I suppose I should start by saying that I don't actually have a point here. I'm just exploring certain aspects of life as a transgender person, and seeing if anyone else has any thoughts. 1. Language Much of the language used to describe transgender people annoys me. Particularly the terms MtF and FtM. They seem to imply that we'll forever be in a state of transition, that those of us who aren't fully transitioned are not yet male/female. It also seems to me that its an attempt (perhaps deliberate, perhaps unconscious) to create extra genders where none are necessary. I've noticed before that the only thing the subconscious mind of cisgendered society hates more that leaving one gender is being so presumptuous as to try and 'invade' another, and, for example, calling a trans woman 'MTF' instead of simply a woman, tries to avoid that, by implying that she isn't really a woman. I am a man, and so are others who identify as male under the trans umbrella. So call us men, or if you need to refer to men under the trans umbrella, say transgender men or trans men. Other terms that annoy me are things like 'female/male bodied men/women', 'natural men/women' and 'self identified men/women'. To me, at least, they suggests that we'll never achieve 'real' man/woman status. I also hate the term transsexual, but thats a little different. 2. Gender related science. Obviously, I have no problem with technology and science which allows us to transition, but I'm very wary of the kinds of studies that identify causes or affected regions of the brain, and stuff like that. That sort of thing could lead to people being required to 'prove' they have certain things before they can transition, like a part of the brain being a different size or something. Or worse, it could lead to cures. I don't think being a man or woman is something to be cured. I also have a problem with a seemingly massive number of cisgender people researching transpeople, research which will provide no benefits for me or any transperson, and which will only serve to get said researcher a friggin phd. I once had experience of this particular phenomenon. (before I start, I should mention that my family is under strict instructions not to mention my trans history to anyone, without my permission, and without any exceptions. this is perfectly clear to everyone, and no confusion is possible). My mother goes to church, and at church, she met a man researching transpeople and religion for his doctorate. She walks up to the man, tells him her son is transgender, and then tells me I have a discussion scheduled. The discussion was quickly aborted when it was discovered I was an atheist, but the whole thing just pissed me off. Apart from being outed without my permission or knowledge, I then had to relate my life experiences to this guy who had the presumption to assume he could understand the slightest thing about me, for the purpose of making him intellectually influential. It seems it is slightly similar to an obsession of a white person to survey black people, or men surveying women about women's oppression. I have no problem with people in the trans community collecting data about the trans community. Okay, I'm done now.
I'm kind of wary about those science too as some or maybe most, if not all of them do suffer from drawbacks such as age difference, time of hormone treatment, sample size, etc. I do know a book called 'delusions of gender' which takes an attempt to criticize those studies.
Yeah, the studies themselves are questionable, given how low the population of out and/or transitioned transpeople there are. But my issue with them is not bad science (not just bad science anyway), its the idea that we can reduce a very fundamental part of someone's identity to hormones or a weird brain part.
Why would a cure be a bad thing; Do you actually enjoy having dysphoria? I'd love to not be trans, i bet that most of the trans people that are murdered or commit suicide don't want to be trans. Fuck being trans because it sucks, if there was a pill or whatever to make me comfortable in my body then you can bet your ass I'd take it.
Oh yes, dysphoria sucks, but do you really think there can be a cure for gender? I'm guessing any attempt at curing would either be ridiculous amounts of whichever sex hormone is compatible with out assigned gender, or conversion camps like the have for gay people.
