1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

how much do you think sexism shapes your life?

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by tapsilog2012, Nov 16, 2012.

  1. tapsilog2012

    tapsilog2012 Guest

    Just wondering, for women or men, how much you think sexism shapes your life?

    I am a cis woman but I have a lot of characteristics that are not the "stereotype". Particularly my communication style, I try to be assertive and direct. I feel like this gets me in trouble a lot, so Ive worked VERY VERY hard at developing my communication abilities to ensure that I am still polite when I speak without being passive. Still, I think being assertive and being a woman REALLY BOTHERS a lot of people.

    I dont know how many times Ive heard in my life: "but your a girl, girls dont do that:bang:" Across the board, for a wide variety of interests/actions/things I have said.

    How do you think sexism has shaped your life?
     
  2. Hexagon

    Full Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Messages:
    8,558
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Earth
    Interesting question. I'm trans, and stealthed, so I've seen both sides.

    Specifically, I've noticed the majority of comments made by (straight) guys in private about women are sexist. I make a point of refraining from this practice, and most consider me weird because of it. (I refer to the people around me, rather than guys in general, although I suspect it happens a lot).

    I find that most sexism (I suppose asking me to conform to male stereotypes can be called sexism) I experience comes from other guys. Most stereotypes are natural, like not expressing emotions and stuff (although that doesn't mean it should be natural), but others are not. Like sport. I hate sport. And this tends to lead to mocking and assumptions that I'm gay.

    This irritates me. But I can imagine that sexism is worse for women.
     
  3. Linthras

    Linthras Guest

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2012
    Messages:
    2,140
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Leeuwarden (FR), the Netherlands
    Only ones I can remember are:
    Using a Japanese fan.
    Sitting with legs crossed at knees.
    Not talking about women I'd like to do it with or sex in general every other sentence. (Though that last one has become more and more rare the last couple of years.
     
  4. tapsilog2012

    tapsilog2012 Guest

    Im interested in seeing more answers, because to me, sexism feels like this MASSIVE MASSIVE force that affects most of things I do and how I move through life.

    When I find myself in spaces people are more likely to see men, its most apparent. For example, when I am practicing breakdancing, even though I have long hair, the most common question I hear from passers-by is "is that a boy or a girl"? I have a feminine face, breasts and hips so its very strange how often people are confused.

    Another example is when I was working a landscaping position during the summer, and was on the side of the road digging holes with a construction vest on. I could see the looks on some men's faces as they passed by, surprised a woman was digging and lifting stuff.

    I know surprise is a relatively benign emotion to feel, so I will get into the hostility Ive dealt with later. Ill just start with these two examples.
     
    #4 tapsilog2012, Nov 16, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 16, 2012
  5. The Escapist

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2011
    Messages:
    1,301
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Kentucky, U.S.
    Gender:
    Female
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Other
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    I don't know what to say. Except it deeply saddens me how prevalent sexism is.
    I don't understand.
     
  6. ArcaneVerse

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2008
    Messages:
    529
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    I think sexism can be a big problem but if its effecting you this much I would be looking more inwards then outwards but then again I dont know your life.

    I honestly dont see how this is people being sexist? Its seems more about peoples confusion about your gender and not that as a girl you shouldn't be break dancing.

    Again I dont think this is sexist, I would be surprised too that there was a woman in that line of work, not that they cant do it but thats its not common for them to be in that line of work. Unless people were calling out horrible things, im sorry but being surprised is not being sexist.

    ---------------------------------

    I don't think I've ever experienced direct sexism, who knows what could have been said behind my back though.

    I think we have come a long way in regards to sexism, I mean it still happens and can be a real problem but for the most part I don't think it's a major issue anymore. If your a hard, dedicated worker and are good at your job, gender doesn't play a big part.

