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Choice

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by wallrose, May 20, 2012.

  1. wallrose

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    I've just been arguing with some people on a forum that genuinely thought being gay/bi/whatever was a choice. They actually thought that people actively chose to be stoned to death, and refused rights and just generally hated. They were complete morons completely unable to listen to logic, and I'm just really pissed off right now.

    Has anyone else had to have this kind of conversation before? With a moronic brick wall incapable of listening to reason or taking an alternate viewpoint into consideration? If so, what do you do about it? I'm not usually one to get worked up over an argument, but I'm particularily annoyed right now.

    I think the worst part was that they were saying the had no problem with homosexuals, and that they didn't care who we married and such. I just don't understand how you can be tolerant yet so completely ignorant.
     
  2. RocketJim

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    This reminds me so much of my granma. She fully believes that there's no such thing as bisexual or trans. And even though she claims to support homosexuality she says some of the most homophobic things. My method of dealing is just to ignore it. I know, not the best way of dealing with things but I live with her so don't really want to cause problems. It really cheeses me off though. Very large part of my not coming out yet.
     
  3. Mogget

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    I've said it before and I'll say it again: arguing that homosexuality is okay because it's not a choice, or even that it matters whether it's a choice in any sense is a terrible thing to do from a rhetorical standpoint. Why? Because it implies that if being gay were a choice, it would be a morally wrong one. Essentially it's saying, "It's okay to be gay because we can't help ourselves." If being gay were a choice, it would be a completely acceptable and okay choice to make.

    Furthermore, there is a significant subset of the LGBT population that do choose to be "stoned to death, and refused rights and just generally hated." They're called bisexuals. Every bi person could, if they so chose, date only people of the opposite sex. They could avoid queer spaces where they'd be likely to meet a lover of the same sex, and go through their lives completely unhampered by their sexuality. But you know what? Plenty of them don't. Plenty of them say, "I like men/women enough that I'm willing to go through Hell to be with the person I love."
     
  4. thylvin

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    People will say all kinds of things that's nor nearly even close to the truth. That's because they don't really understand, but don't want to find out either.

    I once had that kinda argument on mIRC, i got so mad that they wouldn't listen to reason that I did some really stupid stuff including kicking out people out of the chat room. well i got kicked out and band because i kicked out the owner of the chat room cause he was just a pain dumb idiot!
     
  5. Lewis

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    I personally don't really care as long as I know that I didn't choose to be gay. It's not easy to change peoples viewpoints on that, so I don't try. I do correct some of my friends though (friends which think I'm straight) when they say things like, '_____ is gay now!' I say, 'don't you mean they were always gay, but have just come out to everyone?'.

    I also don't agree with the remarks on bisexual people choosing to be 'stoned to death'. My knowledge of bisexual people is that their attraction varies, they can't just choose who they're going to be in a relationship with. Also I'm pretty sure bisexual people, as much as ourselves just want to be open with others about who they are and be able to talk about it, it's not them necessarily choosing to be hated. I really think the views on bisexuality are still a little backward and if I'd have read one of the above comments if I were bisexual, I would be genuinely upset by it.
     
  6. Hmmmmm

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    As a child and teenager I had to listen to my parents and other people say things like that. It infuriated me, but I never felt I could say that.
     
  7. Ianthe

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    The fact that homosexuality isn't a choice is not the ONLY reason that it's okay. It would be morally acceptable even if it were a choice.

    That doesn't mean that the fact that it isn't a choice is not a valid supporting argument for it being morally acceptable. Arguing that it isn't a choice does not have to entail conceding that it would be morally unacceptable if it were.

    All of us have the option of not pursuing our feelings, not only bisexuals. And in fact, there are people, both gay and bisexual, who make that choice. For gay people, this involves giving up the possibility of having a satisfying relationship, but there are people who decide to go that route. Bisexuals have the possibility of finding a satisfying relationship with the opposite sex--in many cases, that might make the choice to not pursue same-sex attractions easier, but the underlying decision, to either follow ones heart or not, is the same.

    The place where we do not have a choice is in having the feelings, whether we act on them or not, and bisexuals do not have that choice any more than gay people do.
     
  8. Just Passing

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    I have never been bothered by people saying homosexuality is a choice. I might not necessarily agree with their reasoning and I know at least one good friend who said it was my choice to be gay without explaining why, but I wasn't that bothered.

    I'm of the opinion that there is an element of choice involved when coming to acting upon gay feelings (I know that's definitely my case), but it's not the major point behind sexuality. In some people's case, it really is just a case of ignorance and that they don't have a clue about how complicated sexuality really is.
     
  9. Mogget

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    Whether an inclination to do something is a choice or inborn has absolutely no bearing on its moral acceptability. There's strong evidence that there are people with a sexual attraction to children that is either inborn or created as the result of childhood abuse. That doesn't making acting on it any more acceptable.