1) I hear you on the language issues, and I can understand why you'd be upset. This is not the first time I've heard of trans* folks having problems with this language, but I am not aware that all of them have the same objections to this language. The disagreement makes it hard for us to know how to respectfully address you folks, but in general, I try to use "man," "woman" or whatever non-binary word the person I'm talk about chooses to identify. I intuitively believe that FtM/MtF language is pretty marginalizing as well, but I'm not sure how to avoid it when I'm having a conversation with other cisgender people trying to get them to understand, have empathy, or simply tell them about triggering things... 2) I definitely agree on your concerns with the research too. As a multisexual, I feel gifted, and I feel that searching for causes will tend only to fuel the nature vs. nurture debate which both have bad possible (or probable) outcomes for us. It this goes down to innate neurological programming, then those with minority sexualities and gender variance are viewed as having disabilities, and maybe a cure is sought. If one cannot be found, then the queer or trans person is simply hobbled, and their preferences and expression "have to be tolerated since they can't help it." In other words, nothing about this debate transcends the basic premise of pathology. On the other hand, if it's nurture, or choice, then we can go back to morally condemning parents for raising queer or trans* children or queer/trans* folk themselves for "staying" that way. Researchers have to be careful that they are proceeding with humanistic aims and communicating good faith to their subjects. I think that researchers in the dominant group (cisgender, white, male, etc) can still do this kind of research, but they have to at least be trying to demonstrate the truth of hypotheses that will actually do something to help marginalized communities. I'm not saying, of course, that conclusions have to be cherry-picked. Nevertheless, the subject of research should be considered in the political climate. (What I'm thinking of, here, is "research" that was done about the supposed relation between race and IQ. There's no way not to be racist here, because either 1) the research will "show" that people of color are less intelligent than White people, or 2) the research will have done the trivial work of showing race and IQ have no relation whatsoever, but it still gives currency to the racist premises that made the research "interesting" in the first place.) As far as whether there ought to be a "cure" for dysphoria is something I'm not really qualified to discuss. I want to take your position that it's gender is not a pathology, but I understand that at the same time we have to adopt an unfortunate language to work within the health system as it is to try and increase trans* access to care. It's still fucked up...
Whilst dysphoria is absolutely AWFUL, the idea of being perfectly comfortable as a man unnerves me. I've gotten to a point where I'm really in tune with my gender and being a girl is really nice for me. I love my gender more than anything else about myself.
I despise the negative connotation that comes with the term 'transsexual' that's for sure, and I dislike the whole transman label. I just want to be seen as male, as a man, not some science experiment or held in regard that I'm not a "real" man hence the trans inclusion. It's like being subjected into a sub-species of human, and it makes me terribly uncomfortable, among with being researched extensively. I mean, I'm all for science and its advances, I'm very fortunate that I'm living in a time where the hormones and surgery I need are provided to me, but the research becomes extensive.. and especially the fact that research is condoned by cis-gendered people who have not the slightest clue of what gender dysphoria really feels like or try to assume our entire childhood and experiences related to our gender.. is very unnerving. The lack of understanding may lead to, what you have previously stated, "cures." It takes extensive research but to underline a cause related directly to hormones or a certain part of the brain is too limiting. I appreciate the work of Dean Space as a transgender man himself who focuses on trans* activism and rights, perhaps if there were trans researchers and scientists doing this research themselves, I would definitely comply to giving information rather than with a cis person who might be using our entire gender/transgenderism as his thesis study for his honors study. And sometimes data can be misinterpreted or changed for the sake of the researcher proctoring the entire study.
