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Why is everybody hating on allies?

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by aeva, Oct 10, 2012.

  1. aeva

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    I've been seeing a lot of ally hate on assorted LGBT websites, and am quite confused by it. It seems to be directed at people who say they're allies, but are possibly not as accepting as they think. I understand that some of my LGBT brothers and sisters may be frustrated by it, but shouldn't we be supporting those that are least making an effort? Shouldn't we be trying to further educating them, instead of belittling and insulting them?

    If anybody could shed some light on this that I may be missing, that would be great!
     
  2. sacto verse

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    pure ignorance and self centered assholes
     
  3. Ridiculous

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    It's because it is apparently "Ally Week" somewhere and people are getting their knickers in a twist about it. They don't like the idea of people having a week dedicated to congratulating them simply because they aren't being awful - which I suppose is fair enough, in a way.

    There are certainly some 'allies' out there who have the mentality that they should be getting praised for being allies, which is what most people are unhappy about; some people take it too far and view all allies this way.
     
  4. wc1

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    Maybe because being an 'ally' is not something that should be shouted about - it gives the impression that it is special. EVERYBODY should be accepting of things like homosexuality (not exclusively) as people need to be more open minded to a lot of stuff!
     
  5. aeva

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    wc1- Of course I agree that everybody SHOULD be accepting of the LGBT community. But the fact is that they AREN'T, and so an ally IS something special.

    I think members of the LGBT community often fail to see just how hard it can be for others to educate themselves, and to break away from what they were raised to believe. How many of us had a hard time coming to terms with our own sexuality? Why can't we give others the opportunity to do the same, as long as they are actually making an attempt?

    I also think that it belittles the support that our genuine straight allies DO show every single day, standing by our sides in the fight for equality. They put some of the same things on the line when they show their allegiance to us that we do when we come out, and that should not go unnoticed. Yes, it is the right thing to do...but that doesn't mean it's easy. I don't know where I would be without my straight allies, and I thank them for it every chance I get, and will do so until the day I die. I don't begrudge them any recognition at all.
     
    #5 aeva, Oct 10, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2012
  6. Maddy

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    I think it's generally the "give me a pat on the back for meeting minimum standards of human decency" thing.
     
  7. Lad123

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    aeva I completely agree with you but it seems the majority of EC think that people should be acting like this anyway therefore allies do not deserve praise. Its fine though, everybody is entitled to their opinion.
     
  8. Fiddledeedee

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    I also agree with you, Aeva. Yes, supposedly it shouldn't be "needed", but thanking and acknowledging someone for supporting you -- even if it's just common decency or not very much -- is always a good thing.
     
  9. SkyDiver

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    In a world where we're often killed for being who we are, I think any and all support should be greatly appreciated. No, we're not some charity that people need to help to feel good about themselves, but we need to recognize and promote human compassion and acceptance when we witness it.

    You're totally right, and it's really sad. I'd like to think that we'd know better to avoid generalizations like that, but I guess not.
     
    #9 SkyDiver, Oct 10, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2012
  10. TheEdend

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    All of my friends are allies (duh) and one of my best friends has done more for the gay community around my area than many of my gay friends have. So yes, I think allies are extremely important and we should recognize that commitment to equality.

    That being said, I have trouble agreeing with this part of it all.

    The thing is that many people who call themselves allies are not allies at all. They like gay people, they are friends with them, but some don't "agree" with us getting married or adopting children. Think of the kind of women that look at gay men like pets and nothing else. That's the kind of "ally" that I have trouble with. Specially when they think we need to thank them for their acceptance. And yes, I have met a couple of people like that.

    Once someone thinks they are completely supportive and expect praise for it is when I have a problem. I will praise you and I will thank you when I think you deserve it, but don't come to me demanding my appreciation because you "accept" me.

    Generally, yes, we should try to further educate them, but how can you educate someone who already thinks knows it all?

    I do think this is a very small percentage of people, though so it is sad that people generalize this to every single ally out there.
     
  11. BNQ2012

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    I tend to agree with this viewpoint, aeva. Yeah, everybody should be decent and accepting but the reality is that they aren't. Those straight folks who are often do so at some degree of personal risk to themselves even if it is just the risk of social disfavor. A little bit of compassion is fairly easy to give and takes nothing away from me. We all have reasons to be angry about certain things but I find that giving anger too big a place in my life eats away at my spirit and I don't have time for that.

    A little pat on the back still feels good sometimes even if you're doing absolutely nothing special. At a bare minimum, what do we gain from kicking would-be allies in their teeth? Usually nothing more than a moment of self-righteous huffing and puffing. After all, how many of us have never been guilty of failing to completely understand an experience that is not our own? Probably not one single person.

    Does that mean that I am going to walk around handing out cookies to people because they treat me like a human being? Of course not! I can be kind without feeding into a sense of entitlement. Does it mean that just because someone calls themselves an ally I won't call them out on residual bigotry or misconceptions? NO. In my opinion, one test of a true ally is openness to constructive criticism. Still, if people are trying to get to know me and be supportive the least I can do is reciprocate decency for decency.
     
  12. Pret Allez

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    I think this is a productive conversation to have, although some of the responses here have been worrying, especially comments like this:

    While I understand the frustration, I really don't see how this contributes to understanding how to deal with allies better. Is it better to have nobody who isn't queer professing to be on our side? That must have something to do with how oppressed we are.

