm not that familiar with the Bible, so I might really just have this really wrong. But you can help me, right? :icon_bigg )
     
  2. malachite

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2009
    Messages:
    2,769
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    Orlando
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Leviticus 18:22
    "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."

    funny though read my signature and check those out, kinda funny
     
  3. Mogget

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2010
    Messages:
    2,397
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    New England
    In the First Testament, Leviticus, yes, but also by implication Exodus 20:14, as biblical marriage is always between a man and (at least one) woman, "adultery" being traditionally understood to include fornication.

    In the New Testament there are several passages that can be interpreted to forbid homosexuality.

    In my opinion, the Bible, First and New Testaments, is anti-homosexuality. Sexual purity in Jewish culture meant sex only within the confines of (heterosexual) marriage, to the point where masturbation was forbidden and nocturnal emissions rendered men ritually unclean. Paul's views (and pseudo-Paul in the case of, among others, I and II Timothy) on sex were very much Jewish.

    The idea that because Jesus never says anything about homosexuality in the Gospels* means he was fine with it is is flawed. In general, if Jesus doesn't say something about a particular topic, he probably supported current Jewish practice regarding it. My interpretation of the Gospels is that Jesus did not, as Paul believed, seek to overturn the Law dictated in the Torah, hence his saying that he came "not come to abolish [the Law and Prophets], but to fulfill them" and his command be more righteous than the Pharisees (Matthew 5:17-20).

    The Pharisees, for context, believed in following not only the laws commanded to every Jew, but also the Levitical laws, which at the time applied only to priests. They were zealous in obeying ever jot and tittle of the Law, including the portions devoted to sexual purity.

    *Arguable, see my link to Wikipedia above
     
  4. Revan

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2005
    Messages:
    7,850
    Likes Received:
    34
    Location:
    Canada
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    I find those people who said they've been in heaven and hell when they briefly died. I think it's a load of crock s**t. And I personally don't believe a word of the Bible. I believe in my faith, that's it.
     
  5. aidan

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2011
    Messages:
    272
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Walsall, United Kingdom
    it's all just jibba jabba
     
  6. Just Passing

    Full Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2011
    Messages:
    541
    Likes Received:
    0
    I find the Bible so inconsistent. It says love thy neighbour and forgive our sins, but supposedly despise Homosexuality.

    Yeah people, you should've tried harder with setting the rules for your Holy Book. No offence.
     
  7. malachite

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2009
    Messages:
    2,769
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    Orlando
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    it also says slavery is ok, in fact it has rules how beat your slaves and how to sell your kids into slavery.
     
  8. Just Passing

    Full Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2011
    Messages:
    541
    Likes Received:
    0
    Wow. :eusa_doh:

    It's been a long time since I had to read any of the Bible, but damn...
     
  9. Ethan

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2010
    Messages:
    2,447
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Metro Detroit, Michigan
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    :eusa_whis
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  10. ilovedogs9

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2011
    Messages:
    0
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    usa
    Gender:
    Other
    Gender Pronoun:
    Other
    Sexual Orientation:
    Other
    Out Status:
    Not out at all
    That was great. But honestly, if people who follow the bible word-for-word believe that homosexuality is "not natural", what about the snake talking to Adam and Eve, or the sea parting for Moses and all those people to walk on the ocean floor? Last I checked, those don't quite follow the laws of nature, unless of course I've been somewhere else all my life.
     
  11. KatKut

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2010
    Messages:
    130
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Europe
    Gender:
    Male
    I love your signature :thumbsup:(*hug*)

    ---------- Post added 2nd Jun 2011 at 02:54 PM ----------

    I understand people who believe in God(I personally do)
    but I can't understand those who belive in christianism or any other hateful,sadistic and bloody religion
     
  12. Ridiculous

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2010
    Messages:
    3,583
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    New Zealand
    The bible was written about 2 thousand years ago, in a language that no longer exists for a population that couldn't read.

    I don't put much weight on what it says.
     
  13. Ralf

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2009
    Messages:
    0
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Birmingham, UK
    Oooh I love blabbing on about this :slight_smile:

    the main references are:

    Leviticus 18:22 - "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination"

    Leviticus 20:13 - "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them"

    1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God"

    Romans 1:26-28 - "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper"

    Leviticus is one of the most boring books in the bible: FACT. He had no life tbh...
    He said that one can't eat Shellfish, Lobsters, can't mix fabrics etc etc, the list is a long one.


