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Marriageless future

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by LowestVocal017, Jul 2, 2006.

  1. LowestVocal017

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    *Sighs* Hey guys.

    Recently, I've been thinking about my future, how I'm not going to be able to marry because I'm gay (bisexual). I'm not going to go into a political conversation on this topic. I am, however, going to talk about my sadness.

    I recently read a book, Gay Marriage: Why It is Good for Gays, Good for Straights, and Good for America. The author has brought up a strong and developed argument, and he said one thing that I really liked:
    Marriage is an institution which the couple's surrounding society also plays appart of. When two are devoted to each other, their society too expects them to nurish eachother and commit to each other (this is paraphrased; this is not quote-on-quote).

    But more importantly, he said this (which I like even more):
    Marriage changes lives: It transforms love, it transforms the bonded couple's future.

    These two things that Jon Rauch wrote in his book about gay marriage stuck out to me, but the second one did especially. "Marriage transforms love," and it does! One thing for sure, the couple isn't considered boyfriend and girlfriend anymore. They are husband and wife! They are committed! Everything in the rest of life ahead of them is for each other "until death does them appart." When one spouse is sick at the hospital, the husband or wife of that dying spouse is going to be beside him or her, letting that spouse know the committed partner is there to support him or her all the way to the end of the spouse's life. THAT's what marriage means! Jonathan Rauch's book is such an inspiration to me (it goes on so much deeper than what I just said), and his reminder of what marriage is and why we have marriage in the first place had awaken me and made me look at our government and my future.

    So with that, let's go back to the beginning of my post. The reason why I'm sad looking at my marriageless future is because I can not expect to have a new life. Even though I'm also sexually attracted to women, to half or a third the extent of men, marriage for me is going to be with a guy, and that kind of marriage from me, who's also a guy, is frowned upon by society on the whole. I brought up earlier that "society plays appart of one's marriage." So even if marriage was to be legal, I know it won't be a great one because society will see me and my husband (if he ever will be legally called a husband!) as an "abomination." That will be the WORST marriage I'll ever have, as a matter of fact, and I'm sure that will be the worst one for you guys too.

    About Civil Unions. Civil unions, a substitution for marriage, distroys marriage! The idea of a civil union is when two cannot get married, they are casually bonded, with the government giving, or atleast attempting to give, as many and as much legal benefits to them as a married couple enjoy. Civil Unions say: the two, bonded for pleasure and enjoyment, are committed to each other if they want. If not, no biggy, because why should friends and family care if they are seperated and are not going to see each other again? Again, the surrounding society of the "couple" don't care for the most part, so even a civil union will not last or will not be a good one (for me, at least)! There will just be so much missing if a civil union happens to me in place of a marriage, because civil unions cannot do the things that marriage can, and again, ONE big thing is transforming love and life and future.

    Jonathan Rauch has made me realize what marriage really is, and with this definition of marriage, I recently looked at my future: society not acknowledging my bonded partner as married, the government not allowing my bonded partner to marry, the marriage itself (if it ever even happens, even on a personal level) not lasting because neither two plays appart of it. And this is why I'm sad. As a child, I may not have been the happiest person, but I would have been so much happier to know that I will one day get married. As I child, I thought I would get married! Now, I know that I won't, unless...
     
  2. LowestVocal017

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    ...unless the American society starts understand my need to marry a male. First, the American people, in general, need to understand that my homosexuality is not a "deviant condition" or a "sick lifestyle," (yes, I placed those phrases in quotes!) but a natural, biological variation of human sexuality, as natural as gay and straight males' and females' tendancy to respond sexually to others. Right now, I won't go into the science of human homosexuality or human sexuality, because they're irrelevant to my thread. Back to my society argument.

