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Female VS Male Sexual Orientation

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by silvousplait, Jun 26, 2011.

  1. silvousplait

    silvousplait Guest

    I'm not sure that there is a post on this because sometimes on the site it is hard to find something if you don't know the specific post name.

    However, I feel that as an American teenager, female homosexuality is less frowned upon by the general public than male sexuality. Is this just an illusion? I am curious because most straight guys find it extremely attractive if they encounter a lesbian, while less females have that same reaction.

    I am confused that if it is just an illusion, why it is so perpetuated. In the media, TV shows, and movies, it's okay to be a lesbian, but not okay to be a gay man. Any ideas about this?
     
  2. Pseudojim

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    Both of the last two girls i have slept with were quite turned on by two males being intimate
     
  3. GuardianKitten

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    Female homosexuality is more objectified, male homosexuality is shoved down.


    and i know a lot of straght women who really like gay boys (um, yaoi anyone?)
     
  4. Maddy

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    Lesbians seem to be more sexualised in the media. That doesn't mean being more accepted. Lesbian characters in the media tend to be either fanservice-y model types who have a brief lesbian relationship for the Storyline Of The Week and then goes right back to guys when her girlfriend is killed off, or the Psycho Lesbian type, neither of which I'd say is particularly progressive.
     
  5. silvousplait

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    I agree they're more sexualized, but what I mean is that even in high school, it seems to be more okay for females to be bisexual/homosexual. I'm not sure because maybe my school was different, but homosexual females in my school were always fine and never made fun of. However, I had to deal with taunts every day from both genders. FYI, I came from NY. Was this unique to my school?
     
  6. GuardianKitten

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    Probably not. Girls get away with it from guys, but the female circle is a really bitchy place to be
     
  7. haelmarie

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    Haha, this is exactly it I think. The media industry is still incredibly male-focused.

    I think as men's tastes control most of the media, the sexually titillating image of two girls being together as "hot" tends to be more widely propagated throughout television, movies, video games and music. As the sexual desires of women are less widely portrayed, the image of two men being together is less common. Therefore heterosexual men are not afraid to say things like "lesbians are hot" because the media plays this trope quite widely; I have never seen a female in popular media say a similar thing. This is something of a complex issue, I think, and probably draws on a fixation with male sexual gratification over female as well as the general perception that a woman who actively craves sexual satisfaction is kind of weird.

    Although I would not go so far as to say that "women", as some amorphous being, find male homosexuality less appealing - there seems to be a wide female following of gay soap opera couples and slash fanfiction.
     
  8. Maddy

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    Some girls might be able to cruise through coming out, but that's most definitely not the case for all. Sure, if a girl's considered good-looking by guys, those guys might think "I like that so it's acceptable" and not bully her. They might also get into some pretty unpleasant sexual harrassment, as I've seen happen to a few girls (the kind of "I could change your mind" or "give us a show" thing). And the girls who aren't considered attractive can get it pretty badly from guys as well as girls. A lot of girls can get realy nasty when another girl comes out, too - I lost most of my female friends when I came out. The fact that some guys think two (conventionally attractive) girls together is hot doesn't mean that your average lesbian or bi girl has an easy time coming out.

    (sorry, berserk button, I'm just sick of being told that the homophobia I've faced is invalid because some guys think two attractive girls together is hot.)
     
  9. steel03

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    I think it's two sides of the same homophobic coin. It's like sexism. Look at Sarah Palin and Hillary Clinton. Palin is constantly objectified by piggish men, and people think for some reason that her looks somehow determine that she wouldn't be a good politician (her intellect does that just fine on its own). And Clinton gets exactly the opposite: people call her ugly and matronly and old, and think that that for some reason determines that she's a bad politician. It's sexist both ways.
    The same is true here. Lesbians get treated like Sarah Palin (super hot but ultimately unhealthy) and gays get treated like Hillary Clinton (unattractive and unproductive). Both homophobia.
     
  10. silvousplait

    silvousplait Guest

    I liked this response. I believe that you are probably correct about this. However, what I am saying is not that is better to be a female homosexual, but that in comparison to male homosexuals, more people would have a problem with the male homosexuals. Not that we particularly have more problems/opposition than females, but it just seems that as we are men, I would assume the reason for us being viewed (at least in my mind) as worse is because we are indeed men. Again, I'm not saying that females don't get harassed.

