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I'm NOT a Homosexual Male!

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by Hot Pink, Aug 22, 2012.

  1. Hot Pink

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    Am I allowed to rant a bit here? Well, you guys know me. I tend to rant a lot, so off we go! There's a lot of people out there that are confused, misinformed, or simply ignorant about what trans people really are. Some people go so far as to say we're the confused ones, but we're not. In fact, that's the problem. We're not confused at all. We know who we are and it's contrary to our bodies. The biggest misconception out there is the assumption that all trans people are homosexual--and I mean homosexual by their birth sex and not their gender.

    But aren't you gay? Yes, I'm a homosexual female, but people always assume that because I'm a trans woman that I'm a homosexual male. It bugs me! This is just getting old. When I correct people about this, they get the most blank, idiotic looks on their faces. Like I just broke their brains. Is it really that hard to believe that someone can be a girl without liking penis? After all, lesbians exist. Hello! That's the problem though, right? I bet these people also assume that lesbians want to be men. Even my own parents thought that I was gay when I came out to them as trans. Not only that, but they didn't understand why I still wanted to transition after telling them that I was attracted to women.

    Even if I did like men, I would be heterosexual and not homosexual. This is another idea that people can't seem to understand. It's also okay for heterosexual men to find me attractive. Some have in the past and I'm sure many will in the future. I am a woman, after all. I present as a woman and I look like a woman. So, no, when a heterosexual man is attracted to me, he is not gay. In fact, women who are attracted to me are gay, which is still a natural thing. I'm a woman, she's a woman. I can't control how people perceive me or if they're attracted to him. The only the I have control over is myself. Likewise, others don't have control over me. As much as they want to think of me has a homosexual male, I'll always be a homosexual female.
     
  2. SohoDreamer

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    Can I ask how much you have transitioned? Do you have female body parts or..? Sorry if this is too personal!

    And I think part of the problem is we dot get taught about these things in school. I'm really ignorant but I'd like to learn more about it, but they'd never teach us about it in my school :/ Still, your post in one of my previous threads was super helpful c:
     
  3. Pret Allez

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    I totally hear that. Sorry you have to deal so much with people who don't understand. First there's the sex-gender linkage that people can't seem to get over, and then, ya, you're totally right: people come at it with cissexist, heteronormative assumptions about how things should be. Thus gay men are really wanting to be women, and lesbians are wanting to be men.

    Nobody can take away who you are. (*hug*)

    Soho: That's a bit of a personal question, yes. If she wants to answer it, she can, but generally it's not a great idea to ask trans folks about their bodies unless they share first. If you're curious about trans issues and want to learn more (super cool, bro!), it helps to do a little homework first: Ten Things Not To Say To A Trans Person and Trans-Etiquette for Non-Trans People.
     
  4. Fugs

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    Not to be rude but why would any of that matter? Would you mind if I asked you in detail about your penis or your history of acne? It's none of your business, don't go asking trans people about their genitals it's rude.

    If they tell you they're girls, then treat them like you would treat any other girl. Read up on trans people, figure out what gender dysphoria is. Do a bit of research.

    As for what Pink is saying, it stems from how people see us as guys in dresses. It's them being uneducated and short minded. Not understanding what gender dysphoria is and how the media portrays us.

    Gender and sexuality are different, who you love has nothing to do with the 'tool set' you have. It's going to take a long time to teach people about this stuff, but if we're lucky in 20 years trans people will fit in like everyone else.
     
    #4 Fugs, Aug 22, 2012
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2012
  5. sguyc

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    People probably know what you mean most of the time, unless they are complete idiots and can't follow logic. The problem is that people love displaying their ignorance. Its easier to go "lol thats dumb/doesn't make sense" than to acutally think a little bit and have some empathy.
     
  6. Mango

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    Hi there HP!

