Homosexuality and Incest...among other things

That incestuous relationships should be treated as legitimate relationships should be obvious to anyone. What, exactly, is the big deal? Get over it!

 

I agree. The reason you are having difficulty finding a proper argument against it is because.. there isn't one!

It's certainly not something I want to do, but that doesn't mean I get to prevent other people from doing it, as long as everyone involved is happy.

Biological children in incestuous relationships is a tricky issue, and is the only thing that I can see that has a scrap of merit in it. However a relationship doesn't always equal offspring, and as you mentioned outlawing incest because of possible genetic deformities in offspring means that we should also outlaw people with genetic diseases from breeding too.

-Evidence of children produced from incestuous relationships with genetic diseases, amplified by pre-science religious fervour, led to society viewing incest as evil.

-Human evolution has led to most people not feeling attraction towards people in their immediate family/people they grow up with. Because the people making the laws didn't want incest, they made it illegal for everyone.

 

This is honestly something that I've struggled with as well. It is mostly just a social faux pas in the case of homosexual incestuous relationships. In the case of children of incestuous relationships, the problems caused by this are well-documented. It isn't a social faux pas when children get involved. Because of the danger involved, I still think that incestuous relationships in general should remain taboo. If we let homosexual couples stay together, that might make heterosexual couples think they're being discriminated against. It's just better to avoid that whole mess entirely.

Besides, one of the best things about relationships is going out there and meeting new people, broadening your horizons. What would I get for being with my sister? Not much. Ugh... It's just...gross to think about. I don't know how people can be sexually attracted to their own family. There's just too much history there, you know?

 

Uh-oh, morality!

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sfGw98pVCA[/YOUTUBE]

 

I should give my friend a call.
He's married with 2 children to his best friend. They lived on the same street growing up(and I do mean growing up, they spent pretty much every day "playing" together. They went to the same school, and at 14, started dating. When they were 22, they got married and by 24, had their first child. The second child came at 27 and last year, in a lovely ceremony, they renewed their vows for the right reasons. They've lived within 1 mile of the same street they grew up on for numerous reasons. Neither of them went to university, instead getting jobs at 16(in fact, they both worked at the same Burger King for about 2 years) and moving in together at 17.
They are absolutely in love, BUT as you say, one of the best things about relationships is going out and meeting new people and broadening your horizons - there's just too much history there.

Note: Before you say it's "not the same", consider this, as a rule, people spend more time with their friends growing up, than with their family.

At the end of the day, Hot Pink, you might not want to be with your sister, but no one is asking you to, but, what I think is a fair request is that you don't judge other peoples life choices because you wouldn't do it...I mean, I'd hate it if I was in a minority where people constantly held beliefs and inflicted them on me because they didn't understand it, or like it.

 

If the couple is genuinely consenting and of the same sex, I have no problem with it.

If it is a heterosexual relationship, that's where I disagree with the whole "incest is okay" thing. Why? Because children born of a couple with common ancestry (cousins, siblings, etc) have a much higher risk of birth defects, major disabilities (down syndrome) and at least 30% of these children die.

There is good reason why it is illegal in so many places.

 

What about if the incestuous heterosexual couple are unable to have children? I mean, if one, or both parties, are infertile? What about then? No children will be involved in that.
Also, as has been suggested in the thread, what about non-incestuous heterorsexual couples BUT one of the pairing has a disability that has a very good chance of passing on too - should be create laws to prevent them from having children?

 

Do you really believe that a couple, who are in an incestuous relationship, cant be left to make up thier own minds on whether it is a good idea for them to have kids or not?
They're not incapable of weighing up the pros and cons. These people are in love, having sex and if they want to have a baby then how the hell do you propose we stop them? Jail time for the pregnant woman maybe? What gives you the right?

 

I must admit, my first reaction even till now is to find a contradiction, but I cant find one and there probably isnt one. Speaks volumes about what side I am on right?

but lets not argue for the sake of arguing, there are more good points for sibling relationships than the latter, but you have to remember that even though we all identify LGBT, it doesnt mean we live outside of the societal norm/morals.

the way I see it, its already bad that homosexuality and trans gender is seen as taboo, adding another taboo topic into the mix is something we can do without.

 

I thank the lord that my straight friends who have their own issues in life still find the time to understand and incorporate equality for all including homosexuals into their lives.

They could, quite easily, ignore this taboo because it's something they can do without.

