Gay Stereotypes

[NobodyKnows]

It seems that in todays day and age, homosexuality is becoming more and more accepted into our society with each passing day. We can look around and see homosexual influences beginning to change the face of the modern media, indicated by the increasing number of openly gay men and lesbian women present on our TV shows, in our movies, and in other venues of mass entertainment.

As a result, many gays and lesbians are declaring, "mission accomplished," and are embracing the phenomena as the emergence of a homosexual-friendly society.

I am not one of these people. When I watch gays and lesbians on TV, all I see are shameful stereotypes. I see the cliché, extremely effeminate gay men, portrayed as loud and obnoxious while being overall weak and timid in the face of conflict. I see the "raging bull-dike" lesbians, completely stripped of all of their femininity. Where are the strong homosexual men and women? Where are the gay men with conviction and determination?

I am a gay man who is still very much in the closet. When I look around me and see these socially accepted, media-created depictions of gay men, I have no desire to join their ranks. I see shallow, ridiculous people that are nothing like me. I am not effeminate. I am not a "drama queen." I am not a sex addict. I am a gay, strong, and intelligent person that has a lot more depth and value than how the popular media portrays me.

If you feel like depictions of homosexual men and women in the modern media portray you accurately and fairly, feel free to tell me to shut up. I, on the other hand, know that I am so much more than some insipid socialite, so much more than some sexual deviant. I feel that these weak and vapid images of homosexuals in the popular media are only prolonging the period of time before we are actually accepted into society as equals, not as ammusing entertainment or objects of cheap comedy, but as real people with something to contribute.

Please respond, this has been something that has been bothering me for way too long. I want to know if I'm the only gay man that feels this way.

[Psychedelic Bookmarks]

I don't think you are the only one. There are a lot of stereotypes out there. However, there are some positive images.

For example, there are people like Will Smith, an out gay singer who is not insipid or shallow (in comparison to any other pop star). Or characters such as the uncle in "Little MissSunshine", a gay academic, who may be depressed an suicidal, but it also very multi-layered, intelligent and compassionate man.

For lesbians, there are people like Margaret Cho, a strong successful bi woman, or the women of the L Word, many of whom are more glamorous and feminine than the average straight woman.

Try and focus on encouraging the good images rather than letting the bad things get you down. We may not be represented in all our wonderful diversity yet, but remember that the media is a very inaccurate picture of any section of society. Besides, it's not what the world thinks of you that counts, it's your self belief and happiness in your own amazing person.

[Jace]

your not i dont really like it either but i ammm prettyy effeminate and "gay" lollll

[Beebo]

When I read something like this, I want to cry...

Its hurtful to people

would you feel better if the stereotype was positive???? Cause you would still be an outcast, you would still be ridiculed because you are not like more than 90% of the world.



I've been sitting here over an hour thinking of how to respond...I am so flustered because between this, and the flamboyant thread I just want to give up hope on a world that might one day not be judgmental... things like this make me so sad...

I'm the most straight acting guy you will meet. and so I can understand that its hard... but like... its not any easier for anyone else... just pls stop man... ... its so hurtful to everyone in the long run if we start hating on others... ...

just stop...

[NobodyKnows]

I am in no way, shape, or form trying to insult effeminate gay people. I just think its kind or ridiculous that that's the general concept for what it means to be homosexual. Never does the media talk about our struggle or the tremendous courage it takes to come out and the extreme adversity we face as a result of it, yet it goes on ad nauseum about how all gays have an incessant shopping addiction and are all incredibly emotionally fragile.

I'm sick of being portrayed so one-dimensionally. It's because of these stereotypes that we're systematically discriminated against in the work place and in schools. A respectable person can be described as strong and ambitious, laden with concrete convictions. These stereotypes of gay people only serve to undermine and discredit the character of homosexuals.

[Beebo]

If I am getting you right, you are saying that you are fed up with being classified under a stereotype right? thats fine.

I think you should make it clear tho, that you are not blaming the gay tv hosts and gay celebrities. because there are alot of people on this site who fall under the same categories as those people.

[Beebo]

maybe instead of categories I should say characteristics... cause thats the point of this right? to break the categories.. the stereotypes.

[NobodyKnows]

What bothers me is that yes, these people are a part of the gay community, yet so are a wide assortment of vastly different individuals. Being gay shouldn't define everything about you, yet the media has pretty much set the standard by putting gays on TV only if they act and look exactly like this minority of the gay community.

I want the media to show gays as how they are; people. Average, normal, people.

I can definitly see where you are coming from. But for me, I have no idea how but people can tell I am gay. I have no idea how, but I guess i just give that vibe. As for people who flaunt their orientation and rainbow themselves up, thats how they chose to dress. Just how i choose men.

And of course media would focus on them. The majority of media goes for interesting over intelligent. In America all most people want to see something interesting. Its not what many people want to see all the time, but thats how it is. You might see one thing on TV about a guy who is homosexual that has something to do with gayness. But i know i can go on to an interior design show or project runway and see at least two gay guys on each show. Thats just how it is. Very disagreeable to some people.

But it could be worse. I mean look at Jamaica. I would much rather live in the conditions i do in America than there and i hope that gay people their can live well.

[SkyTears]

Originally Posted by ppreston9

And of course media would focus on them. The majority of media goes for interesting over intelligent.

very true. i don't see myself as one of those gays that just goes all out. it's basically, yeah i gay so what end of story, and i go on with my life like any other straight person would.

[sdc91]

I agree 100% with NobodyKnows. It's really sad how we're all stereotyped in the media.

And if you're arguing this, you're arguing against showing the diversity of the gay community, which is sad because it's a microcosm of the whole world. There's people of every personality, race, belief system, behaviors, etc., and the media should portray all gay people, not just a minority of a minority.

[kramer362]

i think a lot of stereotypes have some truth to them, which is why they become thought of as representing a population in the first place. i am guessing back in the day the 'masculine' gay guys stayed in the closet, because it wasn't as obvious as with 'effminate' gay men, so that's how we became portrayed in media. but lately i've seen gay tv/movie storylines though represent gay men as 'masculine', not just 'effeminate' so it's nice to see gay people portrayed not just one way.

theres nothing wrong though with being 'effeminate' as a gay man, because everyone is born different, and just because a man is like that doesn't mean he's weak or afraid of conflict, so i think that's where the negative stereotype comes in- that gay men are weak; not that some are effeminate.

I agree and disagree on many points to this argument.

If you were a straight person and someone mentioned the word 'gay', what would you immediately think? what image would you associate with that word?

Unfortunately for many the immediate image is the cliche and although there is nothing wrong with being flamboyant or weak in some respects it does not reflect the entire population...not everyone who is gay is what is protrayed countless times in the media.

This can be reflected into races and nationalities for example not every Australian is a beer swilling, mouth breather who speaks in the slow drawl that some people call the 'Australian accent'. Who says what is Gay and what is not?... what is Jewish or german or Australian?

If we are to be 'receptive' and 'acceptant' it is essential that we don't follow or take seriously the endless clishes and stereotypical portrayals done by countless media sources.
If that makes any sense

[otc877]

I am a gay man who is still very much in the closet. When I look around me and see these socially accepted, media-created depictions of gay men, I have no desire to join their ranks. I see shallow, ridiculous people that are nothing like me. I am not effeminate. I am not a "drama queen." I am not a sex addict. I am a gay, strong, and intelligent person that has a lot more depth and value than how the popular media portrays me.

Yes! I am so glad that there's somebody who feels the same way.

The biggest hindrance in coming out is the stereotypes, for me. I am afraid of society labeling and dismissing me as another stereotypical gay man who is campy, effeminate, obnoxious, and promiscuous.

I am none.

My sexuality DOES NOT define me. There is so much more to me than my sexuality, and I feel that by coming out society expects me to conform to the stereotypes and give up my identity, becoming yet another stereotype.

It's gotten to a point to where the media is no longer acting as a helpful catalyst to homosexual awareness, but rather a catalyst to homophobia. The media does not portray gays as normal people functioning as just that. Instead they publicize Chris Crocker and the like. I say that this promotes homophobia, because it doesn't do the community justice in representation. Not every gay individual is like that, I'd be willing to say that most are not.

To me, it is the same concept of showing only thugs in black people. The majority of blacks are not gangster, however the stereotypical black man is angry and violent. Media's over portrayal of effeminate gays and butchy lesbians are not counterbalanced by those who do not fit the stereotypes.

I think you'll (NobodyKnows) agree with what this man is saying. He brings up some great points.

+ YouTube Video

[TyraBanksIsFierce]

Wait, what?

Will Smith is gay??

Were talking about the black guy off Men in Black?

[joeyconnick]

Originally Posted by NobodyKnows

I am in no way, shape, or form trying to insult effeminate gay people. I just think its kind or ridiculous that that's the general concept for what it means to be homosexual. Never does the media talk about our struggle or the tremendous courage it takes to come out and the extreme adversity we face as a result of it, yet it goes on ad nauseum about how all gays have an incessant shopping addiction and are all incredibly emotionally fragile.

That's not true. Those stories are harder to find but they are out there. The vast majority of coverage tends to be hung up on stereotypes but that doesn't mean all coverage is monolithically similar.

