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Mind-Blowing Questions

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by Gen, Nov 8, 2012.

  1. Gen

    Gen
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    A few friends and I were talking about random topics today and eventually came to the topic of deep thought questions. I, usually, consider myself an intelligent, analytical individual, but I am completely at a lost. So, I was wondering what you fine bunch thought ^_^.

    First Friends Asked: "If someone was born deaf, what language would they think in?"

    I thought, obviously they wouldnt think in one. However, when you really consider it, the human thought proccess has become extremely dependent on language. As we are analyzing this topic right now and considering a response, we are forming it through language. Surely there is much done in the mind that is chemical based, but what about the grey areas. Unless we are to assume that we could reach a higher level of thinking than the deaf, which I believe most of us wouldnt, how does the mind account for the difference.

    Related to this, is the idea of originally blind people and dreams. Dreams are an important part of the minds understanding and comprehension. But what we see in our dreams are based off our what we absorb in our conscious states. Would the mind of the blind still assess information during sleep, and how would that differ?

    Which begs the question, what if someone was deaf and blind? What happens cognitively, analytically, mentally!! Does it take longer for the mind to evovle or adjust, and how would we even know!


    Why are round pizzas put in square boxes? Its technically more expensive D:

    Why isnt there another word for 'building' and 'buildings'? Why is the verb tense used. :C

    I have an obsessive personality. I cant just 'not know' these things.
     
  2. Hard Candy

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    Cool questions. I might have some answers. Just a try.

    Square boxes are used because manufacturing circular ones would cost more because of the process, even though square ones require more cardboard. Also,m square boxes are easier to store (they can become flat).

    There are other words for buildings (if you are talking about the noun) such as infrastructures. "building" is originally used as a preposition (words that look like verb but serve as nouns) of the word build.

    About the deaf question, that's hard. Well, you only said that the person is deaf, but not blind. Perhaps they think in the language of the words they read.

    ---------- Post added 8th Nov 2012 at 10:48 PM ----------

    Oh, you mentioned about being deaf and blind... I din't know about that. Reminds me of Hellen Keller...
     
  3. Ridiculous

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    I can tell you that people who have been blind all their lives, but then gain sight through a medical procedure, can't tell the difference between a square object and a round object by looking at it (well, they can tell the difference but they can't pick which is which). This is even though they have been feeling them with their hands their whole previously-blind lives.

    Only kind of related, I suppose :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:.

    My guess would be a deaf person would think in written words. They wouldn't be able 'simulate' any sound in their heads at all, because they don't haven't experienced any real sounds to simulate from. So they would think in whatever language they wrote in, and would think via a perception of written words.

    As for deaf and blind... er, scent? Or touch, more likely - they could string together a simulation of touch and imagine what they would actually feel if they were in that situation.

    It may take less cardboard to make the box, but I think the expense of the manufacturing/design process would outweigh the savings made on cardboard.

    Not sure what you mean by this... Building as in construction, or building as in facility?
     
  4. Gen

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    Though why couldnt we collapse the circular box and change the creation of the boxes to suit the circular mold. It seems more difficult now that we have accepted the production of the boxes to be square, because the company would have to change everything. However, we would essentially use less material.

    I see what you mean about 'building', but I just dont understand why it was not changed, like any other noun. Logically the sentence, "We are building a building." doesnt make any sense. If we spoke those words while learning another language, we would wrinkle our noses. Yet, it was left unchanged. Why ~_~

    Edit: I considered the "thinking in written language" idea. Though, it would seem quite unnatural in process. Even when we visualize words we visualize them in color, on paper, to a reference. We cant just write/think words in own minds in a physical sense, because the basis of thought is blank/empty. So for someone to thinking in their written language, they would have to visualize their entire response on a physical object. How is that even possible in a reasonable time.
     
    #4 Gen, Nov 8, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2012
  5. Hard Candy

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    When boxes are produced, it's like just a huge sheet of cardboard which is cut in to many pieces. If they have to make circular ones, the have to make a special cutter for the shape.
     
