pfox and ex-gays

[dreamcatcher]

Parents and Friends of Ex-Gays and Gays (PFOX)

I was reading through the Pfox website and I'm a bit confused as to what their deal is. Sometimes they seem like radical Christians who believe homosexuality is a sin and other times they seem like understanding people who want to end discrimination for gays. However what really got me interested were their articles that talk about people who say they are ex gay . So when I read these articles I can't help but wonder if there is some merit to what they're saying. Do some people really get rid of their same sex attractions completely? It's easy to say that they were simply bisexuals and are now just choosing to act on the straight part but we don't know that. We can't really say what the other person is feeling So do you think there are certain experiences that would trigger someone to be gay? And is it ok for these people to seek therapy? Because while I believe for most people homosexuality is unchangeable and biological, some people do become gay because of environmental issues. I actually had an aunt who was in several abusive relationship with different men and went with a woman because of it. While this may be the stereotype, there is always some minor truth to stereotypes.

Then again I may just have wishful thinking, since I live in a homophobic environment and my family and their friends spent a good hour during thanksgiving talking about all the immoral gays they've met in their life and how they wouldn't accept that into their families. So there's that. Anyways thoughts and opinions would be appreciated!

[kellymporta]

When I was trying to stop being gay a couple of months ago, that was one of the websites I came across with. Although I like the idea that maybe I could stop being gay, that website actually made me lost some hope. The problem with that website is that many of the ex-gay testimonials are similar. "I was gay and unhappy, found God, and I'm happy with my new life". The problem is that those types of testimonials don't apply to me because of my religious views. Although I believe that God likely exists, I don't think He actually intervenes in the development of the universe (in other words, I don't believe in miracles). That means that in my opinion neither God or prayer can change your sexual orientation.

My question for those ex-gays would be: How can you stop being gay if God is necessary but you have such a different view regarding Him?

[Kerze]

Originally Posted by dreamcatcher

other times they seem like understanding people who want to end discrimination for gays.

That's because they're clever. They want you to think that they care for you and that being gay is a bad thing that's harming you. In reality all 'ex-gay therapy' is is systematic psychological abuse. It makes some people repress their orientation and does damage in the process; the fact that it is wildly discredited by every union of psychologists shows you what a load of shit it really is.

[fiddledeedee]

I don't know about PFOX specifically, nor much about "ex-gay therapy", so I will only look at the questions you've put that are less specific to them.

Do some people get rid of their same-sex attractions completely?

Well, it is impossible for us to tell; we cannot get inside their head. It could be that they did, that they think they did, that they never had them, or that they are bisexual and now ignoring part of that. They will probably say the first, which makes sense, but many people probably assume that it is actually the third of those things. There is evidence somewhere that eludes me to show that sexuality is genetic, so changing orientation seems unlikely to me. We cannot tell what it is for certain, however, as we do not feel what they do and therefore it is wrong to lable them with something other than what they choose. After all, how would you like it if someone did that to you?

So do you think that there are certain experiences that would trigger someone to be gay?

There are some things that might cause some people to want to be with a different sex than who they like "by default". Sexual abuse/assault at any stage in life could do this to some, but it will not do so to everyone and if someone feels that this is the case with them, that does not invalidate their sexuality. (See here for more.)

And is it ok for these people to seek therapy?

Of course – it is reccommended, even. If someone needs a therapist to help them work through issues, confusion, or problems caused by rape, sexual assault, etc. then they deserve that help. The therapist should be aiming to help them figure out or confirm their sexuality, though, not change it.

This is only my take on it, of course. I am sorry that your family are so prejudiced and all.

[Doctor Faustus]

Call me quick to judge, but ex-gay to me just sounds like pure denial. End of.

But essentially, what fiddledeedee said.

Hope it all works out for you.

[Mogget]

The ex-gay movement is primarily about suppressing homosexual urges. Most ex-gays, if pressed, will confess that they don't feel much of an attraction to the opposite sex. One prominent ex-gay couple took months after marriage before they had sex, they claimed this was because they didn't know how to.

