Question LGBT Christians

other... because our society has been oppressing homosexuals, (or anyone non-heterosexuals) from the beginning of time, and when one begins to question homosexuality and what it means to be homosexual in this society, it is common for the reaction to be fear (or perhaps homophobia). We are taught to fear. Getting over this fear is one of the hurdles in learning to understand homosexuality and becoming okay with it because homophobia, as well as hatred towards homosexuals, is a reality that has been created over history. Is it okay? It's a reality. However, find positive spaces! But know the reality is there are still a lot of people( a majority) that hate and discriminate.. some are not even aware that they are doing it! *heavy sigh*

 

I would agree that it depends on the level of homophobia and whether it is genuine homophobia or simply a disagreement in regards to whether or not individuals should engage in homosexual relationships.

I have no problem with individuals who disagree with me in regards to the modern world application of verses aimed at individuals from a different culture, period in time and with a different understanding of the words themselves (and, for that matter, the translations that have been made since which occasionally differ just enough to change the entire context of a passage when one word is interpreted to have a slightly different meaning). But then that is not homophobia, it is an interpretation of the Bible and what is meant by various verses which is different from my own and that is fine. I have no problem with them saying it is a sin, that they disagree with it, that they hope I truly find the Lord and have the Holy Spirit move me to either celibacy or heterosexuality. That's fine, when they sit me down and explain their views to me I know they do it with love and a genuine belief that it is a sin, and I thank them for that. However that is not really homophobia.

When someone uses the Bible to justify beating up someone who is homosexual, for refusing to associate with them, for being deliberately malicious in their choice of words when regarding those who are homosexual then they fall into sin. When they fall into the trap of believing it to be a vile, disgusting thing because it offends them and they are using the Bible to justify their gut reaction as opposed to basing their views on what the Bible actually says (not just about homosexuality, but as a whole) then I get antsy. Having had individuals inform me that it was perfectly fine for a Christian to kick out and refuse to allow their husbands son into their home after discovering they were gay but fail to remember that they are both divorcees whose separation from their first spouses did not comply with any acceptable reason found in the Bible then I think they should spend a little more time evaluating why they hold the views they do when they so blatantly ignore other issues which, in my mind, are a lot more pressing than a 17 year old who was brave enough to tell his guardians that he was gay in the first place. I also tend to find those who are hateful, who focus on hate rather than actually acting in love, to be very poor at upholding those Christian values they're oh so determined to hammer home.

However just because I believe the actions of those who are genuinely hateful and using the Bible and their faith as an excuse to act in a vile manner towards those whose lifestyles they "disgusting" are inexcusable I am not comfortable saying that they are going to hell. It is not my call to say anyone is going to hell, and I should not make any assumptions about whether or not someone is or is not condemned. I think they should re-evaluate how to tackle their disagreement with homosexuality, and I think they should spend a little more time getting their own house in order to make sure they are not living in blatant sin before they start casting stones at others who may/may not share their view of scripture.

The Bible provides many people with a genuine fear of homosexuality the screen they need to hide behind the fact "God condemns it, my feelings come from knowing it is wrong and being a good Christian!" rather than exploring why it is they have these feelings. I also believe that Christian groups have tended to handle the issue of homosexuality poorly, leading to many individuals adopting an approach to disagreements regarding the morals of sexual preferences which is not exactly open to being flexible or encouraging discussion beyond "the gays are sinning". Heck, I belong to a religious forum and whilst it's perfectly acceptable for someone to post that all homosexuals should be euthanised so as to cleanse the world of their sin it is not acceptable to comment that homosexuality is a perfectly natural part of the sexual spectrum and it is up to each individual to decide how to progress.

Many churches encourage the fear response, the don't talk about it and it doesn't exist response, the blanket "it's a sin" response. That's wrong. It allows for individuals to develop behaviours and attitudes towards homosexuality that are far removed from how they should act, and it allows for individuals to forget that it is one thing for a Christian who wishes to live in a Christian manner to be informed they must decide between God and their sexual preferences, but quite another for them to skip even trying to bring people to Christianity in the first place and just saying "nope, all of you have to abide by my religious morals even though you're not religious, because it offends me". Which is wrong.


I'm rambling.


TL, DR: I think that when people start using the Bible to justify hate speeches, assault and other such actions which are based out of fear, hate, disgust, etc. then those individuals have become blind to the sin they are committing. However I will not say anyone is condemned to hell, that judgement is between them, God and possibly individuals with a sounder grasp of scripture than I.

 

I put "other," because I don't believe I can really tell anybody if they're going to hell or not. I don't judge homophobes because honestly I have close family members who are, and they're just not exposed to the community (since I won't out myself to them lol). They haven't had to face the specific obstacles we face, and many are raised to believe that gay people go to hell.

They're simply ignorant, and I used to be as well. Who can really say who is going to hell? Hey that rhymed! :icon_bigg

 

See, I don't know about anyone else, but in the ultra conservative Southern Baptist church I was raised in, I was taught that the only unforgivable sin was rejection of salvation. All of us sin, no sin is worse than another, and it's never anyone's place to say what the status of another's salvation is.

Sin does not necessarily mean hell, and it's not some tally count of "bad" vs. "good" deeds like so many think it is. Where the problem for homosexuality comes in is that because of their ignorance, they see it as a sin, and any sort of embracing of it is seen as embracing a sinful identity, which seems like a rejection of salvation. That's why LGBT people haven't really been welcome in the church. They see the self identification of LGBT as an unwillingness to change and give up sin. To give an imperfect, but appropriate analogy, it's like accepting an unwilling-to-change addict into AA.

There's a difference between ignorance and hate, and while they more often than not feed off each other, what you ask is not really a valid question with a simple answer in my humble opinion.

 

I believe in God, I believe certain parts of the bible ie "love thy neighbour", "do unto others as you would unto yourself" etc..

However, all this Leveiticus crap is absoulte nonsense! If Christians are going to use Leviticus against homosexuality they may as well not get hair cuts!

Leviticus 19:27 "'Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard."

Anyway, if we all did go to hell, it must be one fabulous place.

 

Homophobia is not always a sin, in my opinion; I don't know if it sometimes is. It does not, however, necessarily mean that one goes to Hell.

 

I was a christain and a acualy did a ton of looking up on this and and it kinda says that but the parts whare they talk abt that some of it is out of context and if u put all of them together it points to no and I rember reading abt this and it said something around "... And men having unnatural felling a for other men" and in the Old Testament it says abt the haing rape and that is NOT gay or homosexual it was a way to humalate them and the werd TGIF in that is that he offered his two daughters to have sex with them because they were supposibly angels and then the angels suposibly blew up da city that that guy lived in and have him a chance to get out and he did and he took his daughters and then lived in the mountains and then his daughters whanted children so they got in drunk and mated with thare Dad whuch is kinda messed up and I have read alot of the book chapters and verses




And wow this is a long post

 

Pretty much everything is a sin lol and homophobia is too, because it is a way of putting up barriers against people around us. Homophobia is in the mindset of "us vs. them," like racism, sexism, etc.

Jesus said to love one another as ourselves. Homophobia obviously fails to follow that law. Jesus also says "Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven;" (Luke 6:37)

So if that's true, the reverse is as well. Judge others and you will be judged. That is why homophobia is a sin... it is meant to criticize, judge, and persecute a minority group.

However, everyone sins and judges to some point, so I could not determine the fate of others. Only God can do that.

 

I can't wrap my head around this, so I picked "it depends".

I will also disclaim that while I was raised in a Catholic family, I am not currently practicing (as I suspect many LGBT Catholics are in the same boat). I do agree with most of the previous posters that it's not my place to judge whether people that I don't know are going to hell (or even people that I *do* know, or even myself). However, in terms of "not loving your neighbor", and "treat others as you would like to be treated", I do believe that homophobia is a sin.

However, we've all sinned in our lives (and I do mean everyone), so judging whether someone is going to hell for sinning or not is simply not in my purview. I also don't really have time to think about it - I have enough trouble keeping *my* life in order, let alone worrying about what someone else might or might not be going to hell for.

 

But how are we defining homophobia? As in the genuine fear of homosexuals and all that is related to them or the hatred that is expressed for reasons not related to a phobic response?

Simply being phobic is not a sin.

 

No. I don't believe in sins or hell. I also don't know of any religion that condemns homophobia as a sin, and as the phrasing of this question is clearly religious, I don't see how, even in the unlikely event I am wrong, homophobes could be sent to a hell for homophobia.

Furthermore, I would generally come to the conclusion that while their behaviour and beliefs are horrible, they can't be blamed for their beliefs. Homophobia, literally, fear of homosexuality. Fears should be treated and pitied, not condemned to hell.

 

Phobias/fears aren't sins.

However, I would consider hatred a sin.

1 John 3:15
Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life in him.

 

most of this.

didn't Jesus X basically say to ignore the Old Testament anyway?

 

I believe hating other people is a sin, period.

But I think only God knows who will go to Heaven and Hell. So by condemning someone to hell or saying you know they are going to hell/heaven, is basically presuming that you are God or know better than God. Which is also a sin.