    I try to mentor allies on how they can behave better. I am aware through my reading of ally-related articles on other issues (mostly race, although gender applies as well) that oppressed people get mad about the expectation of praise merely for being an ally. I get that it's annoying, but it can be dealt with tactfully. At the same time, I think at least some recognition is due, and of course we should not give an ally a pass on oppressive behavior. But that's why I mentor allies.

    Some people like to drive allies away. I think this is the wrong strategy, and in fact it's not even a strategy at all. There is a presumption, in my opinion and unhealthy one, that allies are always suspect. They always don't know enough, and they are always out to stroke their own egos.

    This view might have some merit if all allies actually behaved this way, but they don't, and the blatant stereotyping and refusal to engage with another individual that this attitude represents is all too common.

    We don't even have solidarity down internally as a queer community, and I feel that the safe space principle is sometimes abused by monogamous, cisgender gay men and lesbians to say shockingly terrible things to everyone who isn't those things. I really don't think that we can define for people outside what being an ally even is until we can figure that out for ourselves.
     
  13. BNQ2012

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    Good point! There is an incredible amount of irony in expecting others to live up to expectations that we ourselves cannot meet. If lack of acceptance is still pervasive enough that a long-out gay man can make the statement that he "can't think of anything worse than being brought up by two gay dads" why should we be surprised when allies stumble over their own baggage at times? Not only that, but LGBT folks often do hold prejudiced notions about folks who identify with letters in the spectrum other than their own. Lastly, LGBT folks are not immune to other forms of prejudice. There is a movement gaining momentum in Chicago's historically gay neighborhood that has very distinctive overtones of not only transphobia but class division, sexism, and good old-fashioned racism. Apparently there are those who want to keep "Boystown" cisgender, male, middle to upper class, and white. Before we jump down the next ally's throat for being, you know... human and imperfect, maybe we should look in the mirror.
     
  14. jargon

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    I'm in favor of a general "people-who-aren't-assholes week" if that solves any of these problems! :slight_smile:
     
  15. awesomeyodais

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    The more I read this thread and a few others (the whole are you offended by the term gay used in a derogatory manner discussion for example), the more I get the impression many words no longer have commonly agreed upon meanings.

    For example, is someone who merely does you the favour of not burning your house down or keying your car because you're gay an "ally"? Some lady who loves to talk about her gay hairdresser while she gives money to politicians hell bent on making sure he and his partner will never be able to marry, how does someone call her an "ally"?

    On the other end, a hetero parent who say spends time volunteering with a youth organisation/summer camp/gives speeches in schools because his kid is something other than str8, a manager who really tries to make his workplace welcoming and accepting to all, a politician who works on convincing her colleagues that certain basic concepts should not be reserved for str8 people, would you say they are merely being non-bigots and don't deserve any thanks or recognition?

    The first group don't really deserve a pat on the back or any kind of formal recognition. But let's not kid ourselves, without the second group, things will get better at a much much slower pace. Wrongly call some assholes allies, then suddenly all allies are assholes - scary logic.
     
  16. aeva

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    Awesomeyodais- I think that's my problem too. I wasn't aware that the first group of people classified as allies. They certainly don't sound like it to me! It certainly isn't fair to lump the people that DO do so much for our community in with those sorts of people.

    I just don't understand all this hate, and I never will.
     
  17. Pret Allez

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    It's not worth understanding irrationality.
     
  18. I see allies being a strong support for the LGBTQ community
    I may get some negative feedback
    But they ARE one of us! :slight_smile:
    Wether they be friends or family

    A week dedicated might be a different story..
     
  19. TheEdend

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    Okay, so this thread really got me interested because I have really never encountered any queer people that really, really disliked ally week until today.

    From what this group of people said, they are not okay with Ally Week because of the simple fact that other days such as transgender day of remembrance , national coming out day, day of silence or any other LGBT day is only that- a day. But for some reason allies get a whole week, and many find it offensive that the ally week happens with LGBT history month since it takes a whole week to focus on ally people and not LGBT people.

    "But we need the support of allies so why is it so bad?"

    They (the people I talked to which included a straight ally who has two moms) agreed that allies are important, but the point of LGBT history month is self-empowerment, which doesn't come by focusing on the need of the help of others. Specially when its a whole week while other celebrations are only a day.

    I don't personally agree with all of it, but I do think its an interesting take on it all. And it was def mind blowing to be sitting in a group (9) full of queer people and being the only one that didn't have a strong position either way.

    I just wanted to share since this thread has been on my mind.
     
  20. midwestgirl89

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    I also find it to be interesting. I don't know where exactly I stand on the issue either because I agree with both sides to a certain extent. Allies are important but I'm not sure what I think about ally week. It doesn't bother me.

    Even among allies, it seems to be a split issue. 1 of my straight guy friends is very pro-LGBT rights but gets annoyed when I thank him for being supportive of the community. He says that being an ally isn't anything special. He says he doesn't want praise for treating gay people like human beings. I understand what he's saying. I wouldn't want praise for treating someone like they're human.

    Another straight guy ally is very much into things like ally week. He is also very supportive of the LGBT community. He went through a process of first being homophobic and then becoming pro-LGBT. This guy had a hard time telling everyone he is an ally. His family is very religious and conservative so it was a big step for him to join a gay group and fight for equal rights. So I understand why for him he'd like to celebrate ally week.