Would God really want that?

[Noah27]

This is just a what do you think kinda deal. So here goes like 2 or 3 months ago I went to talk to a catholic priest (cuz my mom was all bitching about how being gay is a sin and also cuz she saw that I was sad all the time she thought he might be able to help me see the light or something boy was she wrong) cuz Iam catholic...I guess but anyway. I asked the Priest "What does the church think of homosexuality?" and he said "The church accepts that there is homosexual tendencies and that is not a sin but the act of having sex with the same sex is a sin" and then I said "Look I have been trying to change since I could remember but nothing changes I still like men and I have tryed to kill myself because I some days I just cant bare it" then he said "these homosexual tendencies you have are a test from God he is trying to test how strong you are but you can change. Have you had a boyfriend?" I said "No" then he asked "Have you...had sex with a man before?" I lied...a little the most I have done is oral but I told him "No" then he said "Well see you can change because you have so many things going for you for one you are not all effeminated like most homosexuals two you have never had a boyfriend (I did not lie to him about that that much is true ) and three you have never had sex () you can change anytime you want its just all up to you. And I will tell you a story showing that you can change there was this boy that said he was gay and now he is married and has a child and a happy life he even said that God helped him see that he was walking down the path of hell and guess what he was even worst off then you he was effeminated and he thinks that he turned gay because he was hanging out with alot of homosexual people so maby that your problem just remove your self from all your homosexual friends" so I said "Uh...I dont have any homosexual friends" "Well see then you have it even easier then most people...but from the look of it you dont want to change or you commitment is lacking. So what I can tell you is this dont get into a relashionship because relashionships between the same sex dont last and what are you going to get out of it heartbrake and then you are going to try to kill yourself because of the pain he caused you (But I want to kill myself now ) so what you can do is the time you would spend with your "Boyfriend" spend it doing Gods work help the poor join your church groups and never ever think of getting into a relashionship and if that thought crawls into your mind just pray and ask God to help you over come those thoughts and then when your parents are old stay with them and help because since you would not have a wife or kids to take care off you could take care of them till they die just ask God to help you " Uh...so yeah when I went to him I was already getting it in my head that I could have a happy health relashionship with a man but in the back of my mind there was always that thought that I might stay alone that was my nighmare but then what he described at the end all smily that just that became my new nightmare it is so horrible that I just cant belive he could have told me that. I mean so what stay alone doing Gods work then take care of my parents till they die...then when they die...what now by then I might be like 55 or something and all I would have to show for it is my big smile yeah right. So this is the question would God really want that for me to give up my life to help everyone else and then in the end me be alone hell I in that senerio I dont think I would live past 35. I would like to think God would not want that because it would not be fair for me and God cuz for one I could be unhappy like super unhappy and two because Iam unhappy my heart would not be into the "Good" things that I do. and the Priest also said "I know its a hard cross to bare but in the end if you do what I said you can get into the kingdom of heaven" So here is what I think if I do what the priest said I think that when I die I will be at the goldengates and God is going to denie me pass because all the stuff I did was halfhearted and does not count what do you think? Iam sorry it was so long I thought it was going to be shorter but anyways here is the question Would God really want that?

[Bibliophile]

First off God does not want any of his children to suffer. What that person told you to do is NOT what I would say a loving god would want for his child. You have to remember that LOVE is the greatest of all commandments in the bible and that you are being told to ignore love. The bible has many translations and many verses can interpreted in various ways. What you should understand is that love of yourself and love of your god is all that should matter. Read your bible and reach your own understanding. I will admit not I am not a believer of your faith but I used to be. I will look at my old books and try to find some passages that might be of use. In the mean time read the link I post below. Its another EC members take on Christians and homosexuality and I think its pure gold. Keep your head up and remember that a permanent solution to a temporary problem is never the answer. And if you would like to say that your sexuality is life long you are right. However your failure to accept it and coming to terms with it is a temporary situation. In time you will be able to align your faith and sexuality. Hang in there.
My advice about being LGBT and Christian (very long)

[Revan]

He's basically saying to be a unic. That man who's married? Yeah guess what, he's probably very unhappy and either he gets sex from guys on the side OR he'll eventually come back out realizing where he went wrong. The shit your pastor said is just a load of bullshit plain and simple.

