As some of you may know, 26 April is the official day to commemorate the victims of the Holocaust. I had the pleasure of filling in for a friend to moderate and translate a panel discussion for a mixed audience of about 400 in our local club with 2 survivors of the holocaust, one 86 and the other 81. Here’s the scenario. As people come in, they are asked to wear a Star of David, or one of the different-colored triangles representing criminals, the immigrants, the gypsies, the disabled, political dissidents, and homosexuals. The audience included about 130 8th and 9th graders (age 14-16). After the introductions, invocation, and national anthems, my two Jewish holocaust survivors take their place at the head table, me in the middle. Then the folks with the various-colored badges are asked to stand up, representing the groups that were victimized and exterminated by the nazis in WWII. So far, so good. Each group stands up. Finally come the pink triangles designating the homosexuals. Thousands were exterminated because their lifestyle didn’t contribute to parenting more of the “superior” race. As the soldiers and civilians with the pink triangle stood up and were described as representing the homosexuals, the students burst out laughing. In that moment, I was deeply hurt, still am. Kids can be so insensitive and so cruel. In 20/20 hindsight, I would like to have had the courage to stand up and tell the kids to shut up, that there are gay people in the room, me for example, and that I take offense at their laughter. That’s why the nazis succeeded. I said nothing and began my interview of the Holocaust survivors. It went very well and I got plenty of compliments, including our general and his wife. Now I think I missed an opportunity. I just wasn’t up to coming out in front of my peers, not just yet. There would have been dead silence in the room. And I might have stolen the show from our Holocaust survivors. That would have been unfair and uncool. You can’t hijack an event like this for your own purposes. After the event, a club worker asked me whether I was Jewish. My response was, ``Do I have to be?`` It should have been, ``No, I’m gay.`` Missed opportunities. My conclusions so far: You guys have a tough road to hoe, from Paraguay to Canada, and cowboy country, from England to South Africa, Wisconsin to Georgia, BC, Down Under, Argentina, and all over the world. A few months ago, the kids laughing would have meant nothing much to me. Distraction, disappointment, file it. Tonight, I’m genuinely hurt. At least I can tell you about it, and my girlfriend tomorrow night when we go to the Mother’s Finest concert. I’m wiser for the experience. What would you have done? I want to tell the SGT who organized the event what a predicament I was in. Dangerous territory. Word spreads fast. Nothing prepares you for life, except life itself. I was never so proud of being gay, sitting between 2 Holocaust survivors who told their story, yet unable to tell mine, especially for the kids who laughed. We have a lot to learn. P.S. I think my friend (gay by the way) intentionally handed me this assignment because he feared the emotional consequences, thinking I’m hetero and would be less likely to get emotionally involved. At least I managed to keep my cool. Little does he know. You guys are a bit smarter than the people I encountered today. Thanks for the opportunity to unload. Lorenz
In this case I agree with you that it would have been inappropriate to say anything. It would have distracted from the point of the show which would have been unfair. I think you did exactly the right thing by not saying anything. With the later question too, I think your reply was right for the circumstances. You weren't asked if you were Jewish. You could have said what nationality you are in response, but your sexuality wasn't appropriate. As for the students laughing, remember that people also laugh when they feel embarassed or awkward. It doesn't necessarily mean they think it is funny. Anyway if it was just the one group they would have made idiots of themselves in the eyes of the rest of the audience (who probably turned to look at them), and probably felt somewhat embarassed about that. I think you handled that situation in the correct and most appropriate manner for the event. I am sorry you found it so uncomfortable, but hopefully you can forget about that and remember the rest of what must have been fascinating and moving accounts by the two survivers.