    If one thinks about it, it's really funny how people who frown upon homosexuality claim that homosexuals are polygamous, adulterers, and the casual sex type, and, at the same time, these same people deny marriage to homosexuals, in which case would cause adultery to happen more likely! Sadly, I do have to admit that many gay guys are successful at casual sex (more successful than straight guys, even though they are equally interested. I didn't say more inclined towards, I said more successful). Marriage is a strong stabilizing force, and if it was just instilled into homosexuals in the first place, adultery wouldn't be so high amoung the gay population. I imply that a strong "sexual underworld," a term which Rauch used, would be as present as a gay "sexual underworld" if marriage was denied to straights as well. So if we were just able to get married, the problem which many anti-homosexual people claim to be in gay men would not be there to begin with. It really hits me as peculiar how some people's logic works.

    To conclude my thread with it's two starting posts, I, like many gays of the older generation, look forward to the day when gays can enjoy more than just a mere substituion for marriage, which is marriage itself, an equal opportunity for all in this hypocritical so-called free country. I was happy when I was young, but i am not now while I look at my future without marriage, a homosexual marriage for me. Hope is strong, and it is all I have that I can cling onto.
     
  3. LowestVocal017

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    "Memory"

    Midnight
    Not a sound from the pavement
    Has the moon lost her memory?
    She is smiling alone
    In the lamplight, the withered leaves collect at my feet
    And the wind begins to moan

    Memory
    All alone in the moonlight
    I can smile at the old days
    I was beautiful then
    I remember the time
    I knew what happiness was
    Let the memory live again

    Every streetlamp seems to beat a fatalistic warning
    Someone mutters, and a streetlamp gutters,
    And soon it will be morning.
    Daylight I must wait for the sunrise
    I must think of a new life
    And I mustn't give in.
    When the dawn comes, tonight will be a memory too
    And a new day will begin
    Burnt out ends of smoky days
    The stale cold smell of morning
    The streetlamp dies, another night is over
    Another day is dawning...

    Memory
    It´s so easy to leave me
    all alone with my memory of my days in the sun
    If you touch me
    You´ll understand what emptyness is
    Look a new day has begun...
     
  4. Proud1p4

    Proud1p4 Guest

    Come on over to Canada...you dont have to have a "marriageless future" if you dont let it be so. Move, get out of that conservative piece of land they call a country and come over to the liberal side of things. Gay marriage has been legalized for months now over here. And in a few years, the citizens and gay activists over in the US will eventually win...i mean think about it...once our generation gets into office and such then gay marriage will be an open-shut book issue...i mean how many kids (when looked at as a whole) frown on homosexuality...i dont know about your society...but over here, in our generation...nobody gives a f*ck...

    No one cares, they think we should be equal just as much as blacks and whites do...or women and men...all these were issues in the past but what happened once the younger generations got in office? The said sure and that was that. Of course there are people in society, many in fact that are still against homsexuality but there are still people who dont treat women and men equally, or blacks and whites...there will always be and opposing side...it might get weaker but it will never dissapear. If you look at the dieing generations, thats where most of the homophobes and people who REALLY are against gay marriage. Look at our or even our parents generation...there are PLENTY of people voting yes.

    I know that Canada might be alot more liberal than the US but give them time...once that S.O.B, Georgre Bush finally has a heart attack (im having a party, that old looney bin) new people will come in. Trust me politics will sort itself out. And if you cant wait til it does....move...come on over here:icon_wink .
     
  5. imad

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    Who cares? The difference between marriage and civil unions is nothing more than a difference in nomenclature. Words mean nothing. When I look at my future, marriage doesn't come to mind. What I think about instead is the person that I will be with. We won't need the government to acknowledge our love as genuine. Marriage as opposed to civil unions would be nice, but it shouln't worry you so much.

    What worries me is not being able to have children and having to adopt a child who will have to be forced to live with parents as shameful as a gay couple. Imagine the pain that not knowing who your real parents are combined with the pain of trying to have friends over normally. Obviously other childrens' parents will not all be as accepting as the children...