    To be frank, hating on gays is almost definately sinning more than just letting them be. The fact is, we live our day-to-day lives in a completely different way from what is said in the bible. If homosexuality was really that important to avoid doing, it would be in the 10 commandments...
    Hatred is what the bible is trying to tell people to avoid doing, so in theory, any christians who claim to hate gays shouldn't really hate on anyone, especially the minorities.
     
  14. Ben

    Ben
    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2008
    Messages:
    1,301
    Likes Received:
    0
    There are many many books on this which manage to, in one way or another, bring together the scriptures and homosexuality. I've never looked deeply into the Hebrew and surrounding debates of the relevant OT passages, but I'm sure there are numerous disagreements in interpretation. Obviously context plays a massive role in all of this—who is the passage aimed at? What is the cultural context? etc.
    From what I have read, and admittedly I am not an expert on this (nor do I agree with a lot of queer theology that I have seen), it is extremely possible to be intimately knowledgeable with the scriptures and not to struggle with reconciling religion and sexuality. To me, blindly reading the scriptures to condemn homosexuality draws some parallels with blindly reading the scriptures to condemn the whole religion. It goes a lot deeper than that. I intend to become a lot more familiar with LGBT theology in the coming years and am waiting until then to draw such bold conclusions about Christianity.
     
  15. Pseudojim

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2009
    Messages:
    2,868
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Australia
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    The bible is very clear in many instances about how negative it is toward homosexuality. Allow me to quote myself...
     
  16. Shevanel

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2008
    Messages:
    5,403
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Little Neck, NY
    I'm Catholic and I don't think the Bible is all too much relevant to the world of today.
     
  17. Pseudojim

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2009
    Messages:
    2,868
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Australia
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    ya.

    Oh, and that's a mixture of old and new testament. Strangely enough, the part where it describes homosexuals as being 'worthy of death' is in the new testament.

    ---------- Post added 3rd Jun 2011 at 06:48 PM ----------

    Well, it's either completely anti-homosexual, or else (given the number of explicitly homophobic verses) completely self-contradicting... right?
     
    #17 Pseudojim, Jun 3, 2011
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2011
  18. Raeil

    Full Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2011
    Messages:
    365
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Missouri
    As a former Christian, when I accepted that I was gay I also realized most of my friends would believe I was a non-repenting sinner. I believed I was, up until the point when I accepted it, so I decided to research it myself. Simply put, I'm of the belief that being gay is not forbidden by Christian standards. First, Leviticus is not useful in discussions, because the word abomination is used with the exact same context to describe eating shrimp, and in the NT, the shrimp thing was absolved of guilt. Second, Paul's views have two main problems which render them unusable. Mainly, he states that women teaching men is a sin, and every church I've ever been to completely ignores this rule. Also, several of his teachings are highly Judaic in nature, and there is great likelihood that his teaching on homosexuality is Judaic, and not Christian in nature. And that finishes all the references to it in the Bible!

    "For The Bible Tells Me So" is a fantastic documentary to watch if you're looking for more info on this topic, and it does so with a lot more time and proof than I have given here. Of course, I did say "former" Christian in my first sentence, so I don't really care what the Bible says one way or another, but a lot of my friends do, so I make the effort for them.
     
  19. Ben

    Ben
    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2008
    Messages:
    1,301
    Likes Received:
    0
    Just on the Leviticus 18:22 issue, there're discussions about the ambiguity of the phrasing—there's a Hebrew term which doesn't appear anywhere else in the same structure as in that passage, which probably means something a bit awkward like "lie to the lyings of". It would be unusual to adopt this term instead of using something a lot simpler. Also, one of the terms used for the man involved in the act is 'zakar', which is more likely to be associated with a holy man, i.e. a priest. Then there's the issue of the word 'abomination', which may be describing something that is likely to cause a negative reaction in the surrounding community (i.e. spitting is also described as an abomination).
    So the passage could be saying "if a holy man is lay down by a man, this is an act which is not looked upon fondly by the surrounding community". Also, we can draw in the context of the text as a whole or of negative attitudes towards submissive male temple prostitutes…

    Raeil pointed out other discussions in Paul's writings and the way that many 'rules' (or guidelines) covered in scriptures are historically disregarded anyway.
     
  20. Pseudojim

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2009
    Messages:
    2,868
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Australia
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Also, i feel apologetics that try to mitigate the blatant homophobia existent throughout multiple books of the bible are clutching at straws.