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The Gay Male of Then and Today?

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by kiltrout, Feb 21, 2013.

  1. kiltrout

    kiltrout Guest

    Last night, I just finished re-reading Edmund White's A Boy's Own Story and I was chatting with Edmund through email, and we got into a conversation about how the gay male image has changed vastly over the years. Back in the 50s, 60s, and some parts of the 70s, most gays were viewed as classy, more intellectual types one would often find in poetry salons or writing for the New Yorker. When people thought of gays they often thought of well groomed intellectuals like Truman Capote. Gay men mostly fitted into this culture. At some point in the 70s, and more so in the 80s, gay culture began to change. Gay men stopped being characterized as fine men with class, and were now being identified as more sleazy people. I'm guessing the AIDS epidemic has part in this. Yet again, in the 90s the gay body image began to change, and now most people conjure up images of the gay male as handsome, gym toned, and ready to party.

    What do you guys think? Do you prefer the gay male image of today over the one of the past? I just find it that being a gay male, in a way, has become tougher because the community has now set new standards, with beauty and how built you are playing a large role. If you don't meet these standards then you'll have a difficult time. Personally, I like the gay male image of the past, but only because I see myself fitting in better with it. I'm not handsome, so I like having my intellect valued high, and I would probably have an easier time finding people to interact with in a gay society modeled after the one from the past.

    Just a thought...
     
  2. TestingitOut

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    Um I love your class, I love your avatar, and I love that you were chatting with Edmund White... whaat?!

    I agree with you that the image of the gay man has changed over time. I think im more into the association of being gay with being talented, creative, intellectual. Its a better look than the glittered and oiled muscular chest of a (possibly diseased, and totally slutty) party boy..... I just mean, its a better stereotype to be associated with. So if one stereotype of gay man can be held above another, the older one is one I'd keep with.

    Rather, I'd like to see more diverse representations of gay men. Some of us are very classy and intellectual, some of us are very trashy and go-go dance at our local gay bars. But most of us are somewhere else on the spectrum. So the more representations there are, the more gays, and the rest of the world, will see that all the diversity that exists within straight humans exists within gay ones too.

    To risk making this a very long post that people will automatically decide not read, its also interesting to think about why and how that image changed. Do you think gay rights has lead to an increase of the public displays of gay sexuality? Men back then probably had to conduct most of their sexual activity in secret or at least quietly. So they were seen more in one aspect... like minus their sexual side. Now that we can show our sexuality in public, is it only the sexual side thats being seen?
    What do you think?
     
  3. Lexington

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    Also, straight people were more likely to go to "gay places" starting in the mid 70s - specifically discos, which used to mainly be the haven of gays. There they mainly saw us in "party mode".

    Lex
     
  4. kiltrout

    kiltrout Guest

    I personally think that as homosexuality becomes more and more accepting, public displays have increased, thus changing the image of a gay man. Today, a lot of gay men are too focused on being gay, making it a large part of their life, constantly trying to be the gym-toned "Chelsea Boy" Being gay shouldn't be something you should flaunt around and you certainly shouldn't base your life around it. Being gay should be a minor detail in someone's life. This is probably why I admire Gore Vidal and Michael Cunningham so much.
     
    #4 kiltrout, Feb 21, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 21, 2013
  5. Lexington

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    Being gay shouldn't be something you feel you HAVE to flaunt around. Just as I don't think being gay should be something you feel you HAVE to be silent about.

    Lex
     
  6. kiltrout

    kiltrout Guest

    I never said you should be silent about it, but people today focus to much on stuffing it in everyone's face. Maybe things will change when I'm completely out, but those are my thoughts as we speak...
     
  7. 4AllEternity

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    The reason for the change in image, is that there's always been some level of homophobia, which has been exacerbated by our different standards regarding sex. Nowadays, people of all sexualities tend to have a much more casual perspective in regards to sex, there's much more pre-marital sex, and people also talk about it much more openly. So in the 50's, people would really only see the non-sexual parts of a person's personality. Now it's much more difficult for people to ignore the idea that yes, gay people are out there banging each other just like heterosexual people are xD.

    The good thing is that people are slowly accepting the idea, and hence many people (at least in certain parts of the world) are much more accepting of homosexuality. Heck, there are a couple of openly gay guys at my school, and the occasional gossip is mostly harmless. They don't get hate from anyone.
     