    Most guys who are attracted to MTF transsexuals are homosexuals. They are homosexuals in the sense that, most are exclusively attracted to pre-op MTF transsexuals. If the TS were to announce that she is indeed now a post-op, the attraction would immediately vanish. Therefore, I guess what I'm really saying here, is that the penis is quite a deal breaker when it comes to TS admirers. This implies that there is a very definite attraction, not only to the TS, but to the penis, as well.

    People who are sexually attracted to people who possess the same sex, are customarily referred to as, "homosexuals".

    Now, insofar as how a TS perceives of themselves as being heterosexual vs homosexual, that's just an obvious self-evident conundrum.

    In the TG community, I've heard everything from, "I'm really a man, but I like to present as a woman, because that's how I really feel deep down inside", to "There's no doubt that I'm a woman... I just lack the physical equipment to verify that fact!". So here, in one case, we have a TG who acknowledges to himself that he's really a man, but just personally feels more comfortable in female attire. However, in another case, we have a person who accepts to themselves that they are truly female, and just naturally dresses the part.

    In the first case, if "he" is solely attracted to males, he is a homosexual. However, if he is attracted to females, he is considered to be heterosexual. OTOH, in the second, or last case, if "she" is attracted to males, she personally may feel as though "she" is heterosexual. However, to the medical profession, "she" is behaving in a completely "homosexual" manner, because "she" is technically still in possession of a penis. Of course, if "she" were to find "herself" attracted to females exclusively, the medical profession would consider "her" to be, "heterosexual".

    I personally feel as though each person is whatever they prefer to see themselves. However, how another person chooses to see you, is entirely a different story. Generally, they perceive you as you present yourself. However, once the fact that you're a TG comes up, things can change quite quickly, and understandably so, in sexual situations.
     
  7. SohoDreamer

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    Thank you for the links Pret. And I apologize deeply for the misunderstanding. I was curious as to how far technology had progressed and if women in male bodies/vice versa are now able to get the bodies they want. I hope that clears things up. I certainly didn't mean it in any kind of a prying way. Sometimes I say things in the wrong way, part of social anxiety I guess.
     
  8. Fiddledeedee

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    I would like to disagree with your first statement, Mango, since sexuality is more than just sex. Hetero-, homo-, and bisexual are generally used to encompass romantic attraction unless otherwise specified. Straight men are attracted to women, and in some cases that can be a trans woman who has not had GRS, oestrogen/other hormone therapy, etc.. This is because a trans woman is a woman regardless of their sex. If a trans woman presents as a man then the men initially attracted to her are more likely to be gay since they see her as a member of their own gender, but upon getting to know her/finding out that she is a woman, this attraction may go away (or it may not and they might realise they are bi). They may still have a sexual attraction to her, but a homosexual and homoromantic man wouldn't be attracted to her. Heterosexual and -romantic men, on the other hand, would be.
     
  9. Romi

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    Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

    And I really do feel for you. I hate hearing you having to deal with people like this. It sucks. But it's going to happen for a while whether we like it or not, because most people are simply just not as informed about this side of the LGBTQ spectrum. It's why we can't just complain about it, we have to change it. We have to educate people so that they can better understand.

    Yes, there will always be someone who doesn't give enough care to learn. They'll think what they want to think and that's that. There's going to be people who...no matter how much you try to explain it, just won't be able to wrap their heads around it. There's always going to be something....But if we keep our hopes up...and we nice and politely teach them and help them understand more about the T spectrum...Well...you just have to smile and help others learn.



    As for these comments.

    SohoDreamer was only curious. It was mentioned that he's not well versed in the transgender spectrum, so what I think is really rude is the way you replied to him. The very same things could have been said in a much more polite manner. After all, he apologized beforehand, and that should not be overlooked.

    I understand that it can be rude and uncomfortable to have someone ask you about your transition and whatnot. But it is also rude to just snap at them. He said he was interested and wanted to learn... Now what if he's the type of person that opens up slowly and closes off easily? By snapping at him like that, you could have missed your one and only chance to help educate him the right way. After that, he might never try to even care about the trans community ever again. I've seen it happen. I'm not saying SohoDreamer is like that at all, but you never know who you're talking to.