I very much disagree with the anti-science stances here. Personally, I'm interested in the truth, even if its hard to accept. Let's take an easy yet unrealistic hypothetical of the issue here as an analogy. Let's say that a scientist found some sort of simple gene that makes people trans. And lets say that based on a quite large amount of studies that all transgendered people have this gene, and by removing it somehow would make them comfortable with their biological sex. Sounds scary right? But why would that be an issue? That would simply be the truth of the matter. What you seem to be confusing here is science and ethics. Even if it were something that could be easily "fixed" that doesn't make it ok to do so and doesn't necessarily mean that it would be done. Science doesn't dictate what ethical choices should be made. It merely shows us the facts so we can see what choices we have. Your brain is what is really you not your body. Transgendered people aren't crazy or delusional. Changing the body isn't that big of a deal. If someone one day wanted an android body then I don't see how there would be any problem. If someone wants tattoos, piercings or some other body modification, we shouldn't really have any problem with it. Similarly, if someone wants to be the opposite sex there shouldn't be any issues. It's your body. Unlike the body though, doing something to the brain is a really big deal. Your brain makes up who you are. It would be just ethically wrong to change someone's gender, as it's such a fundamental part of who someone is. Take another analogy. There is nothing wrong with discovering things like nuclear power. The question in my mind isn't whether we should learn about these things but what we should do with the knowledge. Do we try to make more efficient and greener power plants or nuclear bombs? I feel this interview with Neil Degrasse Tyson really goes over this issue quite well. [YOUTUBE]aYGGQEHaRe0[/YOUTUBE]
I feel like the criticisms made here are not anti-science, and I think what you're saying here is a bit uncharitable. Scientific inquiry helps us to explain facts about nature, but people still use facts within their ethical mindsets, and the conglomeration of people's ethical mindsets creates a certain political climate. It is possible, in my opinion, for certain kinds of inquiry to be problematic given a political climate. I think it's also possible that research by marginalized people are maybe best done by said marginalized people themselves, because they know what knowledge is most important to them to develop. Some people are more motivated by advancing their careers than by the simple and pure act of inquiry itself. It's a simple epistemological problem. Some people are denied access to knowledge simply because of the body they occupy and the position they have in the society. Unless I become poor, I'm not really going to know about it beyond a superficial level. I'm never going to know what it's like to be a woman. Cisgender researchers are never going to know what it's like to be trans*. This certainly doesn't shut the door on people inquiring about each other and learning the facts of nature. Nor is it true that we will never know anything about one another if some of us are marginalizes and others are not. But it does mean that we need to be careful about how we are doing science. And I think all that's been happening here is that people have been critical about how people are doing the science.
1.) I agree 100% with the language. When I transition I'm completely dropping the Trans* label and simply going by woman. I'm working my tail off to fix natures mistake; so why should I be chained to a label I loathe for the rest of my life? There's nothing male about me. I never chose this wretched body. So I personally find it to be an insult when people refer to me as Male to Female. I'm a woman, period. If you need an extra label then I'm a transsexual woman. We don't reference a person born blind who had eye surgery "blind to sight" for the rest of their lives. I don't hear people calling others who are born missing a leg and wear an artifical one "crippled to walking". They're seen as normal, everyday people. Yet I'm supposed to be stuck to my disability for the rest of my life? I'm told that I'm not as desirable as a cisgendered woman because of my problems? I don't hear people say "I can't see myself dating a former wheelchair bound woman; they wouldn't know what it's like to really walk like the rest of us." or I wouldn't be able to date one because I can't see myself getting past the image them being in a wheelchair." As for right now I realize that I'm stuck with being proceived as a guy. When I told others I was a Transgender woman people would see me as A.) a Drag Queen, B.) Gender Fluid, or C.) Gender Queer. Whenever I stated that I was a woman people would almost always say "oh, so you're one of those transgenders" or "you can't be a woman, you're a guy *insert DER face here*. My current physical body makes people assume that I'm comfortable being seen/referenced as a guy in some capacity. When I heard that Transsexual was basically "girl brain in a guy body" I figured it was the best way to make myself stand out under the vast T umbrella. A lot of people have never heard the term Transsexual, so it gives me a chance to correct them and distinct myself from past Trans* experiences they had. Basically it's my way of making it clear to people that I will not be tolerated being treated as a male in any capacity. 2.) I feel that Trans* issues are going to be very low on the "list of problems" getting fix. Things like Cancer, Diabeties, and Aids affect way more people than Trans*. So scientiests are going to pour their efforts into something that everyone could get over something that a small group is born with. My expectation of something remotely helpful being found as an aid in my lifetime are nil. I'll help the researches to an extent, but I'm not holding onto hope for it. I'd like for them to find a way to put functioning female organs in me within my lifetime though. As for overly-curious cisgendered people; I'm sure my condition is fascinating. But I'm not open to being an excylopedia to everyone that's curious. Sometimes I just want to live my life as normal woman and not "a transgender woman". I'm sure it's the same way for people who are in a wheelchair get tired of hearing "what happened to your legs?" all the time. Sometimes I just want to say " could you please interact with me and not my defect?".
I have a question for transsexual, when you say you want to be addressed as the opposite sex? Do you mean only pronouns or asking them to behave as if you were the opposite sex toward you as if they support the assertion that there are psychological differences between males and females while asserting that they are to be treated differently? If it the second option, I can't really agree with the idea since I came from a place where we don't really see psychological differences between males and females and we behave to each other as we're just people, no differences other than physiology. Here, men and women acts the same way. As far as people's belief goes, if I am transsexual, I kind of would like others to use the other pronouns to address me, but I know that people will believe what they want, so if they think I'm a man in a dress, so be it. I gotten assertion of being gay as a heterosexual / asexual, but that doesn't bother me as they believe what they will and I can't do shit about it or won't do shit about it as long as they don't bother me.
Reptillian- Not sure if I know exacty what you mean but yeah, refer to trans* people as the sex we identify with. As far as psychological differences go- just treat us like you would your friends. If you pal around with your female friends and call them dude, don't suddenly backtrack and act all weird if you call your trans* lady friend 'dude' if you wouldn't correct yourself referring to a cis lady friend in the same way.
I don't want to be addressed as the opposite sex, I want to be addressed as a man. I also don't want to be described as transsexual. Obviously transgender people want to be referred to using the appropriate pronouns. And obviously people of different genders should be treated equally. I'm considerably more comfortable around those who support gender equality. Assuming the person in question views the genders to be equal, then it follows that they'd be treating me as they would any other man. However, if someone decided to repeatedly refer to me as 'dear', I would a) not be passing, which never happens b) not be being treated like any other man and c) be commenting on the obvious sexism. Furthermore, I don't think its entirely true to say that there is no psychological difference between men and women. Though there are obvious and numerous exceptions, there are trends towards certain qualities in certain genders. I'm glad you aren't affected by people's opinions regarding your sexuality. It should be noted that sexuality and gender are not the same thing, and at least in my opinion, gender is a more fundamental thing to most people's identity that their sexuality. Apart from anything else, there are real world concerns such as employment and relationships. There are personal concerns such as gender dysphoria. But more fundamentally, socially and physically being the gender that we are inside is a fundamental part of an enjoyable and fulfilling life, and without that, theres no real point to living at all. Your example of how others would view you if you were trans is interesting. Given that your gender identity is (presumably) male, I shouldn't think it would bother you too much to be seen as a man in a dress. Would you take the same position if everyone saw you as a woman?
We want to be addressed as the appropriate inner gender we say we are. And it's massively annoying to be seen as "a man in a dress". Trust me, you wouldn't be comfortable with it over time. Almost everyone talks/treats you differently in person than they would a cisgender. It gets old having guys treating me like I'm a "bro" and hearing "guy talk". Seriously, I hear things quite often that I know a straight guy wouldn't dare tell a cisgendered girl. Manners are also typically thrown out the window. Unless I can totally stealth a door will almost never be held open for me. And don't even get me started on using a public bathroom. That's a whole different headache to maneuver around. Being Trans* is one of those things that unless you've been there it's hard to really hard to comprehend just how miserable it can be. Being treated as if you're a guy pretending to be a girl gets nerve grating.
Well, studies aren't exactly answering this question because of flawed methodologies and there's conflicting results. To me, I don't really think there is a difference because I have studied men and women behavior for years and it looks like behavioral differences are to be attributed at a societal level than biological level meaning in a place where they support gender equality, it would be very difficult to spot out difference assuming there are. I have tried doing so, I don't see it. If everyone saw me as a woman right now without the trans condition, I still wouldn't be bothered if they don't cause fuss over me or causes problem. As long as their doing their work and getting on as they would while not being bothered by who I am, then no problem. Actually, you can address me as a black woman out of nowhere and I wouldn't care as long as you don't cause fuss. I just go through life as it is and just go by the motions not really caring what people think about me.
I dunno, I know I'd be kind of pissed if I spent all day trying to present myself a guy only for some jerk to think I was just a really, really stereotypical dyke. You don't know unless you're there. Gender and the expressions we assign to it are a societal construct but there are key physical differences between the sexes. If gender was purely based on an emotional level, there would be no reason why I couldn't currently label myself a man freely, without having to worry about being in a body that didn't match my ideas of how I'd want to get through life.
