I'll be honest, I'm looking for help in a debate I've accidentally gotten myself into on FB. backstory: I received a text from someone on my landline phone, so the machine operator read it out on my answering machine (yes, I know, dated technology but cheaper than a monthly voicemail bill) asking me if I was at TO Pride. it wasn't signed, and I didn't recognize the number, so I don't know who it was from. so I posted a stat on FB, saying "to whomever asked, I wish I was at TO Pride but I'm not" and now I have a friend asking what the point of the parade is, and asking what I think of the "excessively sexual nature" of it, and now she's saying she views the Pride parade and festivities as objectifying homosexuals. ...I want to respond to her point convincingly, but I'm not sure how. so, what would you say if someone told you that the gay pride parade objectifies homosexuals?
I absolutely loathe it when people go all "OMG gay pride parades are horrible for the gay cause and make everybody look bad!" Do you know how many people attend pride events? There is so much more going on there than the parade. There are parties and educational events and concerts and support groups and informational sessions and just allllll kinds of different things. Pride events are typically at least multi-day, if they don't span the course of an entire week. Tons of "normal" gay people go to these events. You'd never know that to watch footage of a pride event on TV; news reporters will find the people who stand out, like people in rainbow outfits, skimpy clothes, leather wear, drag, those with bondage gear, glittergays, etc. For one, there is nothing wrong with those people. For two, if you have a problem with the way that the media portrays those gays as representing all gays, take it up with them. It isn't Steve the Leather Bear's fault that his interests are the only ones represented by the media. Reporters don't talk to the less flashy people at pride events because those people aren't exciting. Those people aren't going to get them viewers/readers. And yet, having been to pride events myself, I can tell you that for every 5 dolled/glammed up "freaks", there are 95 people who don't stand out at all and are just there enjoying their day. In short, gays get enough hate from outside groups. We don't need to be hating each other for something that isn't our faults. It definitely isn't our fault that closed-minded people would see one gay person or a small minority of gay people and decide that they represent all people who are gay. You wouldn't get mad at your straight friend Janet for wearing a sparkly purple shirt and then having somebody tell her she is "objectifying heterosexuals" and making all heterosexuals look bad. You'd get mad at the person telling her that she's ruining heterosexuality for them. Tell your friend that.
As of now, all you have to say is "No it doesn't." She hasn't supported her perspective with anything, so why should you? Lol, it's really hard to argue against vague stupidity.
i posted a few pix from ours. one was a 90 yr old man in a car in a suit, and he was oldest married gay man in our town. and then there were the churches which marched in support of all people God made and loves showing it in action. then there were the adults and kids who were native american indians dressed in fine indian costumes with great detail who are 2 spirited and celebrated in their tribes. then there were political groups saying we need better judges or vote for this pro-equality person. so that is what the Pride parade of Portland did...how shameful and disgraceful...it made all gays look so "objectified"???
I think that she must never have actually been to a pride parade. The ones I've been to, mostly are not very sexualized. There are just a couple of moderately racy floats, and the rest is just people with lots of rainbows and stuff all over them. And drag queens. But the drag queens are not sexualized, just really made up. I mean, the giant American Airlines float definitely wasn't sexual, for example, and this year when my choir took part in the parade, we just wore the T-Shirts we had made for our upcoming concert, and handed out fliers. And sang some stuff. I definitely didn't feel objectified by the experience. ---------- Post added 2nd Jul 2012 at 03:05 AM ---------- This was the same parade Deaf Not Blind saw.
Sherri said it well. I agree that there is nothing wrong with gay pride parades. At the ones I've been to, there are a variety of different floats. There are the half naked guys sure, but there's more than that. There are countless churches, youth organizations, army groups, equal rights organizations, and groups like PFLAG. I marched in one pride parade with Disney. They definitely were not dressed sexually. The media latches on to an image of half naked men dancing up high on top of floats. I enjoy these people because I see it as them expressing themselves in a place that is safe. You could tell your friend that the gay pride parade is a place where gay people feel free to be themselves without holding back. Gay people are treated like second-class citizens most of the time or are at least less represented than straight people. The gay pride parade is the one time that gay people are the majority. And yes, sex is part of everyday life. So in extenstion, the gay pride parade is a place where it is acceptable to talk about sex between the same-sex. Is your friend straight or gay? If she is straight, you could ask her to imagine what it would be like to see gay people everywhere as the majority sexual orientation and to never feel represented. You could ask her if talking about sex between men/women is objectifying straight people. Or like Sherri said, if a half naked guy on a float objectifies her straightness.