    I think there are some male dominated work places that a woman might at first have to work a little harder to prove they can do the job but I don't necessarily think thats being sexist. I mean at the same time if some skinny kid applied for a job or apprenticeship as a tradie they would have to work harder then others to prove they're capable.

    The most common thing I come across is sexist jokes but the people who make them aren't sexist themselves and are usually said around women or by women who know how to take a joke.

    What I also see a lot is people perceiving sexism where there isn't any. Llike one of my closest friends who I play WoW with is always interpreting the slightest thing and blowing it into this huge drama, she has this odd tendency to think because shes a strong, skilled and intelligent female that every guy is threatened by her and tries to bring her down. Which wouldn't be a problem if it was true but I'm usually always there when its supposedly happened and I was like what are you talking about?

    But I dont know I'm male so maybe I dont know what its like.
     
  7. tapsilog2012

    tapsilog2012 Guest

    :tantrum:OK WOW^^^^.

    I said that those were BENIGN (relatively harmless) examples. Do you want me to give you better examples?

    Being turned down for a landscaping job because they "wanted a man".

    Being told not to bother learning a lot of moves when breakdancing, because Im a woman and they are "too hard for women". REPEATEDLY, from MULTIPLE SOURCES, the first couple years I was breaking. When I would continue to try to learn them I would be laughed at instead of helped. Of course, Im better than a lot of those guys now, but anyways....

    Being told by my dad over and over again that since I am a girl I am bad at math, and then forcing me to do up to 5 hours of extra math homework a night to make up for it.

    Having to speak and carry myself a certain way that feels unnatural to me in the VAST NUMBER of customer service jobs I have worked. Smile more, look more passive and happy, and apologize for my mistakes far more than my male coworkers.

    There are "positive stereotypes" too, like people assuming I will be a cleaner tenant because I am a girl. Im kind of a slob (working to fix that) but if you think about it that is still sexism.

    Im shaking right now because I cant believe people can be so blind. Tell me how to "look inwards" in order to change other peoples prejudices??????? Seriously
     
    #7 tapsilog2012, Nov 16, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 16, 2012
  8. Pret Allez

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2012
    Messages:
    6,785
    Likes Received:
    67
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Gender:
    Female (trans*)
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    Some people
    Sexism has significantly shaped my life. For one thing, it's the reason for all heterosexism directed at men, which has affected me a lot. Then there's the sexist things that I've done and regretted doing. Now there's the fact that I consider sexism nearly everyday, and want to do whatever I can to eradicate it. So if sexism is not hurting me or people I love, it's got me all bothered about what I'm going to do to put a stop to it.

    Are you kidding me? Having to work harder than others would to overcome the assumption that other people have about your sex being less capable... Is not an example of sexism?
     
    #8 Pret Allez, Nov 16, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2012
  9. ArcaneVerse

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2008
    Messages:
    529
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    I still don't count those examples as being sexist.

    Yes those to me are real examples of sexism.

    I agree. Same with people thinking guys will like or be good at sports. "positive stereotypes" can be just as harmful.

    Like I said I dont know you or your life. My statement was more of a general statement then one directed at you. Some people tend to be more sensitive to things and perceive them the wrong way (like my story about my friend), thats not to say they don't experience sexism at all but that they focus on it so much that its unhealthy imo.

    And the look inwards thing is more about finding the strength within yourself to move past the bs of life and be proud and confident of who you are, because you cant change everyone else but you can change you. I wasn't trying to blame you for other peoples prejudices or anything, nor was I trying to trivialize anything you have been through.

    ------------------------------

    Yes and no. Its not as simple as stating its sexist, when there are other people who would have to prove themselves just as much as some women might. If someone had been running a tradie business for a long time and had never worked with a women before or even had one apply for a job, is it so wrong to be uncertain of their capabilities seeing as they are an unknown factor? Women are generally not as physically strong as men, thats not a sexist statement its fact, so yes they would have to work harder to prove they could work just as hard and efficiently as the others, just like a male would who didn't look physically capable.

