Just by looking over most of the posts in these forums you can tell there seems to be a strong belief that people are either gay or straight, and that people have a strong investment in these labels. (And I'm not going to trot out the dreaded "bi" word, since that's just another label.) The thing is, labels are used mostly to divide people into us and them, and of course it's easier to ascribe superiority over the label that describes "us." I really question the truthfulness of these labels. All the statistical evidence points out that people don't fall into black and white camps of straight and gay, the majority fall into a gray area in between. But apparently, most people, both straight and gay identified, don't like dealing with that, and would prefer ignoring it all together. I would even go so far as to say that the statistic for gays (I forget what it is: maybe three percent of the population) falls far short of what it actually is. I mean, think about how these statistics are gathered. Imagine a perfect stranger going up to someone asking, "Excuse me, but are you confirmably homosexual?" How likely is it that they would say, "Oh yes, absolutely. Just don't tell my parents."
Well, I'd think it was well known, especially by the LGBT people, that both physical gender, gender identity and sexual attraction all are shades of grey. I'm not overly concerned with what labels people use as long as they feel it defines them well enough. You can't have a million labels either, and categorising makes life and language easier as long as it is not discriminatory. Most people I know, and I mostly know people 25+, will define themselves according to a label, but would recognise that there are variations within that label. I know a lot of straight people that are not all that straight when it comes down to it even if they mostly fit in that category, and most aren't afraid to admit that either.
^^^^ Well, what concerns me about the labels are how they are used to separate people into "us" and "them", and how absolutely monolithic they are - I get this just from hearing how people talk. Personally I think it's to do with societal conditioning, which, when you scratch far enough below the surface, is ultimately homophobic.
Maybe I'm more of an optimist then I get the impression labels are mostly for convenience and when you scratch the surface, people generally understand the nuances ... Of course this does not apply to society as a whole, far from it, but it does apply to most people I know, on- and offline.
I guess I'm not really sure what you're point is other than the bit where you talk about separating "us and them". As for that, I personally don't feel that way about labels at all. I think of them as the closest fitting descriptive words for how to explain ourselves. You pick which one you want or subscribe to none and face the consequences of not having a simple way to talk about it. For example, I'm a Kinsey five. I have periodic sexual attraction to men and I don't even mind sleeping with them all that much, but it pales like the moon to the sun when placed next to my attraction to women. And when I imagine myself with someone for the rest of my life, it's a woman. I'm looking to date pretty much only women. So, thus I describe myself as gay, because that's the easiest way to explain it. I just don't think labels are the big deal everyone seems to think they are. You don't have to change yourself to fit one. You can have any one you want. And I really don't think that the "us versus them" mentality you sometimes see is really about the labels. I think it's about the discrimination and the fear of the LGBT community. "Straight people" haven't always been so nice to us. So we band together and love being LGBT despite all that. We just have to be careful we don't start using labels to make assumptions about people. Therein lies the problem. But it's not a problem with how we talk about ourselves or how we think of ourselves, it's a problem with how we treat other people and hope that they treat us. Don't make assumptions and try not to stereotype and labels work great. We are responsible for doing that ourselves, it's not about how we label ourselves. But about that last bit, you're right, I seriously doubt that there are a ton of accurate stats on how many LGBT people there are. For every one person who's out and proud, there is another who's in the closet so deep they don't know where the door is...
I guess my point is that all this talk about straight versus gay make me feel very alienated, like I have to be one or the other, otherwise I just don't belong. It's easy enough to disregard all of that when you live in a supportive community with plenty of people like you, but if you live in a vehemently straight little town like mine it make it much harder to feel like you belong.
It's human nature to categorize, to put it perfectly curtly. Could we all spend a little less time labeling people? Sure. But it's in our nature to understand our world, and to differentiate it. I don't think it's the talk of straight versus gay that makes you alienated; i think it's the connotation that comes with it. By being gay you're not the majority. I mean you don't often hear women saying, "This dichotomy of man/woman makes me feel alienated," it would be more due to the fact that until very very recently women were treated as second class. Like you say in your last line it's harder to feel like you belong in a vehemently straight environment is more due to societal structure than the actual label division.
I'm sorry that you feel alienated. That sucks. I actually live in the largest conservative city in my state. The gay community in my town is seemingly nonexistant, aside from the Pride Alliance at my school, I don't know many gay people. I get not feeling like you belong. I get that. But what I'm saying is that I think people put so much importance on labels as laws that they forget what labels really are: just a word to describe one part of you.
People have already pretty much covered everything there is to be said, but I do find it curious that you find people on here stick strictly to labels. I actually have the completely different feel because I feel everyone on here tries really hard to look past most labels and tries to just be themselves.' I do agree the labels are absolutely horrible if people allow them to run their lives, but as humans we love to categorize things. And this is actually a problem that can be found all over the place. Even in science you have various labels that try to categorize the living organism in our world, yet there are still some organisms that could fit into 3 of those categories and some scientists actually debate where to put them all the time. We also love adding new categorizes all the time so we can get better at categorizing. What I'm trying to say is that, as perfect as it sounds, it is just impossible to stop using labels for people or anything for that matter. What we can do is learn how to live with them and not allow them to restrict us, which can be a daily battle at times. Feelings alienated is probably one of the worst feelings, but know that you are far from alone and I hope that we can help you feel more welcomed. On another note, my friend just sent me this and I find it hilarious beacuse I was reading this thread when she sent it. Its interesting to see all the labels and ranges, though, as long as you don't take it too seriously Spoiler
Damn that's complicated ... and yeah. In biology the definition of species is also an artificial label. Ring-species screws up that definition for instance. Categories and labels are just practical that's all. Not something to define oneself by but the other way around.
I have no problems with using the gay/straight labels and I think of myself as gay without any issues whatsoever (plus I kind of laugh to myself when I tell myself I'm gay ). I personally don't understand why people wouldn't use these labels, but that's just me, I like the sound of them to be honest, they just appeal to me in a way that saying "he just isn't into her" is for other people. And as for bi-sexuals, I'm aware they exist and I have no problems with them (because some gay members seemingly do for whatever reason).
I honestly don't know whether to label myself as straight or gay. As a transgendered person, I feel (emotionally and mentally) like a guy who is attracted to girls, which would make me straight. But I'm non-op, haven't had testosterone or anything...so I'm perceived as a masculine woman attracted to other women (butch lesbian I suppose). So that would be gay. Part of me doesn't think it really matters and that I can date whomever I want based on a case-by-case preference and that I can just be myself and not pick up a label of any kind. If other people want to judge my behavior, more power to them. It isn't particularly scandalous. If someone asked me, "Are you gay?" I would answer yes. It answers all the questions that led to the question - Why doesn't Mav date guys? Why does Mav dress and act like a guy? (And hopefully sometime in the future, why does Mav have a girlfriend? :lol When I tell people, "I'm gay," it's really just to realign their expectations of me. Oh, if Mav is gay, then of course she's going to wear boots and ride a motorcycle and have a girlfriend and probably even have a kid or two with said girlfriend. That makes sense. I dislike labels, though, how do you tell people that you are attracted to mostly women, but a few guys? Is it really anybody's business who I'm sexually attracted to, except the person I'm actually attracted to (who is presumeably returning my affection)? It pisses me off that I am expected to have to explain myself to anyone about private stuff like that. Or defend my position. So I don't tell people about it unless they ask. And I use the label gay, but I don't like it. People should just take me as an individual and if someone is attracted to me, I may or may not reciprocate.
