Stereotypes

Well, I just realized there was a tool to search the forums but my computer kept not responding each time I clicked it so I decided to give up. There may be a post about stereotypes already but I am not sure.

Anyway, I was having coffee with my father this morning out on our porch. This couple walked out of their home and once they drove away this is how our conversation went
HIM: "Did you know those were both girls?"
ME:"Well it looked like a man and a women but its none of my business"
HIM:"In lesbian relationships there is ALWAYS a butch woman and one girly woman" his tone was filled with disgust. (one reason I still haven't came out to him)
Now, I am still young, so I am not sure about the dynamics of lesbian relationships but I am pretty sure there could be two feminine girls or two not feminine girls right?

[Mr.Pushover]

The whole stereotype card is being played way too much. Things aren't 'always' true about any one specific group of people. The stereotype for a family is a mom, dad, 2.5 probably straight children. That didn't happen now did it?
People are people, that's all.

[Kidd]

Yes, I know both a Butch-Butch couple and a Fem-Fem couple at my GSA. Stereotypes are almost never accurate.

[Owen]

The butch-feminine scale is a tricky thing. A person is rarely all the way to one side or the other; most people have some level of both traits, even though one level may be higher than the other. For that reason, it might be accurate to say that one partner is often more butch/more feminine than the other (though not always noticeably so), but to say that there is always one butch woman and one feminine woman in a pairing is completely absurd. Such a statement lacks relative-ness and can thus only deal in absolutes, and women are who are absolutely feminine or absolutely butch are quite rare. And even disregarding all that, such distinctions are, when you get down to it, really quite useless.

But I'm rambling and getting abstract again. In short, the answer to your final question is yes.

Edit: And on another note, butch-butch/fem-fem/butch-fem relationships are all also possible on the male side of the gay persuasion, as I have witnessed first-hand.

[Monica]

I never hold sterotypes to be true. I am nearly 14, but I have known that I'm gay for about 3 years. I am with my very first girlfriend. She is Bi and kind of indie/punk. But I fly so far below the gay-dar some people don't believe me when I tell them that I'm gay. I live in Wisconsin, and I am kind of the girl-next-door type. I love to shop, but I am certainly not a "femme". I also enjoy sports of all kinds, but I am too girly to be "butch". I am actually just really, really normal. I'm just, you know, a lesbain.

[AtmaWeapon]

My mom once said the same exact thing to me years ago before I came out to her or myself.

It's definitely not true. I also think the butch-femme dichotomy is too dated to be useful (though speaking as someone who could be considered "soft-butch" though I tend to play the androgyny card, but ultimately I am just me). A woman is a woman is a woman. I think there, in some classes, has been a tendency for some to reject anything that might seem "butch" because of the homophobic slant against butch-femme couples as conveyed in your father's words.

I think it really sucks that people have that attitude, but what can you do? But if someone feels happier coming off butch or femme or however and wherever in between or coming off as something to be uncategorized, I say let them do that for themselves.

I really just wish more people would agree with me (to sound pompous, but I stand by my convictions) that a woman is a woman is a woman and her femininity is as valid as any other woman's whether we are talking about a woman who would be called butch or femme.

[steel03]

Isn't the point of being gay that we are attracted to the qualities typically displayed by our own gender? So why on earth would it be impossible to have two feminine lesbians in a relationship if they are both attracted to the other's typically female qualities (not saying, of course, that butch lesbians can't be attractive)? It just seems like even a totally ignorant mind would be able to make that logical leap. Anyway, all the lesbians I've known well haven't struck me as butch, but they also certainly have not been feminine. They're just people! Why do we need to classify every tiny little detail?!

[Austin]

Stereotypes do have some truth usually. But idk about this particular one.

[Beachboi92]

Stereotypes are all bullshit. A stereotype exists because someone sees something outside of the norm or that stands out like a butch fem lesbian couple, or a fem acting gay guy, or a lazy black person etc. Also often times the reason these things stick out is because the person observing already expects the stereotype because they have been taught from a young age that it is true.

These things that stand out more, or fit the persons already held beliefs stick out and continue to form a basis for this to continue occurring, thus reinforcing the stereotype.

You can also think of it this way. A couple of lesbians who are both feminine may often be perceived as "just friends" or something besides a lesbian couple. A masculine gay man is never perceived as being gay they simply go under the radar as normal, where the feminine gay man is immediately perceived as gay and lumped into the stereotype. This can happen even if say the butch/femme couple is really just two friend and one of them is straight, or the feminine acting boy is actually bi/straight and just does not act typical (even straight cross dressers exist so i think feminine acting straight boys isn't a crazy idea).

Basically stereotypes are bullshit. besides that who's to say the stereotypes are bad. Whats wrong with the femme/butch relationships, what's wrong with the femme gay boy?

[Just Passing]

Stereotypes are irritating and often overplayed by the media, but sometimes they are true.

But as a gay guy, I am pretty straight in terms of how I act.

[Nevermind]

Originally Posted by lulu165

Well, I just realized there was a tool to search the forums but my computer kept not responding each time I clicked it so I decided to give up. There may be a post about stereotypes already but I am not sure.

Anyway, I was having coffee with my father this morning out on our porch. This couple walked out of their home and once they drove away this is how our conversation went
HIM: "Did you know those were both girls?"
ME:"Well it looked like a man and a women but its none of my business"
HIM:"In lesbian relationships there is ALWAYS a butch woman and one girly woman" his tone was filled with disgust. (one reason I still haven't came out to him)
Now, I am still young, so I am not sure about the dynamics of lesbian relationships but I am pretty sure there could be two feminine girls or two not feminine girls right?

Of course, or two girls that aren't particularly butch or femme.

[Holmes]

Originally Posted by steel03

Isn't the point of being gay that we are attracted to the qualities typically displayed by our own gender? So why on earth would it be impossible to have two feminine lesbians in a relationship if they are both attracted to the other's typically female qualities (not saying, of course, that butch lesbians can't be attractive)? It just seems like even a totally ignorant mind would be able to make that logical leap. Anyway, all the lesbians I've known well haven't struck me as butch, but they also certainly have not been feminine. They're just people! Why do we need to classify every tiny little detail?!

There is no such thing as the point of being gay, at least in the way that sounds. But being gay simply means that one is attracted to their own sex, so there can be quite a range within that. Camp men who like other camp men, camp men who like butch men, butch men who like other butch men, butch men who like camp men, those who are somewhere in between who like... and so on, and similarly for gay women.

As to traits typical by our own gender, I wouldn't fancy that typical straight man, I don't want to hear about football.

In many gay relationships, if you step back for a minute, you can break it down one more masculine, one more feminine, put that's usually simplistic. I'd say when I had a boyfriend, there were some ways where I was more feminine, other ways where he was. I don't think you can subdivide the gay world into butch on one side of the hall, femme on the other, who will match up when the music plays. Someone could be the the more femme in one relationship and the more butch in another. Lex here makes the comparison to height, someone of average height doesn't always play the role of the tall one. And I really think gay couples are that conscious of the distinctions before getting together.

[steel03]

I'm sorry, but there absolutely is a point to being gay, and the point is exactly what I said it is. You say there's no "point," then you turn right around and say that being gay "means" something. That's exactly the same thing; it's just semantics. I agree with you, I was just using some steps I think would be pretty easy to logically make to show that there is no reason to think anyone should or shouldn't be with anyone else.