No I didnt, but thnx for bringing it to my attention, looked it up on wikipedia...Holocaust i mean...and i think its completely monsterous. Of course i dont have to tell you that, im sure you already know. If i was there...i dont think id be able to sit down and endure that much mockery and dispicable, durogatory, degrading laughter. I'd be so fuming i probably would either a) remove myself from the room, quietly and stealthfully, then burst out in tears...sometimes bravery is absent when i need it most b) bolt upright and tell them all to shut the fuck up, they didnt laugh at any of the other categories {sorry for using that word, sounds inhumane but its all i can think of} of victims, why should they laugh at gay?! They'd either keep laughing, do an all on verbal assault {which i could easy handle, knowing that i asserted not only on my behalf, but for all of us} or, the people who were only laughing because the ones who are more popular are laughing, would more than likely see my reasoning and stop. Very good point, now on second thought i probably would have shut up, because i would've w/o a doubt been thinking the same thing...i think its very admirable that you kept your cool, and let the people who have been affected by the Holocaust have their day....w/o any other distractions or as you said, hijack their memorium. And plus, you'll have MANY more oppurtunities to assert yourself, trust me...mockery of homosexuals is around every corner. And your peers can wait, like both you and i have mentioned....not the day. Nah, the club worker really has no business knowing you're gay...i mean you probably wont even see him again...what difference does it make, unless its about your spirtual furfillement or something more emotional than practical. (sorry if thats confusing, ask me to rephrase it if you want to know what i ment that bad Well the genuinely hurt part, no duh...you have every right to be. And i dont think you should tell the organizer about you in specific...like you said...unless your ready to deal with the worst case senario, id say just submit an anonymous note or w/e...if thats not possible (no feedback-box for that id assume lol) you can have someone who DOES have so affilation to get it up to the organizer or something like that. Wow, poetic and true...can i marry you? Just kidding lol, but i have nothing to say to that except that everything will come in good time...another life lesson, what goes around comes around....those nasty little bastards who laughed will get theirs....just wait and see ; )
That's really disgusting. At such an event that demands respect, laughing like that as if it were a joke is like pissing on thousands of graves. This isn't only disrespectful to homosexuals, but to Holocaust victims as a whole. If they were being tortured for something they couldn't control, I doubt that they would be laughing. Though, as the others have been saying, it's part of a group mentality... Before establishing my homosexuality, I probably would have laughed, too. At the beginning of this school year, in my English class, we were all supposed to pick a contoversial topic to write an argument about. There were two speakers for each topic, one to affirm the idea and one to negate it. We were supposed to bring a visual aid to be integrated in the speech. There were two speakers for gay marriage, and the negative went first. He came to class wearing a zipped up sweatshirt. As soon as he got up to speak, he took out a bible and began reading out of the Old Testament for his evidence. He made feeble arguments with no backing (other than a few Biblical quotes), and his speech was filled with crude jokes. In the middle of his speech, he unzipped his sweatshirt to reveal a shirt with outlines of a man and a woman (like the ones on the restroom signs) holding hands. Underneath the outlines, it said "Marriage = one man + one woman." The teacher accepted the shirt as his visual aid, as if it were a valid piece of evidence to support his statements. The class loved his speech, and they laughed at all of his jokes. I was really offended. Not only was he making cruel jokes and giving really weak arguments, but he actually believed what he was saying. What hurt me the most, though, was that they actually liked is speech. Even the people who I thought were rational had found the speech funny. When we took a vote, only four or five people (including me) voted against his idea. And then we moved on to the next speeches, as if nothing had happened, as if everyting he was talking about was ok. Sorry to have gone on a tangent (not to mention a long one). Though, something as simple as a class speech may seem trivial compared to Lorenz's situation, but I think it represents the same sort of disrespect.