[Pseudojim]

Originally Posted by Revan

He's basically saying to be a unic.

I'm guessing you meant eunuch, but yeah. Very silly. Celibacy is pointless.

No-one can talk for what god wants. Anyone who tries is either a fool or a liar (and a demagogue, probably)

[Just Passing]

This is what bothers me most about religion if anything, if there isn't war involved between one religion and another or just general arrogance of it all (I'm not saying everyone who's religious is like this, but whatever).

That being said, I think this priest was just ignorant and all the knowledge he had to offer was simply from the limited options the Bible offered, I assume. There are far worse things than homosexuality and if supposed God didn't allow you into heaven that would be far more insulting than if a person or drugs or a pedophile were allowed into heaven.

[Miske]

Thanks for the link Bibliophile! I am also struggling with my being a Christian and being gay at the same time.

@Noah27

Honestly I don't think God will be as black & white as the Bible describes Him. I'm pretty sure there are many other concepts about life which still need explaining and I think being LGBT is one of them.

[Bibliophile]

Originally Posted by Miske

Thanks for the link Bibliophile! I am also struggling with my being a Christian and being gay at the same time.

@Noah27

Honestly I don't think God will be as black & white as the Bible describes Him. I'm pretty sure there are many other concepts about life which still need explaining and I think being LGBT is one of them.

Not a problem. As I have said before I am here to do what I can. I may not be christian any longer but I used to teach bible study and am willing to help any one that needs it in that area. Just leave a message here or post on my wall if you want something a little more one on one.

[CharmanderGato]

Alright, here's the way I see it. Sexual orientation has been proven to be specified, if not before birth, by the age of 5. By that age or before birth, you can't make those decisions, right? So God makes us this way and in said case, how can he blame us for something he did to us? So I say he shouldn't be that mad at us if he is at all. Anybody agree?

[Ridiculous]

I think the main thing that everyone should remember when dealing with religion is that anything you are ever told has come out of the mouth (or pen) of a human. There is nothing to stop them from lying to you to get what they want.

[CharmanderGato]

Originally Posted by Ridiculous

I think the main thing that everyone should remember when dealing with religion is that anything you are ever told has come out of the mouth (or pen) of a human. There is nothing to stop them from lying to you to get what they want.

I agree with this completely as well. God didn't write the Bible. Man did. And who's to say when writing the Bible for God, Man didn't change a few... major details.

[Austin]

Well firstly god does not exist, so either way you will not get into the kingdom of heaven. I say enjoy life, because it is all that you get. You can either be happy in life, or sad in life with the same end result. Please don't let religion hold you captive and prevent you from enjoying your life. Life is a gift, not a punishment from god.

That being said, if we pretend the christian god exists (not talking about all the other gods that are said to exist, christian specifically), I don't think he would want you to suffer in life. I don't think he cares whether you love a man or a woman. As long as you are a good person I think that that is all that matters. There is so much weird stuff in the bible. Slavery is allowed, you can't eat shrimp, etc etc. You need to understand that human beings have picked and chosen what verses they want to follow, based on human's own prejudices toward things that are different. Which means that, homosexuality being wrong is in a list of tons of other things not allowed by the bible, but allowed by the church. How suspicious is this that homosexuality is the only one preached about? I think jesus loves you as much as he loves people who each shrimp. Just understand that homosexuality being wrong was chosen by men to support their hatred. It is outdated in the bible, and I believe there is actually a gospel saying Jesus was gay? - look it up.

Please, I beg you, do not live your life celibate because of religion. Don't ruin your life and make yourself miserable. It's a huge mistake.

[CharmanderGato]

Originally Posted by Austin

Well firstly god does not exist, so either way you will not get into the kingdom of heaven. I say enjoy life, because it is all that you get. You can either be happy in life, or sad in life with the same end result. Please don't let religion hold you captive and prevent you from enjoying your life. Life is a gift, not a punishment from god.