    To me it would be sexist if they didnt give them a job or a chance at the job in the first place just because they are female, or they gave her all the rough jobs or too much work for people just starting out to purposely break them.
     
  10. Pret Allez

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2012
    Messages:
    6,785
    Likes Received:
    67
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Gender:
    Female (trans*)
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    Some people
    I have no idea what a tradie business is, so I can't really tell you. Still, many manual labor jobs where strength is a factor have tests you have to pass. (For example, my father had to pass a fitness test for his job.) So if a female applicant can pass the test, it is still sexist to have the assumption that she will perform less well. In the aggregate, women are less strong than men, in the aggregate. But an applicant who can pass the test is meeting the requirements already, and shouldn't be subjected to special scrutiny or worries about ability. That would still be sexist.
     
  11. tapsilog2012

    tapsilog2012 Guest

    I have another example too, that is more of a theory, but I think that maybe the mainstream fetishization of lesbianism ("lesbian" porn for straight men is very mainstream) can be attributed partly to sexism.

    I know when I first became sexually aware at 18, I was dating a straight guy. I told him I fantasize about women, and his response was basically....."drool....hot". Instead of addressing my concerns about my sexuality as legitimate, he basically treated it like a little sexual game or something.

    So I stayed closeted for the next 11 years. Part of my reasoning was that since my attraction to women ATTRACTED MEN, in a convoluted way that made me EVEN MORE STRAIGHT. Because it made me more desirable to men.

    It makes no sense now, I know.

    I was defining my desires by other men's perception of them, literally.
     
  12. ArcaneVerse

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2008
    Messages:
    529
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    Yeah in oz we call people who work manual labor type jobs, like brick layers etc. tradies.

    I'm not sure if we have fitness tests here for those sorts of jobs, i may be wrong but I'm unaware of them and didn't factor that into my opinion. I would prolly change my opinon if they there was a fitness test.

    In certain types of jobs its better to hire someone who can do more then someone who cant, if people cant cut it then they wont be in a job for long. Females just like men who appear to be less physically capable would have to prove themselves, its not really about gender at all.
     
  13. Bree

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2012
    Messages:
    657
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    BC, Canada
    It's funny you know, when I was younger I didn't understand feminism. I couldn't figure out what they were fighting for, and therefore saw them as crazy men-haters. Then I learned about the rest of the world.

    In the liberal left-wing community I grew up in, women were absolutely equal. I can't think of a single situation that I experienced or witnessed that showed sexism. It was also cool to be gay at my high school, soo...

    I'm naturally submissive and friendly, and I don't really have to edit myself that way to get what I want. People like me and trust me pretty easily. I do sometimes play up being pretty. When I was trying to find an apartment, I did dress very feminine (including digging up an old bra that I used to wear) because I knew that it would be easier if I didn't show any signs of gender nonconformity. I'm pretty flat-chested, and I usually just wear a baggy shirt--over skinny jeans, I love skinny jeans. And mascara.

    ...so yeah, I do use my female body to my advantage sometimes, in full understanding that playing it up is harmful to women who don't conform.
     
  14. Owen

    In Loving Memory Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2007
    Messages:
    613
    Likes Received:
    13
    Location:
    Massachusetts, USA
    There's zero doubt in my mind that sexism, patriarchy, kyriarchy, and privilege shapes everyone's life in innumerable ways; the only question is whether they notice it or not.

    Sexism has definitely shaped my life. Like Pret Allez, it's made me do a lot of things I'm definitely not proud of, and it's responsible for most of the homophobia I've had to face. (If you look at the sociological research, a lot of homophobia comes from the idea that men should be the dominant sex, and that by having sex with another man, a man is letting himself be dominated, so guys get angry at that man giving up his power.) My way of fighting it is being the change I want to see in the world and trying to model the kinds of egalitarian attitudes I would like everyone to have, and hoping it catches on.