To me, your comment is like that of a black man fighting for his own equality and ignoring the racial abuse directed towards, for example, Asian people.

 

*rolls eyes* just stop, Id rather have it that the LGBT community gets its recognition before incestuous relationship, its better than having both in the dark AND its a step forward

lastly whos to say incest relationships wont get its time on the spotlight?

 

There actually is one very important thing separating homosexual relationships from incestuous one, and that is power dynamics (forgive me if that isn't the right term).

Basically, parents and other, older family members, including older siblings, hold a certain degree of power over younger family, even once everyone involved is an adult. This greatly increases the probability that the younger member (or, more accurately, the one with less "power" in the family) is not actually entering into the relationship with full consent.

This is more an argument against permitting non-consensual marriages, which are not always incestuous. However, unlike relationships between most unrelated people, the power dynamics form an inherent part of the relationship, especially between parents and their children.

The solution would then be to first investigate what percentage of incestuous relationships are truly consensual. If all but a small fraction are, then permitting incest would be reasonable. If, on the other hand, the majority are not, then incest should only be permitted on a case by case basis after a process to determine the nature of the relationship. You could separate out different types of incest, as well, so that, sibling-sibling marriages would be permissible but parent-child marriages would not.

As for laws in general, some are based on societal norms and don't have much basis beyond that. Some, such as traffic laws, are arbitrary but still vital. Laws should strive to reduce suffering, something which, at least in theory, can be determined objectively outside of societal norms.

 

That sounds very cowardly to me. Shameful, some would say.

 

I have thought about that topic a lot, incestuous relationships I mean, in a way to explain to a kid why they shouldn't have a love/romance type relationship with members of their family.

I made a bit of research in psychology too. Found a pediatric dr who gave a good example of the why not, to a kid.
It was: imagine being sat in a train. You have your seat, right next to your parents, your whole family is in the same wagon and there are other families in other wagons. Everything goes smoothly and in order. Your dad sits where he should, so does your mom, and everyone. You sit where you should; and the seats are like roles in your family.
If you, or other people, mix the roles... like you try to sit at your dad's seat, some people will be standing, they will have to find other seats that aren't for them, and it's going to become chaotic and disorganized, the whole wagon might be in trouble. That's how it works you see; every individual needs to attribute a role to their family members; you dad is your dad, he's not your brother, he's not your friend; he's your dad. He can't be your husband because if he was, your mind would go through something very troubling much like chaos. Your mind would have to redefine the roles of your whole family and undo some nice stable things like the fact that you can count on your parents for protection and for unconditional love. The love you live in romance is not unconditional nor should it ever be.

I found it made SO much sense, even to my adult ears!! The worst in incestuous relationships/marriages being not the possible genetic defects but the psychological mess that ensues the mixing of family roles.

And that would make gay marriage right.
That would make incestuous marriages right too, that is, if they learn after they are married that they have a distant family link.
That would make incestuous marriages wrong if the people know that they are related.

I believe that this could be applied rather easily if it becomes regulation to make a family research before each marriage!

 

Eyes rolling, eh?
Well, I'm sure you know how I felt when I read your response.

Have you ever been beaten because of who you fall in love with?
Have you become a social pariah? Been the victim of ridicule, torment and abuse that no one should ever face?
I have. I have faced it because of my sexuality.
I know what it's like, so when I see that there are consenting adults victimised in the same way, and ignored by a group of people that should empathise and sympathise with that situation, and, even worse, actively distancing themselves, well, thats terrible.
People within an incestuous relationship have done nothing wrong except fall in love with a person that society tells you is wrong.

If you can't find an argument that is just or legitimate against this practice, but you still want to distance yourself from them and their plight, well, shame on you.

 

maybe, but I am being honest to how I feel

geez you speak as if I opposite incest with a passion, calm down :dry: this is gonna be the last time I comment on this thread because there are always people who get touchy.

I believe in Love, even if that is incest which is probably something that I personally will have to get use to over time, what I dont believe is that everything can be solved just in one go, it takes time and effort and a heck of alot of sacrifices, if you want to be a supporter go ahead, no ones stopping you, making war against me isnt gonna change anything, I have my opinions and I will do what I want.

 

"Calm down" and "making war"?
I see, when you can't justify your stance properly, or you can't argue effectively, you use these baiting tactics?
Fair enough, you have your opinion thats fine, but seriously, it's rather childish to use some of the hyperbole you have to make my opinions seem more exaggerated than they are.