[Valley Cactus]

Originally Posted by Doctor Faustus

Call me quick to judge, but ex-gay to me just sounds like pure denial. End of.

This. It's a load of crap - I saw this guy on the news say "I got out of the gay movement; I was gay, now I am ex-gay."

I was just sitting there like .

[dreamcatcher]

Originally Posted by Liam

The ex-gay movement is primarily about suppressing homosexual urges. Most ex-gays, if pressed, will confess that they don't feel much of an attraction to the opposite sex. One prominent ex-gay couple took months after marriage before they had sex, they claimed this was because they didn't know how to.

LOL! Didn't know how... terrible excuse. Thanks for the posts everyone. I think I just got lead astray by some of their nice comments and "success" stories that they almost made me believe that I could somehow "get cured" if I really tried to. I guess I just need to start avoiding these kind of sites and working more on the self acceptance part. Thanks again!

[NoPlanB]

As someone who has been heavily involved in this in the past, I have to say that the "Ex-gay ministries" are not as bad as they sound.

Most of the revolve around the concept of abandoning self for the greater gain of following Jesus. It has little to nothing to do with actually getting rid of the attractions. 95% of ex-gay people I've talked to still experience same-sex attractions. It's really a support group created for those who believe that homosexuality is a sin and who believe their lifestyle contradicts their beliefs.

The people themselves are pretty awesome. They aren't hateful or crazy at all (unless you count Michele Bachmann). In fact, they're some of the nicest, most understanding people I've met.

That being said, it didn't really work out for me, not anything on their part, but because I worked through my own issues.

[TheEdend]

The main reason why the ex-gay ministries are so confusing is because the ex-gay movement came from some people who were truly trying to help others and were truly trying to help themselves. They don't mean any harm, but the problem is that study after study has proven that it isn't an effective "treatment."

Many of the founders of Exodus international, one of the biggest ex-gay in the US, have been coming ford saying that it simply doesn't work. Also, two of them later became a couple.

Here are some of their interviews about it if you are interested.

Exodus Co-Founder: The Inherent Harm In Ex-Gay Programs:

+ YouTube Video

The Creation of Exodus International:

+ YouTube Video

[PlutonianShore]

What a lot of people don't understand is that homosexuality isn't a choice. However, that being said, I believe in the nurture-over-nature argument (since there hasn't been any sufficient scientific evidence to support the existence of a 'gay' gene and religiously speaking, it goes against the Laws of Creation). My opinion is that homosexuality is rather caused by an influx of subtle influences over which one is powerless during childhood (I know I'm gay due to the abusive role women played during my life, also, the fact that my father was pretty distant in my upbringing). It isn't something you can change or choose. In this case, the goal ex-gay ministries try to accomplish is futile and instead cause more pain than actual healing. I believe they mean well, I really do. But it's a nonexistent battle.

[dreamcatcher]

Originally Posted by PlutonianShore

What a lot of people don't understand is that homosexuality isn't a choice. However, that being said, I believe in the nurture-over-nature argument (since there hasn't been any sufficient scientific evidence to support the existence of a 'gay' gene and religiously speaking, it goes against the Laws of Creation). My opinion is that homosexuality is rather caused by an influx of subtle influences over which one is powerless during childhood (I know I'm gay due to the abusive role women played during my life, also, the fact that my father was pretty distant in my upbringing). It isn't something you can change or choose. In this case, the goal ex-gay ministries try to accomplish is futile and instead cause more pain than actual healing. I believe they mean well, I really do. But it's a nonexistent battle.

Oh wow that's interesting! I feel like most people who say they are gay think it's due to something biological. Although, I don't think that saying homosexuality is mostly nurture is true. I have a mom, a dad, grew up in a religious household, had both male and female role models, yet I'm still gay. I also read an article saying that people who are raped, or grow up in a single household aren't more or less likely to become gay. I think it's a combination of both the nature and nurture, although I do lean towards biological.

The whole ex-gay thing makes me feel really sad for those people in the program. It just seems so exhausting to have to push all your feelings away. I'm already exhausted from trying and I'm only 20!

Oh and thank you for the videos TheEdend