    I don't know about anyone else here, but to me it seems that most people (men and women) believe that men will generally be more interested in sex than emotional attachment. I've also gotten the impression from many Americans that they believe women are more pure than men.
     
  11. bookworm43

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    I agree with the comment regarding female bitchiness- among straight girls, being a lesbian is more of a problem than being a gay male. But its the exact opposite for straight males- lesbians are good and gay males are gross. So in other words, you're absolutely right. And the reason that this is perpetuated is because so many people are too ignorant. But that's slowly changing as gays and lesbians and all LGBTers gain rights- like how we can get married in NY now
     
  12. steel03

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    Yes, I agree with that. Society is generally more okay with lesbians. I think there just aren't as many stereotypes about them.
     
  13. mnguy

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    I think this might go back to the time when men were pretty much the ultimate authority in society. Men were strong, had authority and women were weak and essentially property (of her dad at first, then her husband) and women were to serve and please their man. It was humiliating for a man to be dominated by another man. To be a real man you have to be strong and have a woman and make babies. Along the way, both men in a sexual encounter got labeled as weak and unmanly. People also think anal sex is gross because of the poop potential and that all gay guys have anal sex. So combine the shame of not being a real man and the poop potential of anal sex and gay men are more hated than lesbians.

    Read the comments section of any gay-themed article and most, if not all, that mention gay sex acts will be negative about men. Lesbians having sex is nearly never mentioned. If you point out that not all gay guys like anal sex they don't believe it and if you point out that straight people engage in anal sex as well, they really don't know what to say.

    I think in general, people pressure others to conform to a certain norm by making fun of those things that are outside the norm. Being a gay man is seen as a bigger wrong than being lesbian so there is more animosity toward gay men, to push us to "decide" to be straight. :eusa_doh:
     
  14. Are you kidding? There are a metric shit-ton of stereotypes about lesbians. And I'm frankly tired of hearing that I have less problems than gay guys do. I've had both girls and guys hate on me for being gay. I've also been harassed because straight guy assholes love their lesbians and I'm not very butch so I fit okay into their creepy little fantasies. I've had people say that I'd be a bad parent, that I'm a detriment to society, that ALL GAYS shouldn't be allowed in restaurants or that WE all deserve to die.

    On the first few threads like this that I posted on, I tried to calmly explain this, but the reality is I'm sick of having to do so when it's the same thing over and over.

    Lesbians and bisexual women still get hurt, physically and emotionally. They get sexually harassed. They get kicked out of their homes and their friend circles and their families, just like gay and bisexual men.

    It's rude speculation and misinformation that makes everyone think that lesbians have it all clear. Guys, yes, I feel for your problems. Please don't belittle my own and those of all the girls out there. I wouldn't do it to you.
     
  15. ArcaneVerse

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    Ever seen a hot male politician? I think it goes the same for guys. Though guys have one advantage over women, guys can have the whole suave distinguished intelligence thing working for them as "attractive" though I still wouldn't call them "hot".

    Its just a general stereotype, Pretty = Dumb.

    Lesbians can have it easier (not always the case) because yes its a male fantasy but also because its considered more of a loving relationship when its two females, then when it is two males.

    Lesbians = two females = love, Gays = two men = sex.

    and also because guys are stereotypically meant to be all manly and what not and gay guys are meant to be stereotypically feminine, so when gay guys come out they are then targeted for being weak men. Now I'm not saying this doesn't happen for lesbians and being butch, but I wouldn't say its quite the same either.

    anyways just my thoughts, not very well typed up but im shleepaye XD

    ---------- Post added 27th Jun 2011 at 03:00 AM ----------

    I don't think anyone has said anything to that effect.

    "Society is generally more okay with lesbians" doesnt = everything is easy for lesbians and they have nothing to deal with.

    &

    "I think there just aren't as many stereotypes about them." doesn't = that they don't have stereotypes placed on them at all.

    Its rude to go off on someone when you misunderstand what they are saying.
     
    #15 ArcaneVerse, Jun 26, 2011
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2011
  16. Fiddledeedee

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    Let's just all calm down a little and try to help each other get through the troubles we do face. I recognise that this is a very sensitive issue, so we need to all just be careful what we say. Voice your opinion, state that you disagree with others, but let's all just make sure this thread stays nice. Thank-you!

    I think that homosexual men and women both have it hard, in different ways, and that it also varies from place to place and age group to age group. People will be ridiculed both for fitting and not fitting stereotypes. Some types of bullying are more subtle than others, though, and some people can deal with it better than others.
     