    Our lives will probably be more complicated than the lives of regular people, and that's not just because of a name. People don't want to acknowledge our relationships as marriages because they don't look at our relationships as legitimate. Forcing those people to call them marriages is not going to the cause of the problem, but to one of the effects. If the people that hate us were to say we can be married, will their hatred suddenly disappear?

    By the way, I love that song... It always makes me really sad when I hear it... The rest of Cats is really god too, but not so sad as this song.
     
  6. suburbs_of_sodom

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    I think that eventually, if gay marriage actually became "marriage" and not "civil unions", hatred and homophobia would begin to decline and eventually disappear simply because the children of bigots would grow up in a society where gays and straights truly are equal instead of having society confirm their parents' beliefs of how gays are "second class citizens" and "abominations". Also, if you go back a mere 30 years, interracial marriage was the hot topic on the definition of marriage, with 19 states having laws against it. But when the supreme court finally overturned these laws, that was one giant step forward in the civil rights movement and, even though interracial couples were still legal before that, allowing these couples marriage helped destroy the last bit of racism that still lingered in the government. That's not to say that there aren't racists out there and certainly not to say that there won't be homophobes out there when gay marriage is finally legalized, but blacks and whites became, and gays and straights will become, equal in the eyes of the law and thus, in the eyes of mainstream society.
     
  7. LowestVocal017

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    The problem with our generation, guys, is that even our generation has a moderately-strong to severely-strong aversion towards gay people. Well, atleast in the U.S. where I'm at. So, I may just take Kyle's (Proud2BGay456's) advice and move to Canada.

    Back to what I was saying, our generation have a lot of kids and youth who are heavily influenced by their parents moral codes and hetersexism standards. There are people my age and younger who abhorr gays and I have seen it, and they aren't exactly a small part of the population either! I happen to know that kids especially in more conservative states will strongly oppose our marriage agenda. Even most of our generation in liberal states don't even completely understand our situation in needing to marry and will handle accordingly as adults (however much they appear to be better at it than conservatives).

    The problem that stands in the way of marriage, and it's good at standing in the way too(!), is that most people claim that homosexuality is a sick, perverted "lifestyle", contradicting all that is morally righteous in the universe. It's a deviant behaviour that should be altered. That goes to say, "all people were born heterosexual" and have the ability to live as straight if possible. And if they can't become straight, they can suppress their homosexual sexual feelings in order to benefit society. There's something wrong here: homosexuality is more than just a mere sexual behaviour or a desire, it's physiological. That means, no one can just desire to mate with one of his or her gender, he or she is already destined to do so if that's where his desires are. WHen I tell conservatives this, they won't like it. They'll simply come back with, "being naturally born with homosexuality is irrelevant. There are things natural to a human being that should be suppressed so that society can benefit. For example, many humans woiuld desire more than one partner at a time. We discourage this by endorsing monogamy because it's what's best for a stable relationship (and they add 'raising children'). Having many wives and/or husbands is not beneficial to society or raising children, so it is suppressed. THis goes for homosexuality too." Again, that says that we homosexuals have the ever-innate ability to be straight if we just try, just like we have the ever-innate ability to be monogamous. That, however, is not the situation because homosexuality can't be ridden of. A lot of this goes into the anti-gay marriage agenda of the U.S. It is EXTREMELY powerful (otherwise, why aren't we gay people married by now in the 20th century?!). It seems no matter what you say, the conservatives will hold on mega-agressively to their discouragement of gay marriage and they have their ways of coming back at you. That example of what a conservative would say is just one example, and they have better arguments than that! Thousands of it.

    So as I said earlier, if (our American) society on the whole was to first understand that homosexuality is an unsupressable (is that word?), innate variation of human sexuality, we can bring ourselves to the next step of legalizing gay marriage. Most people would just understand this that I'm saying as accepting the fact that "homosexuality is natural," but it is SOOO much more than just that: people really need to grasp what that means and what it applies and implies! If society can do that, we can advance forward, but we are still at this point so far away from that. That's why I'm looking at a marriageless future, and I'm sad! I'm so sad! People just don't understand my pain!! I really want to get married! Again, a simple, casual bond as civil union will not cut it for me. The difference between a civil union and marriage for me is big, so much more than just nomenclature (I've explained all of that in my first post of this thread).