  6. AAASAS

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    Animals like felines, canines, orcas, and apes have cognitive thought process and they get along without language. Humans did not come into this world with language, we created it thousands of years after we arrived because it got annoying trying to guess other peoples exact thoughts.

    Most of language comes from how you say it, not what you say, and body language can display enough information needed. If I grill someone hard my dog will respond by barking, he reads my facial features and gets a non linguistic message that is just as effective.

    Words are a creation of man, there is no such thing as a tree when you think about it, we just gave those weird looking plants that form in that matter a name, we defined it, we said it's structure and developmental process makes it a tree. But nature does not say any of this it just is.

    Deaf and blind people still learn words, they still learn to associate words with things, now those things and their pictures may become their language, how they cognitively put together a tought.

    Autistic people also often think in picture not words.

    Words are for normal people.

    Do you think in words when having sex, or think in words when driving? No you just do, you still think about things but you do.

    As for the pizza box thing, it's already been explained above.

    There are many words for different kinds of buildings, office tower, house, castle...etc. Building is the general, it's like saying why is every colour called a colour? There is still blue and green, different spectrum of light, yet we have colour? Colour is the same as the word building, it is the overall thing, but not the type. I am an animal, but what type a human. You can also use words like shelter, or structure.

    As for building a building, you can make a build, construct a building, erect a building, all kinds of verbs a building.
     
  7. AAASAS

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    Animals like felines, canines, orcas, and apes have cognitive thought process and they get along without language. Humans did not come into this world with language, we created it thousands of years after we arrived because it got annoying trying to guess other peoples exact thoughts.

    Most of language comes from how you say it, not what you say, and body language can display enough information needed. If I grill someone hard my dog will respond by barking, he reads my facial features and gets a non linguistic message that is just as effective.

    Words are a creation of man, there is no such thing as a tree when you think about it, we just gave those weird looking plants that form in that matter a name, we defined it, we said it's structure and developmental process makes it a tree. But nature does not say any of this it just is.

    Deaf and blind people still learn words, they still learn to associate words with things, now those things and their pictures may become their language, how they cognitively put together a tought.

    Autistic people also often think in picture not words.

    Words are for normal people. Normal is a bad word here.

    Do you think in words when having sex, or think in words when driving? No you just do, you still think about things but you do.

    As for the pizza box thing, it's already been explained above.

    There are many words for different kinds of buildings, office tower, house, castle...etc. Building is the general, it's like saying why is every colour called a colour? There is still blue and green, different spectrum of light, yet we have colour? Colour is the same as the word building, it is the overall thing, but not the type. I am an animal, but what type a human. You can also use words like shelter, or structure.

    As for building a building, you can make a build, construct a building, erect a building, all kinds of verbs a building.

    Buy a thesaurus... it'll fuck your mind. English loves being tautological so people can learn big words and think themselves geniuses.
     
    #7 AAASAS, Nov 8, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2012
  8. musicgeek13

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    I would assume that a person who is both deaf and blind would think/dream using whatever senses they do have (touch, smell).
     
  9. crazyhead

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    Pretend you don't know what to call a bed... What is it? You still know what it is, even though you don't know the word. It's that thing you sleep on. Imagine you don't know those words to describe it. You still have an understanding of the concept of a bed in your mind. We generally put our thoughts into words because we're used to doing it when we talk. But without the words, the idea is still there. The human language was created by taking an idea and attributing a word to it. Not the other way around. The idea came before the word. We don't NEED the words; they just help.

    I don't know about blind people. But just FYI: that's the wrong use of the term, "begs the question." "Begging the question" is a term used to describe a certain logical fallacy. A fallacy in which the argument that you use to prove your point assumes that your point is already true. ex: "Red is a soothing color to people because it is a warm color." It's begging the question because of course it's a warm color. That's fact. But you're assuming, without proof, that all warm colors, including red, are soothing.

    Square boxes won't fit in many places.

