Predjudice against 'straight-acting' gays?

[lowdownweather]

Someone I'm acquainted with and who who is gay and fairly obvious about it found out I was and was quite offended and angry.

Why?

Just based on outward appearances, patterns of speech and mannerisms, you can't tell that I'm gay. I'm not in the closet or hiding anything. It's just that I just don't bring it up unless people ask because there's no reason to. I'm not hyper-masculine by any means and don't care at all for beer or sports, but am not swishy either.

I sort of laughed it off at the time but over the past few days, it's been bothering me more and more. What's so offensive and off-putting about a gay person who isn't obviously gay? Do they think I believe that I'm ashamed of my gayness?

sorry if I'm ranting. It just really pissed me off...

[JamesD]

There's nothing offensive to me about it. I'm pretty much the same way (except I like beer and sports). My sexuality is a huge part of me, but its not all of me.

[Owen]

Originally Posted by lowdownweather

Do they think I believe that I'm ashamed of my gayness?

That could be it. It could also be that he exaggerates his swishiness because that's the only way he can feel comfortable identifying as gay (it could be a way for him to "own" his gayness), and you being a more low-key gay man threatens his idea that he has to act flamboyant to be okay with being gay. Or it could be that he thinks that the only "real" gay identity is that of the flamboyant gay, and you not being obvious threatens his idea about how the world works. It's hard to do much more than speculate without the details of what he said. All in all, though, I'd say your guess is the most likely explanation.

[stupidIvan]

It insinuates that you're hiding it to the other person, even when you're just being yourself. It's a silly thing, but apparently to some people if you're not on fire or if you're not running around lifting heavy things and work for a moving service (baad lesbian stereotype) or something, that you're hiding who you really are or something.

I've gotten that from people, just cause I don't exactly look like the perfect image of a homosexual I guess???????? It's a weird culture thing, and I don't quite get it either. It's pretty upsetting though! :::: ( Fewer and fewer people are like that though, so don't let it bother you a terrible amount!

[Mogget]

I've heard more from the other way round. A lot of gay people are really disdainful of effeminate gay men. Gay personals will frequently ask for "straight-acting" gay men, or "masculine." Here on EC there's regularly someone posting that either they can't be gay because they act straight or complaining that effeminate gays are ruining it for the rest of us.

[Artemicion]

Originally Posted by Owen

That could be it. It could also be that he exaggerates his swishiness because that's the only way he can feel comfortable identifying as gay (it could be a way for him to "own" his gayness), and you being a more low-key gay man threatens his idea that he has to act flamboyant to be okay with being gay. Or it could be that he thinks that the only "real" gay identity is that of the flamboyant gay, and you not being obvious threatens his idea about how the world works. It's hard to do much more than speculate without the details of what he said. All in all, though, I'd say your guess is the most likely explanation.

As Owen puts it. Simplified down, the person is probably mentally insecure.

[Kidd]

Originally Posted by Mogget

I've heard more from the other way round. A lot of gay people are really disdainful of effeminate gay men. Gay personals will frequently ask for "straight-acting" gay men, or "masculine." Here on EC there's regularly someone posting that either they can't be gay because they act straight or complaining that effeminate gays are ruining it for the rest of us.

This.

[lowdownweather]

Something I'm surprised by is why more straight people aren't offended or angered by straight-seeming (I'm saying that instead of -acting not because I'm ashamed, but because I'm not acting; it's the way I actually am) gay people. We're like Cylons!

[Markio]

I believe that there are gay men who are simply very effeminate, as well as there are gay men who are simply very masculine. As with any group, I'm sure there are many gay men who feel obliged to behave in a certain manner because of how they are perceived by others, whether that means "toning it down" or "turning up the flame."

What frustrates me is when people insist that all gay men who are "_________" are putting on an act. I have straight friends who think gay men are simply pretending to be really flamboyant, as though they must be lying and therefore of lower character. I also have gay friends who act very judgmental of "straight-acting" gays, as though they must be acting "straight" on purpose because they're not comfortable being gay. There are masculine gay men who feel proud that they can pass as straight, and see femininity as a negative personality trait to have.

This is what ties sexual orientation and gender together, IMO. The dominant political notion in our society is that "hetero > homo" and "male/masculinity > female/femininity." Those identities can be combined in so many different ways, from "masculine-straight-female" to "feminine-gay-male." Rather than divide ourselves because of perceived differences in behavior, I think we ought to be able to recognize that which unites us and have some respect for those with different experiences and mannerisms.