  17. steel03

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    Woah, slow down. I'm sorry that offended you, really, I am. I absolutely understand your anger, but you have to listen to me. I would never dream of suggesting that lesbians don't have just as many shitty things to deal with as gays. Of course not. We of all people should know that. And I don't think, nor did I ever say, that there aren't an unacceptable number of stereotypes about lesbians. It's disgusting what people say and do and think. About all of us. I can see how what I said could be misconstrued, and I'm so sorry you took it that way. I could have chosen better words. That said, I think you're putting some words in my mouth. I have never said and will never say that lesbians have it "easy" or "clear." That's bullshit and we all know it. I won't ever go near saying anything like that, because honestly, I haven't had it that bad. I'm lucky enough to be surrounded on all sides by supportive family and friends and I was never seriously bullied as a kid. I know that this is something that transcends gender. It's not easier for lesbians, it's easier for some people.

    Here's what I meant: While society doesn't particularly like either of us, it's gay men who are more commonly derided in the media. And I think that's mostly just because the stereotypes our society has about us are easier to portray and make fun of (girly, wimpy, sissy, flouncy, fashion fashion fashion fashion fashion) than are those about lesbians. That's not to say it doesn't happen. It's just not quite so overt all the time. I don't mean that it's okay for lesbians to be caricatured or that it doesn't happen at all. It happens all the time, but it's not as obvious as the gay stereotype. Look at Glee or pretty much every show on Bravo. This is where society is getting its image of gay men. Kurt Hummel and Andy Cohen and Carson Kressley. I said there are "more stereotypes," but maybe what I should have said was that the stereotypes are louder for gay men. There just aren't really shows with as much ubiquity as Glee or Project Runway that features stereotypical lesbians. I don't think lesbians don't have stereotypes or have bad things said about them; of course they do, and I'm sorry again that that's the sense my post gave you.

    I will say, though, that men, gay or otherwise, do face a huge amount of pressure from society to fit the norm. It's a much bigger crime in elementary and middle schools for a boy to be girlish than for a girl to be a tomboy. That doesn't change how I feel about bigotry against lesbians or modern problems with women's rights or any of that, but I do think there's a serious problem in the male world that's going unaddressed.
     
  18. lulu165

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    At my school, The boys are egotistical chauvinist pigs in my opinion. MANY of them just want to have sex and if you deny them that then they are going to be a pig. I would say a vast majority of them are like that. So, girls who come out as lesbian face so many hardships especially from these men. Gay males on the other hand have less, because the straight men do not see them as a threat to getting laid, and the females flock to them and applaud them for their courage of being out. No, I am not saying gay males at my school face no hardships for their sexuality, its there but not to as high of a degree as what lesbians face. The total hardship at my school is decreasing rapidly though because the teachers are putting up with any derogatory comments less and less.

    As I type this I hear the washer doing yet another rinse cycle WHY?! So if the above is poorly written, it is because I typed it in a rush.
     
  19. Anne Nonymous

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    This seems like a silly discussion to have, quite frankly. And I say "silly" to avoid the more colorful expressions that come to mind. But if we need to make generalizations, then I say women, regardless of sexual orientation, are treated shittier than males. I guess it's not as bad in this country as in others. We don't have to face genital mutilation or experience "dry sex" or fall victim to "honor killings" -- but we're still treated as less-valuable-than-men objects of derision. Being gay doesn't make this any better, but it does give other women a new dagger to stab their sisters in the back with ... cruelly and repeatedly.

    Sorry, if I sound harsh. But the reality isn't very pleasant :icon_sad:
     
  20. You're right, and I'm sorry I went off. I did put words in your mouth, and I apologize. Please, understand that it's only because I've heard some of the things you posted out of mouths of people who have seriously underestimated the hardships that gay women go through, thinking everything is just grand because guys think you're sexy. And THAT is what's bullshit, NOT anything that you said. Again, I really am sorry. Not an excuse, just an explanation.

    That being said, I actually agree with you. There is a serious problem with the way that society tells men they need to be. And it goes largely unaddressed, as opposed to any movements by women which are big and loud and well accepted these days. Men and their individual personalities are being oppressed by the idea that you have to be a stereotypical man, not in any way "feminine". I get it and it is deeply concerning to me. I don't want my brother to feel that way, and if I were to have a son, I wouldn't want him to go through it either. So, I hear you :slight_smile: