The old "Christianity vs Homosexuality

For me personally I don't follow any religion because it just hold you back people thinking of their going to hell and all that hubba hubba just doesn't fly with me. Also their is no evidence for me to see that their is such a "God" out their and that he created everything that there is to see. And that he has some power over us and all that. Put yeah. But yet i do like to think about mythology and such..fairies,magic,demons,all that good stuff.

 

It is great to see many homosexual and homosexual friendly Christians, however, unfortunately, there are still many who take it too far. It doesn't mean every Christian is a homophobic psycho, but it does show that Christianity can be a dangerous weapon in the hands of those who use it to fuel their bigotry, or use the religion as a way to say "My way is right". Like I said, not everyone is like this but there are still many.

I myself am agnostic, but think that if there is a God, he wouldn't make someone a certain way and then rebuke them for it. As many homo-friendly christians have told me "the bible contradicts itself in many places, but I would rather take Jesus's messages of love into account rather than one line in Leviticus telling me I should hate you".

Unfortunately, not everyone has this view. And that is the reason that certain people have the same view as Dawkins.

NB: I don't hate Christianity, it can enrich many people's lives. But I hate people who use it as an excuse to ask me to "turn or burn", and that is when I wish these certain people had never discovered Christianity.

 

I'd like to agree with 90 percent on what DownTownTom said..
The other 10 percent is just because I would have worded it a little differently and I don't know what/who Negasta is...

 

Im Agnostic but i think that only cause i was FORCED and still am to go to church

 

I used to go to a Catholic school, now I have a fear of nuns. I think that Christianity is okay, but the people that use it to fuel their hatred are the true sinners and the ones that are going to burn in hell. I was always taught that God and Jesus loved all, not just certain people, and that God doesn't look at people and go, "I hate you because you are gay, burn in hell!!! *Evil laughter*."

 

Maybe I can help clear up some of the misconceptions about the atheist attitude towards Christianity.

Firstly, we do not all hate Christianity. There are anti-theists and there are people who fall into a more neutral group. I didn't make myself hate it, nor did Dawkins make me hate it, or Hitchens, or Darwin, or anyone else. I'm fine with religion as long as it leaves me alone and doesn't interfere with my life, but it seems to have a problem doing that.

Second, not all of us "love to shoot down Christianity". Unless someone directly challenges me, I tend to stay out of debates. If people would stop pestering me about how I can't possibly be moral or happy, or about how I'm going to suffer if I don't listen to them, then most Christians would probably never hear a negative comment from me. And I'm afraid that no matter "how much more" there is to Christianity, until it can convince me that it's right and all the others are wrong, I can't be bothered to make a conversion attempt.

 

I completely agree and its exactly the same for me.

Despite the fact that i am an atheist and religion is something i am not interested in, i have no problem with other people who are religious as long as they don't try to preach it to me.
Unfortunately there are a lot of people who are ignorant and misguided in their interpretation of christianity and religion itself...why does a religion based on love and acceptance preach hate and violence?? :bang:

 

Christianity has been an amazingly successful religion because of its ability to adapt. We don't put up rabbit idols on Easter and Roman Evergreens(from the Saturnalia) on Christmas for nothing.
GLBT people and our rights are the biggest challenge to the Church since the Reformation, and it's torn some churches apart and created new ones like the Metropolitan Community Church.
I was raised Christian but always questioned the whole Trinity/Son of God thing, and now I'd classify myself as a definite Believer in a Higher Force who tends to favor the existential humanism of Buddhism.
Since Christianity has a mission to actively bring people in, there's a natural friction from people who don't like being approached; part of the deal.

 

i agree with most of what you say too, downtowntom.
i definately feel there is a negativity towards christianity on EC from certain members.

but whatever.
im gay, and a christian.
and if other people cant/wont do it, im not gonna argue about it.

 

I'm agnostic, so I think that it would be impossible for us to actually have knowledge of the higher being (if there is one) because there is no proof. Because there is no proof, there is no proof that one religion is right and one is wrong, so I'm sitting on the fence between religions (and becoming athiest) until God, or any other religious figure etc comes down from the sky and let's us know what's going on.

That said, I am (or at least try to be) as respectful of other people's religions as I can be, because whatever religion they are a part of is doing good for them, whether it be giving them a sense of community, friendships or a goal or purpose in life. Why knock someone who is just doing what they believe in. The only problem I have with religion is when people attempt to shove it down other people's throats, such as the Westboro Baptist Church indoctrinating their children with ignorant messages of hate. Other than that, I'm pretty tolerant of other ppl's beliefs

Also, there must be something wrong with some part of my brain. First, I read ppreston's post as him saying he was 1/2 a lesbian, now I read this:

as him having a fear of nouns...I'm such a mo hehe

 

not just in leviticus, anti-homosexual warnings can be found in corinthians, exodus and deuteronomy.

to each his/her own is my opinion. i don't like the way everything has abeen twisted in religion. it basically just follows the political fads of the time, and is generally hypocritical.

