I'm not religious and...

[OMGWTFBBQ]

for some reason, it never really occurred to me that someone might never come out or decide to be with someone of the same sex because of religion.

I mean DUH, I know. I'm an atheist, not a strong one, but I am and I guess it's something I never think about.

A woman told me today, that she's going to spend the rest of her life alone because she values her relationship with God more than her sexuality.

I don't know, I just thought it was sad, but I guess this is pretty common.

[Tracy Lord]

I'm 41. I haven't darkened the door of any kind of church in over five years and I haven't had anything at all to do with the religion I was raised with in about 20. And I STILL have issues with religion as it relates to sexuality. Religion is powerful stuff.

[Jay]

It's not sad. They are happy assuming that life. For them, your life is sad.

I would be happy to assume either life.

[OMGWTFBBQ]

Originally Posted by Jay

It's not sad. They are happy assuming that life. For them, your life is sad.

I would be happy to assume either life.

What do you mean? We have the same life, for different reasons.

But I'm closeted because of my own hangups, I never really thought about someone having to deal with this. you can't just get over it, it must be really hard.

[Just Passing]

I always feel sorry for anyone who has religion and their sexuality cross over into each other. Granted, there are a lot of religious people who are happily gay, but when they feel restricted to their religion more than their sexuality, then I agree it is rather sad.

[OMGWTFBBQ]

Originally Posted by Jay

It's not sad. They are happy assuming that life. For them, your life is sad.

I would be happy to assume either life.

And why would you be happy to be closeted forever, anyway? I thought this is what people here didn't want.

[Black Cat]

I never dealt with this, but I imagine it must be agonizing. Religious beliefs conflicting with one's sexuality must account for a considerable percentage of LGBT youth suicide rates.

I love my relationship with God. I love being gay. They don't really coincide, as I firmly believe I was created this way for a reason.

[silverhalo]

I think what people were saying is if they are happy to be alone as a nun or priest would be then I would be happy for them but if they are not happy to choose that path but feel obliged to then I would feel sorry for them.

[thecat06]

I can understand, when I first realized that I was bisexual, I was scared about being accepted. I still have not told anybody because of this. I am planning on coming out when I go to college.

[Zontar]

I think being on the gay spectrum taught me one thing: there's no correct way to read the Bible because it's nothing more than a mere historical record. Why do I say this? Because man wrote it. There's no such thing as miracles, so how would a higher power write it? Magic? It's no more significant than Moby Dick or the Domesday Book. Excellent literary, historical, and cultural value. Fun to read too, I read it. But, don't go looking into it beyond that.

I think another thing I learned is that no religion can be right either because people jump from one to the next until they hear what they want to, rather than making concessions to what they believe no matter how harsh. What is the point of religion if you're moving from one to the next until you finally hear what you want to? If religion were "real", don't you think the proper thing to do would be obey the Bible instead of playing word games? But this has been going on since the beginning of Christianity; people who divulged from the Catholic teaching (the "original" Christianity) were originally regarded as heretics. Post-schism, however, many offshoots of Christianity were tolerated and now there's thousands of churches all over the world, believing in all sorts of things. Every one of these churches came about from the clever wordplay they performed on the Bible, until they got what they wanted to hear. It's almost as if they're "theological lawyers," looking for that clever loophole in the law that lets them believe what they want to hear. Oneness Pentecostalists deny the trinity. Jehovah's Witnesses believe blood transfusions are sinful. The MCC, mind-bogglingly, builds their church around something that's clearly a sin in the Bible to begin with. It's such a marketplace of ideas springing from something man-made to begin with.

Not just gay people but anyone will sit there and play with words until they get something they want to hear, no matter how little evidence there is for what they say. "Oh, Paul was only condeming rape!" "Oh, Leviticus doesn't apply anymore!" If those laws don't apply anymore, then what else doesn't? Who's right? The Methodists? The Pentecostalists? If I tried hard enough, I could come up with a NAMBLA-approved Christianity. How do we know who's really right? You don't. Because the Bible wasn't made by any higher power.

This isn't a debate as to whether or not God exists. If we want to come to understand a (G)od(s), the Bible is a mistaken place to turn to. I think the best place to turn to is science and the world around you. Educate yourself. Observe the increasingly unlikely series of events that made life on Earth possible, for example. Jupiter's gravity keeps the asteroids away. The sun is just the right distance from Earth. Some scientists even believe that life as we know it is very rare. Obviously, it's not any proof for intelligence, but it keeps you hanging on to that possibility if it floats your boat.

[Lexington]

>>>I thought this is what people here didn't want.

That's what people HERE don't want. Pretty much everyone here has decided either that their "programming" (my term) overrides their religion, or (more commonly) that their programming and religion can co-exist side by side.

Lex

[OMGWTFBBQ]

Originally Posted by Black Cat

I never dealt with this, but I imagine it must be agonizing. Religious beliefs conflicting with one's sexuality must account for a considerable percentage of LGBT youth suicide rates.

I love my relationship with God. I love being gay. They don't really coincide, as I firmly believe I was created this way for a reason.

IKR, especially for teens. It was the end of the world me to me as a teen, and there was no religion factor then, either.

Kind of makes me feel foolish for having the hangups that I do have, I don't come from a religious family or anything, either.

[bookworm43]

i totally agree with the statement above. the 'universe' has proven to me time and time again that there's a reason for everything happens, no matter how long it takes to find out what the reason is exactly. that's why we have to be patient with this kind of thing- something great is around the corner for all of us, and we WILL find it.

