Climate negotiations in Bali are in crisis. Things were looking good till now: near-consensus on a delicate deal, including 2020 targets for rich countries, in return for which China and the developing world would do their part over time. IPCC scientists have said such targets are needed to prevent catastrophe. But Japan, the US and Canada are banding together to wreck the deal, and the rest of the world is starting to waver... We can’t let three stubborn governments throw away the planet's future. We have until the end of Friday to do everything we can. Please sign our emergency global petition below -- we'll deliver it through stunts at the summit, a full-page ad in the Jakarta Post in Asia, and directly to country delegates to stiffen their nerve against any bad compromise. Add your name to the campaign below now! http://www.avaaz.org/en/bali_emergency/ ------------------------------------------------- To any skeptics: This thread is not a debate on whether or not Climate Change is a hoax, if you think it's a load of crap, then go on your way and leave me to mine. I'm just spreading the word to people who do care.
Umm, any more information that this? Like, what exactly is the basis for Canada/US/Japan's objections?
They haven't really released any details pertaining what's happening inside the talks, but John Baird (Environment Minister of Canada) has de-ratified Kyoto on the grounds of "economic collapse". Which is senseless as the millions of jobs created by converting this old economy into a "green economy" will more than make up for the loss of jobs in the petroleum industry etc. And even if we do lose ten million or so dollars. Think about the long-term not just for the Earth (which is something i am obviously staunch about protecting), but we're running out of oil with no Plan B. So doesn't this all have to happen anyway? Why not get a head start before the oil runs out.
And i have ALOT of information about Environmental issues, just tell me what you're looking into and i'll hook you up. :icon_wink
yeah i have beeen meaning to read about this but I havent been botherd.... I think Australia is stil are not prepared to commit to global cuts of emissions by 2020 along with japan and canada. Kevin Rudd is still waiting for economic impacts of cuts up to 40% by 2020 whitch is stupid because not making those cuts will cause horrible effects to the ecconomy mutch worse than what possibly could happen by cutting them.
The basis for Canada's objections is that our Prime Minister Harper and his government are a bunch of fucking corporate lackey morons who don't care how global warming may affect all Canadians as long as they have enough money to avoid the ill effects. The whole "environment vs. economy" "issue" is such a fucking false dichotomy anyway, because seriously, if you have no liveable environment, what the fuck good is an economy? Truly, which one can we do without? An environment or an economy? Even IF "going green" ultimately hurts a country's economy (and as Proud1p4 has mentioned, that's an IF, not a given), how on Earth (ha ha) can we afford not to take that hit? But you know, global warming: it's a theory. My friend thinks that obviously we should consider the fact that climate change might be a result of intelligent heating. :lol:
Gah dam enviroment Were like all in drought yet we are sinking at the same time! I though Japan was fairly enviromently friendly exept for the whole eating whale thing... Im just sick of all the pussy nations to scared to stand up to america
I was tempted to say that, but figured a quote might be a big more productive. :icon_wink That was directly from John Baird by the way. I could not agree more my friend. "It is only after every tree has been cut, every ocean fished, every quarry mined and oil reserve drained that we will realize that humans cannot thrive off of money." (or at least i think thats how it went, im going off of memory. Great proverb all the same) Exactly. It has to happen sometime. My view on it is: Even if this all is a hoax or a false theory, what harm could a more stable economy do? (And it's better safe then sorry, but that sounds more cliche) 1) Imagine a world where we don't start wars over oil. Green alternatives rely on Earth's renewable resources like solar power, which you don't have to shoot a person to get. 2) CO2 may not harm us per se, but put your head next to an exhaust pipe, it can't be good for us either. So why not go electric for the hell of it? 3) Why not eat less meat? I mean do you really need that 6 pound steak? Have you even tried a quality soy burger? They are heaven. And eating lower on the food chain makes scientific sense. (ie: you feed a cow 100,000 pounds of wheat over it's life to provide for a few meals when that grain could have made umpteen loaves of bread etc.) These are general statements of course, i'm not talking directly to you joey, as you obviously understand this already. :icon_bigg
Please note: I've notice the skeptics haven't passed up this opportunity to make their points as well, in a separate thread. No matter. :icon_wink My only reply will be not to waste your time arguing with them, as they are as thick headed as their forefathers and you will not win. Everything has room for a reasonable doubt and they will take this opportunity to falsify your claims hereby instilling their beliefs into the undecided. Posting there only bumps the thread and keeps it alive. Instead spend your time signing some other related petitions: http://www.avaaz.org/en/bali_emergency/ http://www.conservation.org/act/get_involved/Pages/stoptheclock.aspx The above sites have extensive information on environmental subjects. I'd recommend signing up for email updates. Peace and love!
Even if Climate Change were not to be cause by Humans we still need to do something about energy production when we run out of fosil fuels whitch will happen the sceptics often say Renewables arnt efective enough to produce energy on a comercial scale so why arnt they investing in renwables on the basis we will run out of non renewables... Is it denied by the sceptics that the caps are melting and that the sea levals are rising what are the Climate Change Sceptics doing about it other than deny humans are the cause? I think we should be past the point where we can denny this is hapaning i recently watched a 20/20 segment on you tube and the guy said we have holocaust deniers and we have climate change deniers and i dont see mutch diffrence between the two.. you dont bring a holocaust denier in each time you talk about the holocaust so you dont bring in a climate change denier every time you talk about climate change....
Alright guys, with all due respect, i know i contributed a little but i want this thread to be more about getting the information out there than inviting debate in, there are other threads for that.
Just a reminder: We have a little over 24 hours left before the Climate talks reach their peak in Bali. Have you signed the petition yet. http://www.avaaz.org/en/bali_emergency/ No? Well here's cute little videos to lighten the mood. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxFX8Y4wMJY&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wi7daz84i1U&feature=related
Hmm, that's very interesting. I guess YOU are the only person who gets to have an opinion. People like you are the reason why countries like the U.S., Canada, and Japan don't ever do anything environmentally. You shove all of this data (which has yet to prove humans have anything to do with global warming) and just expect them to take immediate, drastic action. An economy can't simply go green over night, there's just absolutely no way entire industries can turn a switch and become instantly "green."
Don't say you want to end debate in this thread and then call an entire group of people thickheaded. That just kind of defeats the point.
Congrats people!! 169 399 signatures in just 45 hours. The new goal is 175 000 signatures to bring before the delegates in Bali. There is still time! Here's the petition once more. Make sure to take a look at the picture on that page, it's the ad that our signatures help fund! Quite exciting. And here's something of interest for those peeping toms out there: A live video feed inside the conference And updates directly from the UN Here's to hope!
There was a report on the TV in australia talking about how energy unefecient the whole conference was because the amount of air conditiong there was... I wouldent say it was the best outcome because there was no mention of targets but atleast eventualy the US got out of the way of progress..