*steps down from soap box*

I'm fairly androgynous, slightly more masculine, I suppose. It has hurt my feelings in the past when people assume I'm faking my behavior. I'm being myself!

[Mlpguy88]

I'm the same way, no one thinks I'm gay, most of us aren't obvious, stereotypes tend to be wrong anyway. I'f he is mad at you I'd say that is his issue and he will probably get past it.

[IanGallagher]

I think it's because we're provoked by that which we do not understand. For some gay guys, I think it's because we have an easier time fitting in.

I'm bi, just by looking at me or interacting with me - unless I tell you, you'd never be able to tell. Hell, my sister claimed to have a brilliant gaydar yet she couldn't pick her own brother up on it lol. I've had more gay guys having a problem with me being bi than guys who are straight, girls are a whole other story. Mostly these gay guys just want to demand I'm gay and say they know me better than myself which is seriously irritating. I'm also not the only bi guy to have experienced biphobia from gay guys. I've never encountered this because of being straight-acting though. But, I think it might narrow down to the same thing - feeling threatened by the masculinity aspect of the LGBT spectrum because it enables us to fit into society easier while they have/had to struggle with it.

The more straight-acting a guy is, the more you see how truly narrow minded some gay guys can be. I guess, since it's happening this way as well... I personally don't see why there has to be a divide.

[needshelp]

i think people need to get this straight. you cannot act straight or gay. you can act masculine and feminine. with that said, i feel that certain people have this idea that their sexual orientation should dictate their mannerisms, personalities, what they like, what they shouldn't like, and the whole nine. you should just be yourself. if you happen to be an effeminate guy whether you're straight or gay, be that. if you're masculine, be that. you are only making yourself ignorant by revolving your life around an aspect of yourself.

i think it's lame as hell for someone to say because you're gay, you have to act gay or else you're not that. sorry but whether i chose to wear baggy jeans or tight jeans, chose to wear purple or black, and etc, i'm not going to let my sexual orientation make me compromise what i like, who i am, and what i want to do. i feel sorry for somebody that is the same way. that person is uncomfortable with themselves. sometimes, i think that there's just as much gay people outthere that are afraid that they might be straight or bisexual like there are straight people outthere that are afraid that they might be gay or bisexual. if you know who you are, none of that wouldn't matter.

[IanGallagher]

Originally Posted by needshelp

sometimes, i think that there's just as much gay people outthere that are afraid that they might be straight or bisexual like there are straight people outthere that are afraid that they might be gay or bisexual. if you know who you are, none of that wouldn't matter.

Definitely true. And to change the "think" into 'know'. I might be wrong with phrasing, but I personally see gay as having no interest in girls. I've ran across both Kinsey 4's and 5's who say they're gay but also that they love having sex with girls. I also met a Kinsey 3 who said he likes guys and girls equally, but labels himself as gay just so his parents will have an easier time with it and not constantly question him. I'm a kinsey 2, from the "straight" side and for a long time I had difficulty admitting that I like guys. I thought of myself as a "strange straight guy" - I just couldn't let go of that "straight" adjective for some reason.

[lowdownweather]

Sorta related: has anyone had other people act completely surprised when they came out because it was totally unexpected?

[IanGallagher]

My supportive best dude friend did, although all over text.

"Are you sure you're bi?"
"Wow, dude. Wow lol."
"You're positive?"

Keep in mind he's the "cool kid in class" - I always went to him when I wanted or needed advice about girls. He was the first person I'd tell about a girl I like a lot. He's also seen how hurt I became over girls lol. I'm a film guy, hate sports, but finding out I love going to the gym - kinda surprised about that one actually - so I'm not a macho "he man" but I definitely don't give off any sort of gay vibe at all other than being into the arts. Which, a lot of really macho dudes even are lol - Hugh Jackman gay on broadway after playing the Wolverine and kicking ass.

But, not in a "no you're not!!!" sort of way. Just in a thought you were joking but still supportive way.