Wow! You guys never cease to amaze me with your insight and useful comments. I’ll try to do these one by one. Thanks Paul for your astute observation that kids might be embarrassed or feel awkward and end up laughing as a defensive measure. I hadn’t considered that. And yes, they fell silent pretty quickly when they realized that the rest of the audience didn’t think it was funny. I think there were a lot of embarrassed adults, as well as the teachers who were there. The interview of the two survivors was fascinating but also emotionally draining because of the subject matter. That, coupled with the kid’s laughter, was kind of slam-dunk that made me sad-mad. I’m still pretty new at this so it was a valuable learning experience. Hi Kyle, I like both of your alternatives but neither was feasible for me. On the way home, I thought about what happened and was close to tears, just walking down the street :icon_cry: . You’re very right on having other opportunities to assert myself. There really is no need to tell the club worker or organizer since it does no good to complain to them about the ignorance of other people. I like your idea of some anonymous feedback, just to avoid a similar scene at a future event, or prepare the students so that they understand that being part of a minority is no laughing matter. I did have to laugh at the marriage idea, just kidding :lol: . I will take that as a compliment and say thanks. And you’re very right when you say that those kids will run into similar experiences where they might be on the receiving end. Thanks again for the moral support. Hi Imad, Thanks for sharing your experience. I don’t think the class speech incident is trivial at all, especially if you happen to support the minority view. What you ran into was a solid wall of conservative Christian heterosexism and a “not so good” English who should have dissected the poor arguments and flawed thinking, even if most of the class thought it was funny. By the way, these comedians (at the expense of other people) are not the kind who get called on for advice or opinions in the real world. At least you had 4 or 5 folks who agreed with you. That’s a start. Now if you could find an English teacher with analytical ability, the vote might turn out differently. Again thanks to all of you, your comments and advice made me feel a whole lot better. Thanks for taking the time. It is sincerely appreciated. Lorenz (&&&)
Well group mentality is quite a bane to minorities. It's the easiest form of ammunition for anti-homosexuals. And as for the biblical quoting....:bang: i mean for fuck sakes you bloody anti-homos stop bitching and moaning about what jesus said and come up with your own damn reasonings...i swear, people are like mindless drones when it comes to homos...their first reaction..."oh, i cant think of a good reason to be anti-homo...lets see what the bible said...." UGGG....i swear i roll my eyes every time, comtemplating whether or not to jump out of my seat and strangle that person who obviously needs it. Sorry for any christians, catholics etc. in here that may take offense to that or w/e. And the crude jokes?! GIVE ME A FUCKING BREAK! Like teachers have the responsiblity to protect the well-being of every student under their supervision...that includes verbal abuse...minority or not...i mean if he made an afican-american joke in class...he'd have detentions on him like white on rice. This needs to be stressed to teachers who obviously dont realise that there is a VERY high chance that there are homosexuals in their schools...like i've suggested before to Lorenz...you NEED to submit an anonymous complaint to the schoolboard or if you're school has one, give it to your guidance counciller and ask him/her to submit it at the next faculty/staff meeting... Here's something to keep in mind..."the world wont change itself, you have to do something to MAKE it change"..do yourself a favor...submit the complaint imad...you'll do yourself, and the generations proceeding you, a favor. Note to Administration: Sorry for the language but this just frustrates me how much homophobia and anti-homosexual views and people there still are in this world. And if the admin. plans to ban me...i dont see any real need, i mean we're all adolescents here....we've heard ten times worse...you know i curse alot so PM me if you want me to stop
This is my first post here at Empty Closets so I apologize for being heavy handed right out of the gates but ... First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew. Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist. Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me. Pastor Martin Niemöller Silence is deadly.
Very interesting opinion, and welcome to the board...hmm im not going to lie and say that it wasnt strong handed...but i admire your views as i would any other. But this time i am standing by Paul, you have to understand that there is a time to hold your tongue...if it was any other event i would agree with you. But if he did speak out at this Holocaust ceremony then he wouldve ruined it for the survivors. And if he had spoken out in class, he wouldve been putting a target on his forehead...and he might not have the support needed to help him endure the psycoligical blows that follow. Lorenz had the common sense to hold his tongue on both occaisons.... As for the three little words you spoke at the end...im not sure i completely understand. Do you care to explain what situation you were refering to etc.?
Generally I would agree - speak for yourself because nobody else will. However in this one case it simply wouldn't have been appropriate. It is, as they say "the exception that proves the rule".