    A few generations later, we might just achieve that, but no where near the near future will it happen. I wish that generation the greatest of happiness for those gays are accepted as "normal" in society and a lot more: They are appart of the human specie.
     
  8. Dejavu

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    Ok first before you ask ow your gonna marry.. ask "Well am i gay or straight?" i am a firm believer that you are one or the other, not both. ok, ill give you "confused" but thats as much leway as im willing to give. ppl who say they are "bisexual" are just:

    1. Confused
    2. Greedy

    So try again once you have worked out what you are, the support section may even be able to help you there.

    (this may seem insensative or rude to some and im sorry, but its like my pet hate)
     
  9. LowestVocal017

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    Thanks for your reply, Dejavu.

    I'm well aware of my sexual orientation. That was not a problem to begin with. I am indeed bisexual, but more specifically, men attract me more than women. In that sense, I like to call myself gay (that's why I included both, putting one in parenthesis). I've known that I'm bisexual for a long time. In this thread, I talked more about liking men then liking both men and women, and I was using this to discuss nott being able to marry; I simply mentioned the word "bisexual" for a slightly more specific description.

    I wouldn't say what you said about ambisexuality is true. At least not completely. You can start your own thread discussing that and see what other people have to contribute. :wink: But here, let's stick to the discussion of my marriageless future.

    BTW, I apologize to anyone who had to spend hours reading my thread, if anyone did. At times, I can be quite a talker. Reply at anytime if you choose. :slight_smile:
     
    #9 LowestVocal017, Jul 11, 2006
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2006
  10. LowestVocal017

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    I meant to say this, but I forgot within my 15 minute edit time and couldn't edit again, so I will post this in a new post.

    While I understand your viewpoint of the self-bisexual claim, you cannot allegedly assume all guys who say that they are bisexual are either greedy or confused (which I am neither). Bisexuals do exists! Indeed, there have been many cases of gay teenagers and adolescents and even adults who sets a social identity of bisexuality because they fear society's bias against them; they think that while they like men (or lesbians like women), they can at least feel less "abnormal" for liking those of the opposite sex. Generally, these are the people who are confused about their sexual orientation (although I wouldn't say they are greedy. I'm a bit questioning on why you mentioned that word). But this, however, does not mean that those who know that they are bisexual are lying. I know I'm not lying when I say that I'm bisexual. On the bigger note, I'm gay, but on a more specific note, I'm bisexual because women too naturally attract me (not nearly as much as men though, which is why I socially call myself gay).
     
  11. Proud1p4

    Proud1p4 Guest

    I agree with Lowest, while i recognize Deja's point of view as valid and worthy just as much as mine or anyone else's...i don't agree with it. I knwo plenty of bisexual's and i don't think that they are liars, greedy or confused in any way. I think it is VERY possibly to be attracted equally (and in most situations 40%-60%, 30%-70% etc.) to both sexes.
     
  12. Jo A

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    Sorry, that's a load of rubbish. The world's not black and white, there's shades of grey and a whole spectrum of colours. Just as there are more genders than just the two most people think there are; there are people out there who are attracted to people of different genders. I've come to the conclusion that I'm attracted to people of pretty much the same gender, but their physical sex doesn't matter. That might make me "bisexual" to some people; though I prefer "pansexual" myself.

    But, I forget, you're confused about what "sex", "gender" and "sexuality" really are; I answered [post=6018]your comments[/post] but have yet to see any reply from you. Maybe you haven't got a reply, maybe my very existence causes you to question your world-view and I make you uncomfortable, so you choose to ignore me. It wouldn't be the first time... :confused:

    This may seem insensitive or rude to you and I'm sorry, but it's just one of my pet hates...

    :thumbsup: Jo