    I also don't think he was implying that he saw MtFs as men necessarily. Either way...I just don't want to see either of you getting upset or snappy over this kind of thing.

    Fugs, we've never talked, but I've read many of your posts and I'm quite fond of what you have to say in most things. So please forgive me if you feel I've been too bold in replying this way, but ...Well, I think I've said what I need to.

    As for you, SohoDreamer, if you ever have any questions pertaining to the transgender area, please feel free to ask me. I might not be able to help all the time, but I can at least point you in the right direction.
     
  10. Fiddledeedee

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    In general, GRS (gender reassignment surgery, the one most people think of when they think of a "sex change") has gotten quite good. For a trans man, penis and testicles can be fashioned from skin from the lower arm and bottom as well as remodelling the clitoris into the penis head in some way, IIRC -- I may be getting this completely wrong. It's possible to have a pump in one testicle that can cause an erection if squeezed. There will be a scar along the penis and where the skin was taken from. For a trans woman, the penis can be effectively inverted and its head used to form a new clitoris (I may be getting that bit completely wrong as well). The vagina is hard to distinguish from a "natural" one (I loathe using that word, but I can't think of a better one now, sorry).

    In both cases, the surgery (one of several options like it as far as I can gather) can entail over a week of bedrest, is often expensive, doesn't give perfect results, doesn't change fertility, and means you can't have sex/sex is painful for a little while afterwards. Many trans people opt to not have it; the way that someone transitions and to what medical extent is very personal and depends on many things. There are also other medical procedures like facial feminisation surgery, mastecotomy (which can be done to varying extents as far as I can tell), and so on. Trans people may choose to or be unable to have any surgery, going for purely hormonal treatment or none at all, all of which are valid options and don't make that person less of a man/woman.
     
  11. Fugs

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    Yeah I'm sorry, dealing with chasers and general transphobic people rubs off I guess. I'm sorry about that Sohodreamer
     
  12. SohoDreamer

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    Thank you SO much Romi and deedee. And, I certainly do not see MTFs as Males. I know they're not, and the same goes for FTMs. I'm just unclear on a lot of the details. I don't have any kind of a problem with transgenders, it really doesn't matter to me. I was merely curious and I apologize if I caused unintentional offence.

    I'm actually attracted to all genders but I listed bisexual because the definitions of pansexuality are so vague and confusing that I can never get clear answers.
     
  13. Katelynn

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    I know EXACTLY how you feel, HotPink, I present as female I think pretty well, & yet when people ask me about my orientation (which I still get annoyed about bc what does it matter, if it was a cis person they wouldnt just ask right after meeting that person but whatever), I have to say I'm a LESBIAN bc everytime I say that Im gay, people assume I mean for men. It is insane that I have to first disclose my being gay just bc Im trans & people are curious, but to have to nitpick over fricking words is just a kick in the head as far as Im concerned...
     
  14. J Snow

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    You know, I was actually just wondering about something on the bus on the way back to my apartment. Maybe someone else will be able to help me out on this question.

    Once I start HRT (which I think should be soon, I am supposed to be going to see a doctor for it tomorrow morning) would I be able to donate plasma legally? I know there's the whole "You can't give blood if you've had homosexual sex" thing (which I think bullshit on its own, but I digress) but if you consider yourself transgender than it isn't really homosexual sex as heterosexual sex.

    My speculation is that it would still be illegal, but if you get a legal gender change than how could they enforce it? One day you aren't safe to donate blood then the next day you get a new title, nothing about your sex history has changed, but you can give blood?

    Just speculating here, not really anything that significantly impacts me, but I could use some money so donating plasma could be financially beneficial.
     
  15. Mango

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    Most guys who are attracted to MTF transsexuals exclusively, soon lose interest after it becomes known that their potential MTF post-op suiter has no penis.