Originally Posted by NobodyKnows

I'm sick of being portrayed so one-dimensionally. It's because of these stereotypes that we're systematically discriminated against in the work place and in schools. A respectable person can be described as strong and ambitious, laden with concrete convictions. These stereotypes of gay people only serve to undermine and discredit the character of homosexuals.

Discrimination against gay people exists because society is inherently heterosexist (and sexist) and based on the notion that there are two genders, male and female, and that opposites attract. In order to confirm its heterosexist values, the system constantly produces the people who don't fit this cookie-cutter mould as "deviants" (or "queers" "fags" "gays" "homosexuals" "dykes" etc.) and, essentially, takes any non-conforming (especially in the case of gendered behaviour and presentation) traits a subset of them may possess and produces these particular qualities as "bad" "disgusting" "unnatural" "sick" "twisted" etc. That's why you think it's so awful for a woman to be "stripped of all her femininity." Not because femininity is so great but because if a woman isn't feminine (and a man isn't masculine) then they are essentially gender traitors/failures and that just won't do. A non-feminine woman isn't really a woman, just like a non-masculine (or emasculated) man isn't a "real man." Even though what's considered masculine and feminine has completely changed and shifted over time, which ought to signal to everyone that hey, maybe being a "real man" or a "real woman" isn't about conforming to some ridiculous set of ideals promulgated by a very self-interested power structure. Being a man today in North America is not at all the same thing as being a man 100 years ago and it's certainly not the same thing as being a man in, say, Niger or Zimbabwe or Papua New Guinea. So that means being a man (and likewise being a woman) is culturally and historically contingent, and that is a concept that freaks a hell of a lot of people out.

I mean seriously, haven't you ever asked yourself why it is that it's so much more acceptable for guys to be fucking each other up the ass if they just act butch? Trust me, they're still just as gay, those "straight-acting" gay guys who are getting plowed. Or sucking cock. If someone finds out about their activities, they're just as vulnerable to losing their jobs, their housing, their families, their friends, their children, their freedom (in some extreme cases) as the femmy gay boys. Homophobia doesn't care, ultimately, how much you like sports and work on cars. And it especially doesn't care how ambitious you are or how much conviction you have.

If you stay in the closet because of stereotypes, then essentially you're saying, no matter how much you claim your sexuality doesn't or shouldn't define you, that what other people might (not necessarily do, but just might) say and think about is what defines you. That you aren't strong enough and articulate enough and "you" enough to actually have an identity of your own. So in essence, you are exactly defined by your sexuality in that case. Except it's not YOUR sexuality anymore, it's whatever sexuality the homophobes want to paint it as. You are ceding to others the power to define yourself. You wear the label; the label does not and should not wear you. If it does, it's because you've failed, not because anyone else has. We're all responsible for portraying ourselves as accurately as possible. No one said it's easy; it's just part of living.

In summary, you've got it backwards: the discrimination is what leads to the stereotyping, not vice versa. Gay people are not stereotyped because of how we act or sound or look. We are stereotyped because of what we represent. Just like women and black people and anyone who isn't at the top of the heap. We are discriminated against and made abject because we are not heterosexual, just as women are discriminated against because they are not men and black people are discriminated against not because they're black but because they're NOT white. It's particularly obvious with racism because it's ANYONE who isn't white who is a target. Homosexuals threaten the system because our existence throws into question the "naturalness" of heterosexuality and, further, throws into question the whole fixed, "innate" nature of (hetero)sexuality. And let's not even stop to think about what kind of wrench bisexuality might throw into the works! The paradox is that heterosexuality requires homosexuality to work because it "needs" to have a villain to point to to bolster its claims to being so wonderful by saying, "This is the bad thing you must not be!"

So all in all, life is seriously fucked up. But the media and the stereotypes they are so fond of don't cause the fucked-upness, they simply reflect it.

Originally Posted by kramer362

i think a lot of stereotypes have some truth to them, which is why they become thought of as representing a population in the first place. i am guessing back in the day the 'masculine' gay guys stayed in the closet, because it wasn't as obvious as with 'effminate' gay men, so that's how we became portrayed in media. but lately i've seen gay tv/movie storylines though represent gay men as 'masculine', not just 'effeminate' so it's nice to see gay people portrayed not just one way.

theres nothing wrong though with being 'effeminate' as a gay man, because everyone is born different, and just because a man is like that doesn't mean he's weak or afraid of conflict, so i think that's where the negative stereotype comes in- that gay men are weak; not that some are effeminate.

I agree with that !
Straight acting gays are mostly just closeted ,and even out they dont show any diffrence from the hetros, so people only notice the feminen gays.