    The attribution or a combination of syllables to an idea is arbitrary.
     
  10. Gen

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    Disclaimer: I hope when I respond, I dont seem combative. I dont mean to actually disagree with people, but these are just things that I have thought about.

    Anyway, animals were my first thought. As I was watching this cat stare at me earlier, I pondered what was going on in her mind. Humans didnt always had language. However, nor did they have literature or evidence of higher thinking before it. Of course they didnt how would they write literature without language. But thats the point. If scientist believe that humans were still evolving before/when language was formed. Then how can we know that they were exerting the same level of understanding. We instinctly know to drink and eat, because of chemicals. But we are not aware of why we need to do these things. It isnt considered, its just done. We dont think of words when we are driving, but we do when we are decideing where to go.

    I'm not arguing that blind/deaf/autistic people cannot do these things. It just in comparsion to the "normal" or our understang, proccess, and actions, it doesnt make sense relative to us. Thus, the idea of human superiority amongst all life because of these skills wouldnt make sense either. I'm not asking if, but why?

    Since there are more logical words for the word 'building' than why is building still gramatically correct. If you were to switch the word(Noun and verb form) with another it wouldnt be gramatically correct. Why make such a pointless exception?
     
  11. AAASAS

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    ^
    It is grammatically correct to say I erected a shelter. That could be a house, you may sound silly, but you still are saying it correctly.

    Humans were homo sapiens sapiens(what we are today) before language came about. That is we did not speak a language when we were physically the same as we are today. Evolution takes hundreds of thousands of years, and humans haven't been around that long. Homo sapiens have and homo erectus, but not man smart smart; us.

    Language honestly is so embedded in us because we use it to describe everything that we can't possibly imagine any kind of real cognitive thought going on sans langue, mais au contraire mon frere. Other animals do it, some humans do it; autistic people again do not think in language a lot of them think in pictures there is no word association going on either strictly objects forming ideas, and guess what a lot of them have created some pretty good ideas that have been put into practical use. Some cattle farms in the U.S are designed by an autistic chick who thinks them in picture in her mind, and they work.

    Don't worry about offending either, I can have an intelligent debate without getting my panties in a knot. You could tell me all Canadians are maple syrup eating beaver fuckers and I would bat an eye. If that was your opinion I would just have a response for it.
     
    #11 AAASAS, Nov 8, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2012
  12. Ridiculous

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    I'm off to herd my herd of sheep, right after I drink my drink :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:.
    (I don't actually have any sheep)


    Can we add our own "Mind-blowing questions"?
    The question I am grappling with at the moment is whether, if our universe is a computer simulation that is running in another universe, is it possible that the parent universe is a simulation that is running in our universe in the future? (Or, we simulate a universe which simulates that universe which simulates us - 3 in a circle. Or more than 3.)

    The usual simulation theory doesn't answer any origin of existence questions, because it doesn't answer where the parent universe came from. And you can't just have a turtles-all-the-way-down situation either. However a circular dependence would answer the question of origin, as the parent creates the child which creates the parent - but has the obvious downside of not making any sense (although as Lawrence Krauss says it is naive to think that the universe's mechanics are limited to what we understand).
     
  13. Gen

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    I still see what you mean. The thing is, I'm not arguing that language is definitive to human thought and that using visualization as an equal tool is impossible. Its just that logically it should be less effective.

    I'm certain that a deaf person can be as fluent as me in a intellectual debate, but when you ask how the areas start to turn grey. How could it be possible for a blind and death person to comprehend braille? They cant hear nor see the language, so what is the braille relative/based off of. It shouldnt be possible, but its been done. It would be a extreme paradox for the mind to fully understand the brain's capability. There will always be mysteries, but it wont stop crazy people like me from obssessiving over them lol.

    About the 'buildings'. That was more of for fun, because I know there are many flaws in our languages. Its just that in a word so common, you would think that something would have been done.

