Would you fight fire with fire?

[maverick]

How do you feel about GLBT people protecting themselves through self defense, up to and including lethal force?

The better part of me realizes that - ideally - pacificism is the way to go, and that violence never really solved anything.

The baser side of me [who gets really pissed off at innocent teenagers like Marcellus Andrews being brutally murdered by a group of bigots just because he was unarmed] realizes that it sure would be satisfying to have a mob target me for a beating, only to whip out a loaded revolver at them.

Bullies: Is that a gun in your pocket, or are you just happen to see me, f*****t?
Me: It's a gun.
Bullies: ...Oh.

(Barring that, I would really like to get a black belt so the chances of me getting murdered in a confrontation are significantly lower.)

Would you fight back?

[Veronica]

Originally Posted by maverick

Bullies: Is that a gun in your pocket, or are you just happen to see me, f*****t?
Me: It's a gun.
Bullies: ...Oh.

But yeah. I don't think guns solve any problems. It may save someone in an individual case, but if everyone have guns, that would just make matters worse.

[Leif]

I'm all for protecting yourself. I've been in far to many fights and as much as you train yourself, taking a hit really hurts. For this reason I've carried a knife on me since I was in middle school. (I would carry a gun on me too if I could.) I've only had to use it once and other then that it's just served to let other people know that I'm serious. I don't consider myself a violent person at all though. Just protective and paranoid.

[ezkill]

Violence is not always the answer; but neither are using our words. Some people are so stuck in their own sick little world and ideology, that they cannot differentiate between reality and their own thoughts.

With that being said... if you are ever being physically attacked, you should NEVER just take it and back down. You should always try to get away or defend yourself. Are weapons the answer? Not necessarily.... but why wouldn't you defend yourself? You have every right to use reasonable force to get away from your attacker.

Defending yourself will get you hurt, but you will have better chances of getting away and/or surviving than you would if you just sat there and took it.

Same goes for someone holding you at gunpoint and trying to kidnap you -- always run! Chances are, you're going to get hurt anyways.

[Owen]

As much as I try to be a pacifist, sometimes violence is really the only option (especially in cases of self defense). That said, if someone truly means to hurt you and isn't just trying to intimidate you, the sight of a gun or a knife will only escalate things and make them bolder, brasher, especially if they carry one of their own. Far better to just go for their week spots (groin, eyes, neck) and diffuse the situation immediately. Of course, that's in a situation that has already devolved into a fight. If you're trying to be proactive in preventing such a situation, I think the better solution is to just walk with confidence and pride, to keep your head held high and look self-assured. Basically, to look like you're not someone to be fucked with.

[thedreamwatch]

Originally Posted by ezkill

Same goes for someone holding you at gunpoint and trying to kidnap you -- always run! Chances are, you're going to get hurt anyways.

If someone is pointing a gun at me for ANY reason, I will do whatever the hell they tell me to. Trying to book it out of there will likely result in getting shot, whereas waiting might allow me to get away when there isn't a gun in my face...

That being said, I agree with Gamer am I.

[maverick]

If someone is pointing a gun at me for ANY reason, I will do whatever the hell they tell me to.

This is why I want to carry a concealed weapon. If you carry a gun, even your enemies have to listen to you. As the Pink Pistols like to say, "Armed gays don't get bashed."

I am not a violent person. I stop to move turtles out of the road. I carry groceries for old people. I squeal over babies. I tear up over especially poignant Hallmark commercials.

But if someone tried to jump me on the street for not doing anything but minding my own business, I don't feel like I would have any remorse about putting them in the hospital or killing them for it.

I don't really care what a person's motivations for attacking me are, but if you are trying to perpetrate a hate crime against me, that desn't exactly make me feel any worse about shooting you.

[thedreamwatch]

Originally Posted by maverick

This is why I want to carry a concealed weapon. If you carry a gun, even your enemies have to listen to you. As the Pink Pistols like to say, "Armed gays don't get bashed."

I am not a violent person. I stop to move turtles out of the road. I carry groceries for old people. I squeal over babies. I tear up over especially poignant Hallmark commercials.

But if someone tried to jump me on the street for not doing anything but minding my own business, I don't feel like I would have any remorse about putting them in the hospital or killing them for it.

I don't really care what a person's motivations for attacking me are, but if you are trying to perpetrate a hate crime against me, that desn't exactly make me feel any worse about shooting you.

I get what you're saying, but my point is, I don't think the issue of being able to carry concealed weapons is simple enough for me to make my mind up right away as to whether it would actually make me more safe. I don't think so. I'm scared of guns. Everyone should be. I'm scared of other people having them--whether or not they're the bad guys. Good people get hurt too when there are guns everywhere. Kids and people who don't know how to use them properly... or what if there's something wrong with it? It's horrifying to think about.