    What is that?!?...If the penis is a deal breaker, to another possessor of a penis, that person is homosexual.

    If I'm anything close to straight and I possess a penis, I'm pretty much hoping that you have had the complete change and that I don't have to even see a penis! I most certainly wouldn't want to touch anybody elses penis, but my own. That's how most exclusively straight guys think!
     
  16. Tim

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    It's actually just a ban on men who have sex with men or women who have sex with men who have had sex with men.

    There's nothing illegal about females who have sex with females donating blood.

    On top of that, I think they even lowered it from EVER to like, 2 years prior. Not 100% sure about that though.
     
  17. Hot Pink

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    @SohoDreamer: I have been on hormone replacement therapy for a year. I seem to pass very well. I never have male pronouns used for me from strangers, unless they know from paperwork or something, then it's male pronouns everywhere--despite how much I protest.

    @J Snow: You can't donate plasma anymore once you start HRT. It does suck, but there is a somewhat biological explanation for it. One of the testosterone blockers you may get prescribed--and it's one of the most common ones--is called Spironolactone. It was originally developed for people with heart disease to decrease cholesterol. One of the side effects, however, is that it blocked testosterone, so it was scrapped. Someone at some point saw a benefit for using it with transgender patients, so here we are. People who deal with plasma say that because of this medication, trans women can't donate plasma. I also think some discrimination is involved, though. I just think they're nitpicking.

    @Mango: If a man is attracted to a penis, it doesn't necessarily make them gay, especially if he also needs to the penis to be attached to a woman. These men also typically enjoy the soft skin, long hair, and the feminine personality of a trans woman. Not to mention the breasts.
     
    #17 Hot Pink, Aug 22, 2012
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2012
  18. Mango

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    Hot Pink says:

    @Mango: If a man is attracted to a penis, it doesn't necessarily make them gay, especially if he also needs to the penis to be attached to a woman. These men also typically enjoy the soft skin, long hair, and the feminine personality of a trans woman. Not to mention the breasts.[/QUOTE]

    Post-op trans women have long hair, breasts, soft skin, and effeminate personalities, too. However, there's no attraction there! So what's up with that?

    I'll tell ya what's up with that! They're gay! Just be proud that they're part of the community, because they really are in the only way that they can be. They're simply men with penises who like other people with penises...

    I don't care how you slice it! That's just gay!
     
  19. person54

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    It sucks when people somehow think that your being trans eliminates the possiblity of you having any orientation other than heterosexual. I've litterally had someone who knows I'm pansexual ask if I was going to be a woman who likes men or a woman who likes other woman as my transition continues. As if somehow being trans alters someones orientation.
     
  20. Aldrick

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    I can't speak for other gay men, but that is false for me. I'm exclusively romantically and sexually attracted to men. Yet, I've also found that I can develop romantic and sexual feelings toward someone who is FtM.

    Yes, that means I have no concern over the fact that he may not ever decide to have reassignment surgery. It wouldn't bother me that he didn't have a penis, and I wouldn't consider him less of a man for lacking one, either. So long as he was comfortable with his body, it wouldn't have an impact on our sex life at all.

    In my mind, it's silly to identify a man with a penis. There are accidents in which a man can lose his genitals. Would that make him any less of a man? Of course not. It would be a silly thing to say.

    Conversely, I've never found myself attracted to someone who is MtF either sexually or romantically; primarily because in my mind I'm identifying them as women. It doesn't matter to me that they may not yet have reassignment surgery and thus may technically have a penis. They don't FEEL like men to me - they FEEL like women.

    It also has nothing to do with the fact that they appear feminine, because I've had attraction toward some men in drag as well as some men who presented as very androgynous.

    I had some trouble understanding it at first, but it really boiled down to how I perceived someone who was FtM as a man, and someone who was MtF as a woman. Someone who is in drag or is presenting as very androgynous likewise also identifies as a man, and I'm attracted to a huge range of men of all sizes, shapes, colors, and types.