    I still feel that the boxes are just ridiculous lol. It would be a shock if my mail can in varied cases, but for a item that is sold by the billion you would think that specific production would make more since if you would save more material. :/

    ---------- Post added 8th Nov 2012 at 11:46 PM ----------

    Oh, yes, I'm sorry. I had to make this thread twice because the page refreshed, and I forgot to add in that part the second time. Please do ^-^.
     
  14. AAASAS

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    You just wrinkled my brain.

    And no we aren`t in a computer simulation, we are a simulation of a computer simulating a computer simulating a simulated universe.

    SIMULATION!
     
  15. Ridiculous

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    Language is very silly sometimes. Why is it gramatically correct that that "that that" that that person used in a single sentence is valid?
    Furthermore, why is it gramatically correct that that "that that 'that that' that that" that that above sentence utilised is valid?!
     
  16. Cassandra

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    Gen, stop it! You're overthinking things!!

    Sorry, I don't intend to be mean with you :grin:

    Gen, just close your eyes and start thinking about anything, without using any words (said or unspoken). It's easier than you may believe.

    When you drop the words, you can think lightning fas. I had whole discussions with myself in matter of seconds just by thinking on the related ideas, not the words associated with those ideas. I'm no joking.

    If I write a discussion with myself over a topic I have not a defined posture, it would be pages long, while in my brain it took less than a couple seconds to complete. This is due the fact that we all think with ideas, but use the words to ... get lazy ... as it's easier to use the words as if you were talking with someone else.

    I think (and repeat: think) that deafs may use this. Just thinking the ideas (may it be images, feelings, aromas, even just colours) to have a rational tought. I've done that before, when I'm pressured to think on something and have no time to loose (or even when I don't want do be distracted by the lack of a word for a certain idea) I just see images, or hear sounds, or otherwise imagine a whole secuence of situations, without wording them.

    With blind people may be a little different, but as musicgeek13 said, they may use their remaining senses to do everything, wich cause a difference in the perception of things compared to "normal" people.

    Don't overthink, things are often more simple than it seems.
     
  17. Aquilo

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    Hadn't thought before about in which language you think if you were born deaf.. I really haven't got a clue, because grammar differs a lot between languages, so it would be learned. So if you haven't heard anything before you were born, do you have the use of grammar? :/

    Question of my own I've often thought about: Does everyone see colours the same? If I see a colour as red, would someone else see it as blue even if the light is the same?
     
  18. Cassandra

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    Yes, someone else can due to a condition called daltonism. It's a condition in wich your eyes receive a diferent spectrum of colours.

    Color (as we preceive them) are just the white light reflecting on an objet, which in turn absorb part of the spectrum of the white light, and all the remaining colors (white is made up from the combination of the rainbow colors), which were the reflected ones, reach our eyes where they are interpreted as the "color of the object".

    I don't remember much of daltonism, but I think that it causes to "exchange" the primary and secondary colors.
     
  19. SlickyPants

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    The problem is that pizza boxes don't come from a mold, they get cut from large sheets of cardboard. Square boxes are just simpler to cut and to assemble. You could cut round-shaped pizza boxes but they would be more complicated to assemble and you would not really save any material because there would be a lot of wasted cardboard that gets trimmed off to make the circular shape.

    If you were travelling fast enough toward an object then it would appear to be more blue than if you were not travelling toward it. Like if you were living on some planet that orbited some star in the Andromeda galaxy. The stars in your galaxy would appear ever so slightly more red than I would observe them here on Earth. To me they would be ever so slightly more blue. The reason for this is blueshifting. Andromeda is heading straight for The Milky Way at around 125 km per second. This relative motion between The Milky Way and the Andromeda galaxy causes a decrease in electromagnetic wavelength which causes colours in the visible spectrum to shift and become more blue. Andromeda is one of the few celestial objects moving toward us. Most are moving away from us and appear more red.
     
  20. Alexander69

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    OMG THAT QUESTION!!! OMG OMG! My brain hurts OMG HOLY CRAP! I've never thought about that before HOLY S**T :O wow so smart!!!!!!