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Is the Bible out of context?

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by BlueBear, May 7, 2013.

  1. BlueBear

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    I have been internally at war with the Bible and organized religion since by brother’s death of AIDS many years back. From the priest having to tiptoe through the bible to try to find something comforting to say, and my brother not being able to end his suffering early as even with being an atheist couldn't risk there being a God and offending him with suicide.

    On a forum I belong to the topic of Gay marriage verses gun rights came up with those trying to back their beliefs that gay marriage is wrong based on the bible. I put them to task in proving it and in my search found the bible is being considered in today’s context. I found the bible discussions on men being born a Eunuch on here and that Jesus may be referring to gay men. I think it means just what it says which is referring to non-sexual men but there is no such thing in regard to being in numbers large enough to be discussed by Jesus. My take on this is that the men from the time of the bible would not have been aware of people being born gay so all the content on gays is referring to heterosexual men having same sex partners. With the born a Eunuch showing Jesus was trying to use logic to undo the Old Testament’s flaws as seen in people to cast them out. If Jesus wasn't aware that people are born gay than what does that make of the gospels and does to the view he is the son of God. I do believe in God but the bible is still under consideration. I don’t think it should be ignored but just put in context of the beliefs of the time and that way it can evolve with new knowledge and stopped needlessly shamming people for who they are.
     
    #1 BlueBear, May 7, 2013
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  2. Duplexaxis

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    I'm not sure the bible can be put into context. People wrote down what allegedly happened and you believe it or you don't.

    Personally I think that organized religion is the greatest con of all time but if people find help and do great things in God's name then fabulous. It appears that members within the christian church pick and choose from the bible to suit their political agenda and therefore I would examine the bible thoroughly yourself and take others views on the matter with a very large pinch of salt.
     
  3. BlueBear

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    My brother David had taken pride in being an atheist but after losing the use of both legs and just wanting to end his life the bible prevented him from doing so. I was shocked at the power of the bible and also that David’s straight friends and coworkers never even acknowledge his death but were unaware of him being gay until his death. This was in 1995 and but changed me forever.
     
  4. Duplexaxis

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    I think there are two separate issues. Clearly religion and Christianity in particular are extremely powerful forces but there is a difference between their socio-political power, and their power over the introspective individual. Clearly this is a heartfelt issue for you and I'm truly sorry for what you had to go through. I'm afraid I don't quite understand your point however...
     
  5. TryingCynic

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    The moment an organization uses any method, via texts or otherwise, to force their beliefs on others, I lose respect.
    Context or not, it is not a religion individuals place to enforce their Allmighty's will.

    That said, I do believe that the modern christian bible(as I am assuming that is what we are discussing) is highly out of context. If you are a christian religious individual, I recommend picking up a Queen James Bible if you can.
    http://queenjamesbible.com/gay-bible/
    From their page:
     
  6. BlueBear

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    My point is the power of bible to shame people on level they don't even realize and if the bible is referring to those who were not born gay how does that change things. My brother up until accepting he was going to die soon could care less about the bible but it defined his death. From a gay priest who wasn't able to find a way to use the bible in a way to comfort my brothers love one's to extending the suffering of his final months. My brother came out of the closet to me in his late twenties and I believe his having to hide who he was growing up robbed us of a closer relationship. His need to constantly prove how masculine he was defined us.
     
    #6 BlueBear, May 7, 2013
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  7. Duplexaxis

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    I presume you live in America? Over here in the UK few people care about religion but certainly it has huge sway over peoples opinions as they found their lives upon the teachings set within the bible.

    As far as the bible referring to Eunuchs, I'm not sure it would change much. Certainly it is something to be brought up but the church does as it pleases to suit its agenda. For example Popes John XXIII, John Paul II and Benedict XVI took particular pains to rewrite Matthew 27 to disavow the Antisemitism and there are many more cases of such occurrences. Nothing will change until it is politically beneficial to the church for it to change.
     