 

Hmm, this is a hard one. I used to be somewhat religious but now I'm
more agnostic. When I did believe, I didn't think that god hated me for
who I was, but I guess I got fed up with my fundamentalist extended family
and just decided I'd had enough of the kool-aid. I think there's something
bigger out there, but I'm not sure if it's god or if it's just fate. The thing with
the bible though is that you can twist it to say pretty much whatever you want.

 

The problem with christianity + homosexuality is that is states very clearly in the old testament:

Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with a man, as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be on them.

and to make it worse, in the new testament:

1 Corinthians 6:9 - Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders.

I hate to say it, but it's impossible to believe that the bible is the incontestable word of god and be homosexual. I am currently researching christianity as far in depth as I can, and although some things lead me to believe it's true, other things lead me to believe it's just a fabrication. I believe moses existed, and the god of moses existed since he revealed himself to the entire nation of israel. This, I must say, does not bode well for my will to become a christian, or even a jew/muslim because it condemns homosexuality both in the pentatuk (first few books of the bible) and in the new testament. What can a spiritual bi-guy do? Only time will tell.

Please do not misunderstand my intentions. I am not a Christian, infact I'm not sure that I believe in any of the bible, but my interpretation (and that's all it is, my opinion) of these two verses, tells me that you can not live in the kingdom of heaven if you live a life of homosexuality, the most condemning of the two being in the new testament. This is one of the reasons I hate the bible, and what it teaches, but I feel obligated to point it out when the subject is raised. Can you be a homosexual Christian if you believe the bible word for word? My opinion is no. Please don't hate me.

 

Actually, the translation of corinthians is stightly vague. It depends on how you translate the ancient greek word (and I promise this is true) "arsenokoites". It can mean "male temple prostitute" or "gigolo for rich women" or "special gay friend".

The bible also condemns men who shave, people who wear clothes of two different fabrics, women who pray without a covering on their head, gold and pearls, people who eat shrimp. If we took the bible word for word, practically everyone would be condemned.

NB: Besides, the bible says nothing about Lesbians so why Christians feel the need to persecute us as well is beyond me.

 

^That still doesn't take away the rather clear death sentence imposed by Leviticus.

I also do not single out Christianity for my loathing, I despise all religion equally.

I also am not an Atheist solely because of the nonsense in the Bible and other holy books, there are a multitude of philosophical and scientific objections I hold to the existence of any supernatural entities.

My knockdown argument against theism was adopted from Christopher Hitchens, whom I will paraphrase here:

"The conservative estimate of the time that the human species as we know it has been around on Earth is approximately 100 000 years. For most of that 100 000 years, people did not live longer than 25 years, usually dying of their dentition or microbes they did not know existed, while a vast number of women and children died in childbirth and of the children that survived birth, a large percentage died of in infancy. To be a theist, you have to believe that heaven sat by and did nothing about this horrendous situation for approximately 94 000 of those years and then suddenly decided to reveal itself to a small tribe of bronze age illiterates in some specific location (varies by religion). You should be very glad not to be compelled to believe this nonsense."

 

I try to stay neutral in these debates. I think it's important to be respectful of other people's opinions, but also important to not offend.

I can't help but think that if homosexuality has been around long enough to be written up in the bible, it's got to be something that's fairly natural and normal - something that has existed for thousands of years. Back then it certainly wasn't a 'media influence' or the breakdown of the 'family unit' that was causing it...

And I find that concept somewhat comforting. Being gay goes way back. Cool.

 

Darwin wasn't anti-religion, he was just a scientist. It was his research that some considered anti-christian, since it didn't mesh with their beliefs. And as for Dawkins reason, I'm not intimately familiar with his work, but I'm willing to bet he sees religion as a form of willful ignorance that's not helping to advance mankind.

We don't really know how much we DON'T know, as far as scientific explanations go. I'm willing to bet 3% is low-balling it. And I would say that an explanation that a god that existed out of nothing at all, a god that just made itself, is slightly more absurd.

It's a little difficult to prove a doctrine that states it requires no evidence. And I find the implication behind this sentence a little insulting.

No argument here. Most atheists recognize that there's a lot more depth to Christianity than the inflammatory, hell-and-brimstone types.

 

I don't really understand how Christianity and homosexuality can ever be compatible. Leviticus 18:22 says "No man is to have sexual relations with another man; God hates that.". In my opinion that would mean that unless all gay men stay celibate forever they will be hated by God. I just don't see how that can be interpreted any other way, the only explanation could be some kind of translation error.

Not that I hate Christianity at all, though. I'd love to hear your opinion on my opinion and how you feel about particular passages in the Bible which speak negatively of homosexuals.