That being said, if we pretend the christian god exists (not talking about all the other gods that are said to exist, christian specifically), I don't think he would want you to suffer in life. I don't think he cares whether you love a man or a woman. As long as you are a good person I think that that is all that matters. There is so much weird stuff in the bible. Slavery is allowed, you can't eat shrimp, etc etc. You need to understand that human beings have picked and chosen what verses they want to follow, based on human's own prejudices toward things that are different. Which means that, homosexuality being wrong is in a list of tons of other things not allowed by the bible, but allowed by the church. How suspicious is this that homosexuality is the only one preached about? I think jesus loves you as much as he loves people who each shrimp. Just understand that homosexuality being wrong was chosen by men to support their hatred. It is outdated in the bible, and I believe there is actually a gospel saying Jesus was gay? - look it up.

Please, I beg you, do not live your life celibate because of religion. Don't ruin your life and make yourself miserable. It's a huge mistake.

1. how do you know he doesn't exist have you been to the future in a flying delorian??? i wanna go!!! (or past, no matter)

2. THE BIBLE SAYS TO NOT EAT SHRIMP???? (vegitarian anyway, but what a stupid rule...)

3. i think i did read that somewhere... i think i will google it (about jesus being gay)

[Ridiculous]

Originally Posted by CharmanderGato

2. THE BIBLE SAYS TO NOT EAT SHRIMP???? (vegitarian anyway, but what a stupid rule...)

Yup; no seafood that doesn't have fins, which means all shellfish, crustaceans, sea cucumbers etc. I believe it's in the same section as the anti-homosexuality part and is apparently an equally-bad sin.

The bible also says that women have to sacrifice either two turtles or two pigeons every time they menstruate, but for some reason people don't pay any attention to those parts..

[CharmanderGato]

Originally Posted by Ridiculous

Yup; no seafood that doesn't have fins, which means all shellfish, crustaceans, sea cucumbers etc. I believe it's in the same section as the anti-homosexuality part and is apparently an equally-bad sin.

The bible also says that women have to sacrifice either two turtles or two pigeons every time they menstruate, but for some reason people don't pay any attention to those parts..

Equally bad??? Then I say there's NOTHING wrong at all. we should all be fine... I am... reassured now.
What? I've never even killed a fly or an ant on purpose... (probably stepped on one) I could never... ever do that... I'd sacrifice myself first... ... poor turtles and pigeons... to be honest, if i did do that, it would take me two months to find the turtles and pigeons... God/man sure is wierd... (meaning that is the best possible way..., i think???)

---------- Post added 30th Jul 2011 at 03:24 AM ----------

Was Jesus gay?

Jesus Was Gay According to Mark--jk & Prof Smith

said i'd google it and i did. Here you are... both seem legit and unbiased to me. so ... do with them as you will.

[TheWanderer]

Originally Posted by Ridiculous

Yup; no seafood that doesn't have fins, which means all shellfish, crustaceans, sea cucumbers etc. I believe it's in the same section as the anti-homosexuality part and is apparently an equally-bad sin.

The bible also says that women have to sacrifice either two turtles or two pigeons every time they menstruate, but for some reason people don't pay any attention to those parts..

I think all of this is found in the book of Leviticus. And people dont pay attention to it because it isnt "convenient" to their lives. Anyhow I try not to say to much about religion or politics, so Im going to bail out of this convo.

[CharmanderGato]

thank you. gonna read leviticus tomorrow

[Meropspusillus]

Originally Posted by Austin

Well firstly god does not exist, so either way you will not get into the kingdom of heaven.

I think its important on this forum, and in general when discussing religion with people who believe, to avoid declarative statements like this one. "I don't believe god exists" is a lot better than "SORRY! HE DOESN'T!". If you don't do that, it makes it hard for any real discussion to occur.

[Messed Up]

Originally Posted by Austin

Well firstly god does not exist, so either way you will not get into the kingdom of heaven.

I beg your pardon but EC is a place where we (LGBTQ identified) are free to express ourselves in any which way- which INCLUDES religiously. I embrace an atheist the same way I embrace a religious man. However, I cannot nor will not respect a person who is intolerant of another person’s beliefs. You should be more careful with your words sir, as many people believe in God, some one, some millions, but even in this day and age we, the religious, still exist.

Do you think it right to say something as hurtful as “God does not exist”?. Many people say “Gay is a choice” but I am sure you would be hurt just as much if someone said that to you.

Be wary of your words.