  8. BlueBear

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    I am in the USA. I now understand what I am searching for and that is the subconscious effects of the bible which my brother illustrated in his not taking his own life. Even with my parents never mentioning the bible it feels like every word they spoke was and internally that is still defining me.

    If it came out that Jesus wasn't aware of people being born gay and it became common knowledge that people are than the bible would lose all power. Churches would just explain that people of that time were born non sexual.

    I can remember David looking in the bible to see the stature of those in the bible named David as if it had great meaning to him.
     
    #8 BlueBear, May 7, 2013
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  9. Valkyrimon

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    I think the Bible is almost completely lost in context. It was written by men (and only men) a long time ago. It's highly likely that they input their own thoughts and opinions into the book, regardless of what God truly thought on the matter. Furthermore, the Bible has gone through so many versions, translations and mistranslations that I find it difficult to consider it a reliable source. I do believe the gospels have truth in them. I believe in Jesus, by aside from that I find it dubious. Many people have said God told them to run for president. If they said that 2000 years ago and then wrote it down in a book, does it make it any more believable?

    As far as the eunuch thing goes, I've heard it applied to trans* people before, but the interpretation of gay men is a new one on me. I suppose it could be applied to the LGBT+ community as a whole, but personally, considering that eunuchs were castrated, it makes me think of an ancient form of gender reassignment surgery and the trans* analogy has some more subtance, but who knows? I suppose it'll be the day we die when we truly understand the world we live in.
     
  10. Ettina

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    The Bible is clearly out of context. The Old Testament was written within one political climate, the New Testament within another. Both are completely different from our political climate.

    I'd really like to know more about the history of those two eras than I do. But from what I know from researching the Roman Empire, it was definitely a different time. They could not have even imagined today's situation. With technology allowing us to transcend biological barriers, and the idea of sexual preferences as identities, and child protection laws, and globalization, and modern medicine...

    Human nature is the same. But we're being shaped and influenced in totally different ways, and we have issues to consider that never would have occurred to the ancient people.
     
  11. BlueBear

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    I find the men's club of the bible more proof of it’s true origin. The Eunuch quote from the gospels was when Jesus was trying to undo the flaws defined by the Old Testament and included injuries as flaws like someone could have after a car accident like a loss of a limb. The conservative Christians I debated on the other thread I mentioned would not admit Jesus teaching was undoing the old Testament.

    ---------- Post added 7th May 2013 at 02:49 PM ----------

    I am looking at how people are using the bible and the damage it causes. It’s not the book's fault.
    Of my gay friends and brother I notice that some hate the opposite sex other than that one parent while others don’t and the ones that hate the opposite sex have had heterosexual relationships. I wonder if that has an environmental influence or is just common to the people I have had the pleasure to know so far. I am straight but feel an internal sexual shame from my upbringing
     
  12. Devious Kitty

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    To really get an understanding of the different contexts in which the various different books of the Bible were written, you have to have a pretty good grasp on the history of the times and on historians views on the texts and its authors. How many people today do you think know this stuff, or even realize its out there? Probably about the same amount as the number of historians who study it. There are actually free courses on itunes and other online sources that one could watch that goes over this sort of stuff, so its not as if this information isn't available. (I could PM links to anyone interested. Just PM me about it.) Yet your typical Christian or preacher doesn't really know about it or just doesn't care. They only care about their own personal subjective and confirmation biased interpretation, and rather than being based on strange things like facts and history, they are based on personal feelings and the words of perceived "religious authorities." Really its a pretty big joke when people consider themselves more of a "true" Christian compared to what those other Christians out there believe. Forgive me for the rant. It just really bugs me.
     
  13. Zel

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    I don't know about the other bibles, but the Christian one was written hundreds of yrs after the fact. We can't even play the telephone game without the original phrase being changed a least a little. Imagine stories being told for hundreds of yrs before being written down. Even if they were the most honest people on Earth, those tales got changed, misinterpreted, backward, out of 'spirit' from what really happened.
     
  14. BlueBear

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    I hear that. I ran across a website that has conservative Christians compared to progressive ones and was surprised to see progressive is pretty much based on personal experience and current knowledge over the bible content.