thanks everyone I can't really tell her about the times I've been to PRIDE, because I've only gone to two pride events, both when I was a young, frightened teenager who was testing the water, and both in small towns. I guess from what I've heard, the larger parade in Toronto is supposed to be more sexualized than the small town ones, but I've never been (though I really really wanted to go this year), so I don't know. I did say this "well, I've spent a long time slowly killing myself with shame over something I really had no say in. the opposite of shame is pride. so for me, I see it as a good opportunity to celebrate a part of myself that I have kept hidden for way too long. It's really just a good opportunity to go somewhere and be able to be 100% myself, no having to hide anything or pretend anything... no trying to fix anything... just being with other people." and then this I think one point of the pride parade is for people who have traditionally had to hide who they are, people who have been harassed for simply being who they are, to finally have the opportunity to be who they are and express themselves in the safety that the sheer numbers of a Pride parade can provide. Anyway, I do hope to get to some of the Pride events in [smaller town] (since I missed :'( Toronto)... and that's all I wanted to say." I think at this point I might just ignore any further comments from her and others in this group of old "friends". I really don't want to be an ambassador of the LGBTQ community (which I am honestly still just getting to know) to my longtime "friends" who are all still clearly hoping they can talk me out of being who I am. I wanted to give her a fair response, though, before starting to ignore her. to try to see if she was genuinely wanting to know or just looking for an opening for debate, turns out it was the latter.
I really like the way you responded. :eusa_clap It was clear and very well-spoken. She should understand from what you said why Pride is important to you. I agree that it might be best to just not say anything more if she responds less than positively. Pride is what it is to you and she can't take that away. (*hug*) Don't listen to them if they are being unsupportive. She doesn't understand what it's like to be scared and ashamed of her sexuality. I was thinking more about Pride and I thought about if heterosexuality was seen as taboo or was less represented in society (like LGBT people). If heterosexuality only got one parade a year to exhibit all of its many different group members. The heterosexual/straight parade would include churches, youth organizations, Republicans, Democrats, children, adults, teenagers, half naked men and women, porn enthusiasts, youth organizations, etc, etc. If straight people were only given one parade, you would see a variety of different people because there are so many different kinds of straight people. With LGBT people, it's the same way. There is one parade to demonstrate such a diverse group of people. There is not one type of LGBT person. Plus, being proud of who your sexuality is a big step that she never had to go through.
The only thing I was embarrassed about at the Pride Parade I went to in Chicago was the amount of trash all over the place. Although, that my issue with most large gatherings of people... we tend to trash the place. I'm a bit of a neat freak and with so many gay men around, you'd think the place would be a little tidier Still, with the sexual nature about pride, I probably wouldn't take my parents to one because maybe my parents really don't need to see a dick flopping out of a hot guy's speedo with their gay son ogling it next to them.
^This is well said I've been to Pride events as well and have seen the same thing. Like you said there's allot more to it than just the parade as well. ----------- When it comes to news/media, its the crazy/weird/uncommon stuff that "sells". Basically All those 'normal' people who don't stand out are not "newsworthy", The general public does not want to watch/read about boring people like themselves... ------------ Personally I enjoy going to Pride (more-so the festival part than the parade, but its all cool to see) I went to a couple different ones last year (first pridefest i ever went to was last year ) Then went to one for parts of both days this past June (Denver) - including the parade(1st pride parade for me). There's another city that has a pridefest later this month, in a way wouldn't mind going, but probably won't because of where it is. And another city has one in September (seems really late in the year?) I may go to that one (went there last August)
Remember that there was a time when homosexuals were seen as aggressive, hyper-sexual, predatory psychopaths. The image that pride parades and flamboyant characters on TV portray may not be 100% accurate, or the one you find comfortable with, but it made the whole concept seem a lot more harmless and cushy to Joe American. That's basically what it is, I think. They played an important role in the struggle for gay rights. They still do. Generally people that have negative opinions about them seem to be people that have never gone to one.
I think Pride celebrations are no more sexual or objectifiable of LGBT people than Mardi Gras is, & I cant remember, for the life of me, anyone, straight or otherwise, complaining about Mardi Gras, which can be highly sexualized & objectifiable of women & sexuality in some ways. I mean Mardi Gras has the whole 'lift your short, show us your boobs & get beaded necklace thing' with the women, & you dont hear the right wing or religiously moral groups railing on & on about it, in fact, the whole boob/short lifting thing has become such a tradition at Mardi Gras, its carried over to other events. So nope, dont think its strictly a Pride thing at all!
Yikes! That really happens at pride events? I guess I'm a homophobic prude then because I wouldn't want to be associated with that.
Well, like another poster said, it's like Mardi Gras or Carnival in Rio. Just you're gonna see some naked bits, sometimes. It happens Although, there was a TON of pot smoking going on, which allowed me to play a rather rousing game of "Do You Smell Ass or Pot?"... it was 50/50 most of the day. Oh, and I also kept getting my butt slapped and I got pawed a few times... but that was hilarious rather than creepy.