[needshelp]

Originally Posted by IanGallagher

Definitely true. And to change the "think" into 'know'. I might be wrong with phrasing, but I personally see gay as having no interest in girls. I've ran across both Kinsey 4's and 5's who say they're gay but also that they love having sex with girls. I also met a Kinsey 3 who said he likes guys and girls equally, but labels himself as gay just so his parents will have an easier time with it and not constantly question him. I'm a kinsey 2, from the "straight" side and for a long time I had difficulty admitting that I like guys. I thought of myself as a "strange straight guy" - I just couldn't let go of that "straight" adjective for some reason.

well, i guess sexuality being fluid or is exactly defined is true. either that or people just don't want to accept their situation for what it is. whatever keeps people happy.

you know, i just think that sometimes, people are afraid of just being real with themselves that they just feel comfortable with a label and going along with things. i doubt that one's actions can overall determine who they really are. you know, sexual orientation is about who you are attracted to mostly or equally. you can be a straight guy and think a guy is hot or even have sex with a guy. it doesn't make you any more or less straight because at the end of the day, girls turn you on more than guys do. i think someone who is secure with their sexuality will just go along with the flow, will look back at their past and their present and try to make sense of everything. like myself, whenever i see an attractive woman and an attractive man, i know that there's that spark where i feel what you would call i guess "love" when it comes to the man and not with the woman. there's something that will make me feel connected to the guy the point where i can fall in love with him, get into a emotional bond with him. it's just a natural occurence. i cannot say that i've felt that way for a women. almost all if not all the time, i've had to force and push those feelings onto myself for a woman. in other words, i really didn't like her and i never could so i guess if i would feel like a relationship would be pointless.

but i just believe that regardless, being gay or being straight is more of which gender you are more attracted to. most people are bisexual to a degree but one thing for sure is that, you will know where you stand over time and let's say someone happens to be gay, that doesn't make them less gay if they find one or two women sexually attractive or even masturbate to some women. that doesn't mean that they like or are attracted to them.

[IanGallagher]

I guess that's how some people could see it. I just see straight as 100% into girls. And gay as 100% into guys. Because I've heard some people who claim thinking about guys sexually in any way disgusts them. Just like I've heard some people claim thinking about girls sexually in any way disgusts them. Thus, I've always viewed being interested in both rather than disgusted in those sexual terms as being bi. That both move in the middle from some point which determines a 'leaning.' But even in the bi world it's difficult - for example I sometimes have periods where I'm totally boy crazy then periods where I'm totally girl crazy - it's rare that I feel that "falling for" spark towards a guy though in the romantic sense but it has happened. By romantic I mean boyfriend sense, not the platonic "very cool" sense or bromance for lack of a better term. Just not as often romantically, mostly when guys enter my mind it's just a friends with benefits thing - which, sorry for being a bi stereotype lol. Girls are just - I don't know - there's a pheramone that they unknowingly give off I think which makes those who go for them addicted. Like a drug. Very base carnal instincts. The Spartans went off to do battle and have sex with each other then returned to happily bang their wives. Things are more civilized now, obviously, but kinda gives a look into my brain that that makes sense on some level.

[fiddledeedee]

Originally Posted by lowdownweather

Sorta related: has anyone had other people act completely surprised when they came out because it was totally unexpected?

When I came out to my whole school in July, this was the reaction I got. We were on a class hike (well, walk in the sun to nearby villages) with 2 other classes, making nearly a hundred people, and I told the class gossip that I was bi. For the next several hours, word was travelling up and down the line, and prettymuch every person came up to me and asked if it was true. The most common comments were "How do you know?" "Who do you fancy?" and "I never thought you would be; you act so straight.". It was so funny to watch peolpe I knew floundering for what to say to something that none of them had prediced!

[WeirdnessMagnet]

... And that's why I hated hetero/homonormativity before I even knew the words. "Men are supposed to," "Women are supposed to," "Gays are supposed to," "You are supposed to." Who exactly did suppose anything about me and everyone else all those silly things that are obviously wrong? Why everyone is so enthralled by this "supposer" if all they need is to look into themselves to realize that no, they aren't what they're "supposed to be," and neither is everyone else?

[Kidd]

Originally Posted by WeirdnessMagnet

... And that's why I hated hetero/homonormativity before I even knew the words. "Men are supposed to," "Women are supposed to," "Gays are supposed to," "You are supposed to." Who exactly did suppose anything about me and everyone else all those silly things that are obviously wrong? Why everyone is so enthralled by this "supposer" if all they need is to look into themselves to realize that no, they aren't what they're "supposed to be," and neither is everyone else?

That reminds me of a quote from Tina Fey's Bossypants; “Lesson learned? When people say, "You really, really must" do something, it means you don't really have to. No one ever says, "You really, really must deliver the baby during labor." When it's true, it doesn't need to be said.”