---------- Post added 30th Jul 2011 at 05:24 PM ----------

Well, this forum is not about athiesm but to help Noah;

Hmmm...pickle. From what you’ve described the priest said this is a test. Why would God test you in such a way? Why would God have you live a life alone devoid of love? In theory, if being LGBTQ is a test from God to do His service then there should be a whole lotta LGBTQ nuns and priests roaming about which I have found little. BUT I can tell YOU, Noah, I myself am a Christian-Catholic like YOU, and my life is devoted to God. But I am also LGBTQ identified.

I DO plan to do God’s work by uniting LGBTQ community and welcome them to the Church. Lemme tell you a little secret that always inspires my work for God and the LGBTQ Community;

Galileo supported the idea of the Heliocentric universe (that meaning the Sun is the centre of the universe, not the Earth) although it says in the Bible we live in a geocentric universe. Because of his views he was to be condemned to death by the Church, but was forced to recant for his life (which he had to do and did). Fast forward to today WE ALL KNOW THE SUN IS THE CENTRE OF OUR UNIVERSE despite what the Bible says...do you know when the Church apologized to Galileo?

1992.

I was fucking 3. Thats wasn’t THAT long ago.

Think about what I have just told you. God is always right. Man is not. God made you and God is never wrong. Man is.

[Marlowe]

I think part of the bind you are in stems from the structure of the catholic Church. You know in your heart that God loves all his flock, and that he has made you this way, yet ultimately, it is the pope not you or your priest that gets to make the interpretation. There are some branches of Catholicism that tend to be less orthodox, for instance liberation theology, but unfortunately the political history of the church since the Council of Nicea has been top down in structure. I think it is very easy to get distracted the institutional aspects of religion, rather than focusing on how religion can help us lead righteous lives.

The bible says a lot of things, and I think it is up to us to find the meaning in them. For instance, it exhorts us to stone the rebellious child. Theological scholars, has spent much time trying to deal with orders such as these and others to temper their severe decrees according to what we know to be right. In this case, a careful reading of the surrounding passages implies a host of restrictions such that it is nearly impossible to find a child so rebellious as to satisfy the law.

I believe in God and regardless of what anyone tells me, my reading of the scripture and my understanding of life, which is all that God has given us, personally, have lead me to understand that God is good, and merciful, and benevolent, and that God wants us to be happy. Many of my friends who are atheists ask, how can you believe in god, if you are educated and liberal and embrace science. And I reply to them, how can you deny an entity that is so perfectly good.

If there is an afterlife, I believe we will be admitted to it based upon how we lived our lives in this world. You need to ask yourself if the world will be a better place if you stay in the closet. This largely depends on what you mean by better place. In your priest's mind, a better world has less gay sex, since you could do all other righteous things he says even if you were openly gay. But this is not the only criteria. Will there be more love in the world, more happiness. Will you devote all your energies to what you do in your life rather than trying to control what you feel. I would say no, but that is only my answer.

[Melusine]

I can't presume to know what God wants, but when I search in my heart of hearts I simply can't believe that God would condemn you for the way you were born. Also, the passages in the Bible referring to homosexuality are vague at best. True, Leviticus outright condemns it, but Leviticus also condemns eating shellfish, and plenty of Catholics eat lobster and shrimp. The tale of Sodom and Gemorrah refer to the rape of angels, which A: isn't homosexuality because angels have no sex, and B: was more than likely referring more to the breech of ancient Hebrew custom, which was that guests had to be treated with the highest respect and hospitality, and obviously wanting to rape newcomers in town does not follow that protocol.

Homosexuality is the new testament is only referred to by Paul, who was a misogynist, and possibly a homosexual himself. One thing we must remember is it is NOT a direct quote from God Himself. The Bible was written by men, and men make mistakes. Jesus never spoke on homosexuality.

Even IF (and I do NOT believe this) homosexuality is wrong, according to Jesus (who hung out with sinners), sin will be forgiven.

At the end of the day, take the good lessons from the Bible, and know that God loves everyone, including you.

I am sorry that you had to deal with the ignorance your priest was spewing, but believe me, not all Christians, not even all Catholics think that way.

What is the Golden rule? "Love your neighbor as yourself." If you don't love yourself, you cannot love your neighbor. Love yourself, and your sexual orientation. I detest Lady Gaga's music, but to quote a particularly insightful sing of hers:

"God makes no mistakes. You're on the right track, baby, you were born this way."