[Jim1454]

Along the same lines as what Joey has said...

What else does society have to go on BUT the exagerated stereotypes if people like you and I don't confront it. And how do we do that? By living our lives openly and honestly and SHOWING society that you can be a gay man and NOT exibit the characteristics that they thought we would. Does that make sense?

I'm not totally 'out' - yet. Because part of me says it's nobody's business but mine. But on the other hand, I likely am doing the gay community a dis-service by not coming out, because I think I'm a pretty good example of how 'normal' a person can be and still be gay. I'm a professional. I'm a dad. I'm an active member of my church. I'm a good friend and a solid employee. And I'm gay - but it doesn't make any difference in any of those areas.

I have a strong enough sense of who I am that I don't let my orientation define me.

Of course - that's now. I also (clearly) denied my orientation for 15 years. I avoided dealing with it until now - which allowed me to establish myself as a dad, employee, professional, etc. without my orientation coming into play. I'm not saying the road you have ahead of you is easy. It isn't. But that's what we're all HERE for - to help and support one another. Take strength from what you find here and other more positive and supportive places - and put less emphasis on what you are seeing on TV.

The other point I would make is - what part of society is accurately reflected in the media as it actually is?!?!? Try not to read too much into the way gay men and women are portrayed in the main stream media. Better quality depictions are just harder to come by - as is any higher quality production.

Are all garbage men as goofy and stupid as the guy in 'King of Queens'? Are all white business executives as ruthless (and have hair as bad as) Donald Trump? Are all Crime Scene Investigators in Miami as dramatic as Horatio Cane? Of course not.

[kramer362]

Originally Posted by Jim1454

Along the same lines as what Joey has said...

What else does society have to go on BUT the exagerated stereotypes if people like you and I don't confront it. And how do we do that? By living our lives openly and honestly and SHOWING society that you can be a gay man and NOT exibit the characteristics that they thought we would. Does that make sense?

I'm not totally 'out' - yet. Because part of me says it's nobody's business but mine. But on the other hand, I likely am doing the gay community a dis-service by not coming out, because I think I'm a pretty good example of how 'normal' a person can be and still be gay. I'm a professional. I'm a dad. I'm an active member of my church. I'm a good friend and a solid employee. And I'm gay - but it doesn't make any difference in any of those areas.

I have a strong enough sense of who I am that I don't let my orientation define me.

Of course - that's now. I also (clearly) denied my orientation for 15 years. I avoided dealing with it until now - which allowed me to establish myself as a dad, employee, professional, etc. without my orientation coming into play. I'm not saying the road you have ahead of you is easy. It isn't. But that's what we're all HERE for - to help and support one another. Take strength from what you find here and other more positive and supportive places - and put less emphasis on what you are seeing on TV.

The other point I would make is - what part of society is accurately reflected in the media as it actually is?!?!? Try not to read too much into the way gay men and women are portrayed in the main stream media. Better quality depictions are just harder to come by - as is any higher quality production.

Are all garbage men as goofy and stupid as the guy in 'King of Queens'? Are all white business executives as ruthless (and have hair as bad as) Donald Trump? Are all Crime Scene Investigators in Miami as dramatic as Horatio Cane? Of course not.

I definitely know what you mean by thinking you're doing a dis-service to the gay community by not coming out.

I am not out at all, but that's one of the appealing aspects of coming out I think, squashing people's (at least all the people i know and hang out with) perceptions of gay men. I am nothing like Jack from Will and Grace, for instance, and I'm glad just because it's not what most people would consider 'typical' of a gay man (even though I don't think the 'typical' representation is typical at all). However I don't for a second think that I'm better than a gay man that might display some of Jack's characteristics, or act stereotypical in any way, as long as that's who he truly is.

There tends to be at least SOME truth to most stereotypes, whether they're negative or positive, even though those stereotypes are almost always in the minority.

I know that much of the stereotypes on TV are just for comedy...They are not trying to portray how life really is. (sorry if I repeat anything from above) On one side it gives the homophobic members of society more ammunition to fire at us. On the other side it is at least homosexuality on TV (I recall the first gay kiss on network TV was on Will and Grace...I respect NBC for that). In my advertising class we had a great discussion on the gay undertones in commercials and recently (I can't remember the brand) a commercial to sell watches with men kissing. This is huge for the network commercial world. Then even more recently, there was the Levis commercial where the man pulls his jeans up and the city comes into his apartment and he leaves with the pretty woman in the phone booth...now the woman has been replaced with a really hot guy. So yeah in the sitcom world there are some crazy stereotypes but even I find myself chuckling at them. It is a start for such a recently homophobic world.