    That exactly how it went down for me, too.
     
  15. Suffocation

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2012
    Messages:
    236
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    New York City
    I'm pissed at the 'expectations' a grown man has. To well, you know. Work endless hours, treat his wife like they're the fucking only person in the world, and to shower his family in money. I, a) Think it's total bullshit. b) Sad that this is still what is expected.
     
  16. tapsilog2012

    tapsilog2012 Guest

    @Bree I do the same thing when apartment hunting, pull out the tight jeans and tight sweater and smile a lot and make my body language really feminine. Then the tight jeans/sweater go back in the closet until I have to go to a family function or something:lol:

    Wish I was naturally submissive and friendly though, Im friendly but definitely not submissive, and not friendly in the "feminine", small talk-chatty "ooooh lets get our nails done" kind of way. A lot of people think my "attitude" (thats usually what they call it) is acting. They usually say "stop acting hard!" I dont ACT HARD, Im just myself and it turns out it comes across kind of macho.
     
    #16 tapsilog2012, Nov 16, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 16, 2012
  17. Bree

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2012
    Messages:
    657
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    BC, Canada
    I'm not girly either! I'm not a girl, and I dislike most girl activities--painting nails etc.--and those I do like I do in private! But I AM "feminine" so to speak. It's actually kind of frustrating, because I don't have any way of expressing my gender identity. I wish I was male-bodied because I could express it better.

    My family gets me as I am, take it or leave it. I did get the girl clothes out for my foster-sister's Albertan grandparents, knowing that they would already be upset about my lip piercing.
     
  18. tapsilog2012

    tapsilog2012 Guest

    O sorry Bree I missed "genderqueer" in your box I guess, when I glanced at it. That's so interesting that you are genderqueer and are "feminine" but are female-bodied. Do you just mean your body language is feminine then, or what do you mean?
     
  19. dreamcatcher

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2011
    Messages:
    845
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    USA
    Yeah I definitely think sexism has a played a major role in my life.
    -When I worked at this pizza place, I was the only girl there. They told me that because I was a girl I had to stay up front and take orders and look pretty since I would probably suck at any manual work they had to do.

    -At the same pizza place, the men would make crude sexual jokes and talk about how I should suck a dick. It was basically harassment and it was disgusting.

    -My father is in control of the money in the house and all the decisions. My mom doesn't get any say because she's a woman.

    -In my family, a lot of the men have cheated and it was deemed acceptable because they are men. They were even applauded for it. The girls who do that in my family are called whores.

    -My parents kept me and my sisters sheltered because we are girls and they think girls need to be protected. My cousin who lived with us on the other hand was allowed to go out really late at night and hang out with a shady crew of people because he was a boy and could take care of himself.

    -I've been told time and time again that a woman's worth is in how she presents herself and her beauty.

    -Where I used to live, if a guy didn't have sex until a certain age, he was considered less of a man or 'gay'.

    -I've literally been told I have to learn how to cook if I want to get a husband.
    And well, the list can go on forever...
     
  20. Bree

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2012
    Messages:
    657
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    BC, Canada
    I'm a bit like a kitten. That's the best descriptor I can think of. I'm little and fragile and silly and want to be taken care of, but am not girly in any way and connect in my head better to guys than girls (who I don't feel similar to at all). I'm shy (not visibly, but I keep mental distance) of people I don't know and am inclined to hide, but I'm playful and purr around people I know. I also dislike any kind of manual labour--and at the same time would probably suicide of I was stuck at a desk job for the rest of my life. My hobbies are around animals, writing, and music. I want to be androgynous pretty, not girl pretty. A kitten is genderless.

    I actually think I'm going to go change that to androgynous...

    I have two kittens. Both orange. Thomas is 12 weeks old; I've had him since he was 4 1/2 and I had to bottle-feed him. Leah is 16 weeks.
     
    #20 Bree, Nov 16, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2012