  8. TestingitOut

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    I agree with this totally. I mean I love pride parades, I love my very flamboyant friends who dont care what people say or think, and I love seeing gay couples in public totally showing their love. I dont think gay sexuality should be hidden. What bothers me though, and it goes with straight people, not just gay, is when people base their personalities off their sexuality. Or make sex the most important aspect of who they are. Theres so much more to being a person than who you sleep with, and to put so much attention on that, to me, risks making it very hard for others to see what else it is you have to offer.
     
  9. kiltrout

    kiltrout Guest

    But do you think that gay male society has become so focused on sex that sex trumps other details beyond looks that make up a? I don't like to sound a conservative nut, but I think at times, sex has become too important and open in society.

    ---------- Post added 21st Feb 2013 at 05:43 PM ----------

    Though I think it's more commonly found in the gay male community because we are a smaller group, and not to embrace the stereotype, but most gay men are hunting for that "Chelsea Boy" The large focus on sex and physical beauty is just an aspect I dislike about society today. I know others might not feel this way.
     
  10. Alexander69

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    I don't see anything wrong with either to be honest. You know the good looking part beauty is in the eye of the beholder. One may think someone is attractive and another may not. That's life. The whole gym toned part I think that's over the top more because I can't gain muscle I'm just thin. But I think healthy looking is sexy some muscle doesn't hurt but I don't NEED abs and all that its to hard to maintain. But the whole ready to party that's crazy I use to be like That.... IN HIGH SCHOOL. To me people who party all the time are sort off trashy. (If they party to drink only) it they like to go have a good time ok that's cool I don't mind that but not the purpose to just get drunk.
     
  11. remainnameless

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    @Kiltrout

    I agree with absolutely all the points you have made. Sex HAS become far to glorified this generation, and there is far to much sexual pressure, including losing your virginity, deciding your sexuality, etc. I really think that being gay should just be a part of YOU, not something to cram in everyone elses faces and expect them accept it.

    I really like the older view held on gays, not the new, slutty one.

    ---------- Post added 21st Feb 2013 at 05:18 PM ----------

    And people will always have different views on gays, whether or not they are accurate.
     
  12. kiltrout

    kiltrout Guest

    I'm glad someone agrees :slight_smile:

    ---------- Post added 21st Feb 2013 at 07:12 PM ----------

    I mean, personally, I get kind of intimated by the gay male image of today as I don't fit in with it. So, sometimes I'm scared to interact with other gays because of how sex crazed and look focussed the community has become. Does the gay male community of the past still exist today? Is there still such a community made up of "classy gays"?
     
  13. Willjarvis

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    The classy, intellectual image existed because they were they were among the few who could get away with it openly (socially at least). I doubt most of the general public believed in it. The image passed when bourgeois people, popular celebrities and common people could be openly gay too. So while there are vulgar aspects of the gay male image today, I prefer what we have now.
     
  14. Minx

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    Maybe it's just me, but I think all men were more appealing then, regardless of orientation.

    The only thing marketed to us these days is "Guy/Girl who works out = Attractive" :dry:
     
  15. Lexington

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    So you ARE saying gays should be silent about it. Or at least, you feel there's a proper amount one should talk about it, or there's a proper attitude one should have about it.

    Pride parades are a common bone of contention here on EC. Every spring and summer, we'll see new threads being made about this topic. And the general thrust of the first posts usually is "I think Pride parades are a detriment to the cause. It's just a bunch of effeminate naked guys on floats, and I don't want anything to do with that. No wonder straight people hate us." To which I say, first off, if you think Pride parades are just naked guys on floats, quite simply, you've never been to one. I watch the Pride parade here every year, and there couldn't be more than 2-3% hot guys in states of provocative dress. (And never naked.) the rest are businessmen, volunteer groups, social clubs (like volleyball teams), church groups, and that's not counting the lesbian and trans groups. And as for that 3%, they're totally allowed to be there. When I fight for gay rights, I'm not fighting for the rights of "gays I approve of", or "gays that don't embarrass me". I'm fighting for gay rights, full stop. I want all gays to have the same freedoms as straights, and yes, that includes the freedom to be slutty and party if they so desire. :slight_smile:

    And the Pride parade is just the gay community in microcosm. Yes, more eyes are on the hot guys in Speedos. But there are plenty of Quentin Crisps there, too. And if there aren't, it's not like they're not welcome in the parade. Harvey Fierstein put it best - "If the Pride Parade doesn't look like you, it's not up to the parade to change to suit you. It's up to you o get IN the Parade so it DOES look more like you." The hot slutty guys aren't out there demanding everyone be like them. They're there fighting for everyone's right to party. And if your idea of partying is going to an art opening with a Hermann Hessa book under your arm, go on with your bad self. :slight_smile:

    Lex
     
  16. Incognito10

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    OP, I understand the point you are alluding to. I, too, used to be disappointed in the idea.

    I have had two realizations: 1). The media depictions are not accurate. Most gay people I know in "real life" are actually intellectual with advanced degrees and practice their own hobbies and interests. The media, to a greater extent nowadays, is focused on superficial portrayls of all people, homo or heterosexual. 2). There has been an increasing awareness and presence of gay people in all walks of life as it becomes more acceptable in society, worldwide. Fact is, homosexuality is not exlusive to the intellectuals. I think in the past (i.e. circa 1950s and before), it was only the "successful" gays who were confident enough to live openly and had more of a means to exercise control over their lives (i.e. living in urban areas that were more generally accepting, money to mingle with "rich" social circles). The common, "blue collar" gay individual was much more likely to just live in the closet than the intellectual due to the societal mores; thus, we have the a much more diverse and probably accurate portrayl of homosexual society today.

    Also, there are positive representations of gays in the media today...Anderson Cooper, Ian McKellan and others.
     
  17. kiltrout

    kiltrout Guest


    Valid point. I'm not out there in the gay community so I look at the community how it appears from afar and in the media.

    ---------- Post added 22nd Feb 2013 at 02:55 PM ----------

    I do like Hermann Hesse :wink:

    ---------- Post added 22nd Feb 2013 at 02:56 PM ----------

    I do like Hermann Hesse :wink:
     
  18. hello1992

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    I think that old image of gays only occurred because maybe only that type of class were so "culutred" that being open about being gay wouldnt have been a problem. Compare this to a a gay in a poor/rough area...

    Um, i think i probably fit into the intellectual gay, but you wont catch me wearing a turtle neck jumper! I am far from that old gay image you talk about, but i do sometimes imagine my life in the future and i do see myself being culture. I do take care of my appearance and so i like the fact that being fashionable isnt a taboo if you are gay (not that i am out of the closet).

    I think today more people, from a wider background, are open about being gay, and so of course that old age stereotype would diminish. As for sleazines, i don't know. Okay, sure people sometimes associate gay bars with rough anal sex in the toilets, but i wouldnt say it would be any different among straight couples anyway. Its just the fact that it is emphasized with gays because gays are seen as different from everyone else.

    Anyway, i think a lot of gays are still fashionable etc. Many at my uni do dress well. I prefer breaking down the stereotypes. Some of the gay stereotypes i hear just annoy me a bit..

    -by the way, from your profile pic, you do seem handsome.
     
  19. kiltrout

    kiltrout Guest

    Personally, I fall into the well dressed gay stereotype. Actually, one of my friends when I told her was like "You have too good of a fashion sense to be straight!" However, not all gay men fall into the stereotype.

    Are you sure you are looking at the right picture? The one when I write is David Bowie, but the one in my profile is me. Only the people on this forum, and my close friend call me handsome. Everyone else just calls me excessively classy :lol:
     
  20. mpac21

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    I think that with society becoming more gradually accepting of gay people, there is less of having to separate ourselves from the rest of society at all times (though sometimes it is good to meet like minded people of course) The lessening of the stigma of being gay has really changed gay society in general it seems. How it will continue to affect us and make us different from the 60's, 70's, etc and even the current day remains yet to be seen of course.

    In terms of what era of I would prefer so to say, I would say definitely that of the 60's and 70's where the "typical" gay community was not so much based on such superficial factors as it is today (In the mainstream Gay culture). Granted I was not alive back then, but based on what I've read, this is what I came to I suppose heh.. Though I do like to appreciate and take of my appearance, I would not say I fit into many stereotypes really to be honest....