But I do think that people who are worried about being attacked should take some basic self-defense classes. No doubt. Carrying pepper spray or other things like that is something I would consider doing if I were in place where I was concerned about my safety.

I guess what I'm saying is, I think learning self-defense and being safe is good. I think carrying around guns is more than likely going to end badly.

[maverick]

I can understand that. Very few people who own guns or are exposed to them have the level of proficiency to be around them safely.

I used to have a handgun when I lived on my own because my old neighborhood was pretty shady and I was worried about being broken into by meth addicts, but I sold it because I have been deeply suicidal during several points of my life, and I didn't think having a loaded handgun constantly at arm's length was very smart in that context. Also...I doubted my conviction to pull the trigger on anyone.

I still live in a home with guns, but none of them are mine and they are all locked up in a safe because there is a toddler in the house. So they're not so much for home break-ins as they are for TEOTWAWKI.

[thedreamwatch]

Originally Posted by maverick

So they're not so much for home break-ins as they are for TEOTWAWKI.

obvs for the zombie apocalypse.

[RedState]

Self defense is self defense...regardless who you are. If someone jumps you with out any reason at all, you have a right to defend yourself. The gray area has always been when it is appropriate to use lethal force versus, um, more traditional means so-to-speak.

Pulling a gun is something no one should take lightly...meaning, I don't think someone should pull a gun on someone just because some bully is picking on them and calls them "faggot" and pushes them around a little...just kick them in the balls and sucker punch them if all else fails.

If it is someone that takes the bullying to a different level and is intent on doing you great bodily harm...well that is a different story..and a little easier to explain to a jury.

Several states have laws called "The Castle Doctrine" in relation to home invasion...meaning that if a perp is physically in your home the use of deadly force is completely authorized...the intent to do harm is already established.

[ezkill]

I don't advocate pulling a weapon on anyone for the reason of being bullied. Only use a weapon when it is absolutely necessary for self-defense. Always give the other person(s) a loud and audible warning to back off, and that you have a weapon. This covers you under most laws. Always try to get away first, but if you can't, then self-defense is the only option. You have to do as much as is reasonable to deescalate the situation.

I agree with maverick, carry some pepper spray, or a whistle. The best option, however, is to always travel with a friend when you are going to a sketchy part of town, or an area where you suspect you will have trouble. If I am walking around when it's dark outside, I am always in a well-lit area or walking with a friend.

You shouldn't be confrontational when the other party has the intention of hurting you. What I said above doesn't just apply to LGBT bullying situations, it applies to most (if not all) dangerous situations.

And by the way... Sure, you can listen to the person pulling the gun on you. This makes sense when it's a robbery... but if the person holding the gun intends to kidnap you or transport you somewhere, the likelihood of being hurt (mortally so) is very high, and your chances are better to run and get shot at. Running in zig-zags and moving around as much as possible reduce the other person's accuracy with the gun. Most people who will pull a gun on you don't really know how to aim, hold, or use one properly anyways.

[Noahroxursox]

I support self defence, but I don't think carrying a weapon around is the answer, only because it makes the world less safe for the rest of us, and there's a chance that it will be takenvand used against you

[maverick]

Several states have laws called "The Castle Doctrine" in relation to home invasion...meaning that if a perp is physically in your home the use of deadly force is completely authorized...the intent to do harm is already established.

I've heard of this, but I don't know how helpful self-defense laws are to LGBT folks, since most of the assaults against them happen on the street (or outside the home).

[Markio]

Fighting fire with water is a lot more effective.

[txnathrt]

Many states, including mine, have Castle law. And while I am armed, I have a conceal and.carry and extensive training as well as extensive hand to hand combat training, closed quarters combat training and mixed martial arts training. I think it is important for everyone to realize, no matter what you choose to arm yourself with, if you do nt undertake some form of basic self defense, you can be easily disarmed and that weapon will then be used against you and become a distinct disadvantage.

[malachite]

yes

[starfish]

If you are going to carry fully understand the laws in you state. Know where it is legal to carry, and what is considered self defense in your state.

Also understand that in any confrontation pulling a gun will quickly escalate the situation. If you pull a gun someone is going home in a body bag. You don't shoot to injure you shoot to kill.

It is not something to take lightly.

[Z3ni]

I don't think LGBT people should know defense.. I think EVERYONE should know how to defend theirself.

I'm not a violent person, at least I'd like to think, but if I get into a fight, I know I'll get pretty violent.

[Revan]

See the laws in Canada are kinda totally unfortunate laws when it comes to actually protecting yourself. I mean I would love to be able to carry something to protect myself as I'm only an Orange Belt in Tae Kwon Do, but basically how Canada works is, if you attack someone who attacks you and kill them, you go to jail. And if you attack someone who attacks you and you injure them, they can sue you and you'll probably lose. I've heard it happen so many times in cases of things like break-ins, burglaries, etc. It's the downside of Canada.