[Jay]

Originally Posted by Zontar

I think being on the gay spectrum taught me one thing: there's no correct way to read the Bible because it's nothing more than a mere historical record. Why do I say this? Because man wrote it. There's no such thing as miracles, so how would a higher power write it? Magic? It's no more significant than Moby Dick or the Domesday Book. Excellent literary, historical, and cultural value. Fun to read too, I read it. But, don't go looking into it beyond that.

I disagree. This is just my personal opinion, so we'll skip it.

Originally Posted by Zontar

I think another thing I learned is that no religion can be right either because people jump from one to the next until they hear what they want to, rather than making concessions to what they believe no matter how harsh. What is the point of religion if you're moving from one to the next until you finally hear what you want to?

Not everyone does that. I was raised Catholic and when I was old enough to know whether I wanted to believe or not, I chose to believe, even if they say that having gay sex is bad, if they don't condone using condoms, or if they don't accept two men to be bound in marriage.

Supposedly, everyone should be like that: in their 'teens' and 'twenties', they should question their beliefs and stay true to the ones they believe for the rest of their lives, not to change churches the same way they change underwear. I understand if you go through a major crisis and find yourself in a place where you need to change. But just because "they don't let me drink more than three beers", that's a mistake.

Don't think that every religious person is as volatile as Wall Street. There are some of us who stick to our beliefs in the good times and in the bad times.

Originally Posted by Zontar

Oneness Pentecostalists deny the trinity. Jehovah's Witnesses believe blood transfusions are sinful. The MCC, mind-bogglingly, builds their church around something that's clearly a sin in the Bible to begin with. It's such a marketplace of ideas springing from something man-made to begin with.

Religion is flawed because man is flawed. That is why I have never stated that religion is something needed to reach God, it is something that can greatly help, but it's not strictly necessary. I vouch for Catholicism, but if anyone is true to themselves and their beliefs, any religion (besides maybe satanism and other 'dark' beliefs) can be good. At the end, the people should focus in reaching God and not pleasing their religious leaders.

Originally Posted by Zontar

Not just gay people but anyone will sit there and play with words until they get something they want to hear, no matter how little evidence there is for what they say. "Oh, Paul was only condeming rape!" "Oh, Leviticus doesn't apply anymore!" If those laws don't apply anymore, then what else doesn't? Who's right? The Methodists? The Pentecostalists? If I tried hard enough, I could come up with a NAMBLA-approved Christianity. How do we know who's really right? You don't. Because the Bible wasn't made by any higher power.

Interestingly, both Leviticus and Paul were talking about two different types of homosexual acts, but none of them were talking about homosexual sex within a monogamous, respectful, loving relationship. Actually, no verse in the Bible refers to that.

Originally Posted by Zontar

This isn't a debate as to whether or not God exists. If we want to come to understand a (G)od(s), the Bible is a mistaken place to turn to. I think the best place to turn to is science and the world around you. Educate yourself. Observe the increasingly unlikely series of events that made life on Earth possible, for example. Jupiter's gravity keeps the asteroids away. The sun is just the right distance from Earth. Some scientists even believe that life as we know it is very rare. Obviously, it's not any proof for intelligence, but it keeps you hanging on to that possibility if it floats your boat.

I disagree as well but this time let me elaborate. The Bible is one place to turn to. It's not a mistaken place to turn to, it's just one more place you can reach God through. I do agree that science and the world around us is another valid way to find God.

--------------------
To the OP: I mistakenly assumed that they were out but willingly chose to remain single. If they are closeted and they suffer in silence, then I agree that is something sad and mistaken.
However, if a Christian decides to live a life of chastity as a promise to God to remain pure, if their beliefs state that having gay sex is a sin, then that is something I respect and really commend.

---------------------
I am Catholic and even though my church state it is a sin to have homosexual sex, I believe that God can't have a problem if two guys in a respectful, monogamous, loving relationship have sex. I also believe God has no problem if two women marry each other. I also believe that it's overly stupid to believe that God will hate any type of real love.

I, however, will remain single for one reason: I would be creating a double standard if I say "I am Catholic" and if I am grabbing a guy's ass at the same time. So I, first, want to make sure there's a change in the way the Vatican thinks of the LGBTQ people before I find myself a boyfriend or a husband. I believe the happiness of million of people is more important than my own.

[Zontar]

Originally Posted by Jay

I am Catholic and even though my church state it is a sin to have homosexual sex, I believe that God can't have a problem if two guys in a respectful, monogamous, loving relationship have sex. I also believe God has no problem if two women marry each other. I also believe that it's overly stupid to believe that God will hate any type of real love.

I, however, will remain single for one reason: I would be creating a double standard if I say "I am Catholic" and if I am grabbing a guy's ass at the same time. So I, first, want to make sure there's a change in the way the Vatican thinks of the LGBTQ people before I find myself a boyfriend or a husband. I believe the happiness of million of people is more important than my own.

Well, props to you. I've seen more than a few self-described "Catholics" who, quite honestly, strike me as never having read church law to begin with, or even the Bible for that matter. They're not knowledgeable of the importance of ecclesiastical law in the church or even aware of its existence.

I think the people I have less respect for are the ones who pick and choose from their birth religion based on what they're most afraid of, rather than what they really believe in. My parents, for example, claim they're Catholic but oppose the church on almost everything. They even emphasized up and down how there's nothing even the church says about being gay (which isn't true at all.) But when someone's about to get sick or something, they run to church, run to confession, etc. "Sunshine non-denominationals", pretty much. Why would you call yourself a member of a group if you didn't think their way?

i myself am a very proud catholic and also bisexual. I believe Jesus Christ loves me for who I am. I cant help my feelings towards boys and i believe also that the church is made up of the people, not the clergy. And jay, as a young catholic i agree totally with what u said, if only more catholics were like u