The "Normal Homosexual"

And this is why I strongly dislike and feel very uncomfortable with the word "Assimilation." Someone always gets left behind. :eusa_naug

 

Yeah.

 

This reminds me of the documentary I saw at my LGBT center a few weeks ago, The Butch Factor, and I was a bit put off by some comments by one of the interviewees [is that a word?] who wrote a book called Androphilia not only putting down 'feminine' gay men/culture because he viewed it as dominating the community but seemed to suggest the only alternative was to be a 'masculine' one [or something to that effect, I believe.]

Feeling relatively neutral myself, as of now, of my own characteristics, I would think one of the strengths of the community should be an awareness of just how 'androgynous' many of us are in regard to our presentation, personality and/or interests in various ways and combinations. That while there are some who are genuinely very 'feminine' or 'masculine,' many of us fall somewhere in between. It's something that should be recognised, embraced and celebrated, not used to divide and discriminate others for.

 

A lot of it seems to have to do with the "ideal male" partner image that gays guys have in general. There definitively is a certain dislike of "Fem traits" that are against that "ideal" so to say.

I'm partly guilty of this as well. My ideal is definitively more a strong/dominant male, and although I do not dislike Fem gays, I have no attraction towards them beyond physical appearance. I've seen some really good looking Fem gays that I probably would've crushed on had I come out earlier, but it would never have been for a romantic relationship, our interests really didn't match.

 

You're right, it's not homosexuality in itself that's the problem, but the associations everyone seems to have with gay people. In the male world, at least, it seems being in any way like women is one of the biggest taboos, immediately lowering your 'status' to an inferior position. An example: in Mexico, there are millions of married men who sneak out to bars and clubs and night to meet up for, you guessed it, sex. They don't identify as 'gay', and in fact, only the ones who 'receive' take the worst of the insults. They are considered 'gay' and not 'real men'.

Feminine traits in general aren't given much importance in society, it seems, but when a male willingly chooses not to conform to a masculine mold, it's seen with anger and disgust. There was so much hostility from one guy at school when I turned down a girl I hardly knew, you had to wonder why he cared so much who I chose to date or not. 'Straight-acting'... what a ridiculous term. I wonder if lesbians refer to femmes as 'straight-acting', too?

Sheesh, even in the gay world, men are at each other's throats, checking to see that they live up to this masculine ideal, or be ostracized. It seems there are more women who are okay with guys who come off as slightly fem or androgynous, which is the opposite of what you'd expect. I've toyed with the idea of creating a fake account on one of those dating sites and posting 'NO MASCS' just to see what happens, and yeah, to show them that there are others who don't support their message.

Either way, maleness, masculinity, definitely seems to be put on the pedestal everywhere, it seems. I'm no feminist, but that's one general idea I've gotten from conversations with them on multiple blogs, forums, and sites.

 

Honestly I think we should all take a page from "Bear" culture. They seem to have it right in this aspect. Every time I see or read something on them, it never breaks down into Masc. vs. Fem. And there always seems to be a blended environment from what I've seen. I mean I don't know if every "Bear" is as open-minded but I will admit, if I ever happened to hear about a "Bear" event near me I would definitely check it out.

 

All I'm going to say us vent more often, because this was very interesting, and I'm sure you've got some more "insightful" material

 

Came across an article while I was searching for something I was curious about, and it sort of raised a few interesting points on gay stereotypes.

Tackling the humor of gay stereotyping online - Salon.com

I think Television in particular has had the effect of portraying the gay community as very "Fem"-like for quite a while, which, for the more "masc" part of the gay community, has simply resulted in them trying to distanced themselves as much as possible from this stereotype. That attempt of distancing themselves has, in turn, created a certain level of discrimination and dislike towards he "Fem" part of the gay community, which is still being portrayed today on TV (although not as much), whereas the other shows that do not focus on on "Fem" gays, typically show the gay community as a bunch of horny guys screwing anything that moves (Queer As Folks anybody?).

There's just so many weird stereotypes surrounding the gay community, it's not surprising to see a certain degree of resistance towards them. I think the few videos posted at the end of the article (Disappointed Gay Best Friend) pretty much sums up the contrast between what people believe to represent the gay community, and the actual reality of the gay community. Which isn't to say that Sassy Gay Friend don't exist, in fact, they very much do exist, but that that's not all there is to the gay community.

 

I don't like the idea of the "normal homosexual" since that would lead to assimilation and more people like homophobes can make more ridiculous stereotypes.

 

Why can't you be feminine and still be like everyone else? I don't get it. Unfortunately, some feeble-minded people confuse being feminine for being an idiot, since popular misconception marries these two concepts.

 

The idea of feminine meaning idiot is ridiculus, and implies that females are stupid, by the way. I have an IQ that is over 135 and I consider myself feminine, as well as enjoying high heels. The idea that being feminine means being stupid, or crazy, is horrible. The fact that we are being discriminated against by our very own community is much worse

 

If they were bothered by the stereotype to begin with, they probably would not have befriended or entered a relationship with a person meeting that stereotype. In other words, there's no relationship to end when there was none in the first place.

Because that portrayal is extended towards the entire community, when it is not factually true. When you ask someone what the first thing that comes to his mind when he thinks about a gay, and when he thinks about a lesbian are the exact 2 things you mentioned. This is how the gay community is perceived, and why many want to distance themselves from this. "GayBros" is yet another movement within the gay community that seeks to distance themselves from a particular set of stereotypes to better create a group that better fits their preference.

But an intelligent black or hispanic is not a stereotype. Portraying an intelligent character of any ethnicity is not an appeal to a stereotype. Portraying a gay character as the Sassy Gay Friend IS appealing to a stereotype, and that's where the negativity comes in.

Nothing to address here. This perception of man acting girly definition exists (wrongfully, but still).

Or a douchebag... according to your example we already know that he's feminine. Doesn't stop a feminine man with an attitude from being a prick.

 

I don't take issue with 'feminine' gay men or portrayal of them and their relationships in the media. Stereotypes can be amusing, but they can also be harmful when a person from x group is expected to fulfill them, more so when the stereotypes can be considered dangerous for whatever reason. Example, being Hispanic, I've often been accused of being a criminal or illegal immigrant... harmful stereotype.

The whole 'sassy' factor is something I'm not sure how I feel towards: on one hand, there are gay men who fill this stereotype, and it's even celebrated by some, however reading through results coming up after searching 'sexism in gay community', I'm not sure it's something entirely positive. When sassiness involves abusing others, it's harmful to emulate. The problem is this abusive behavior is often tolerated and even pardoned, even by the victims themselves, only because the perpetrator is a gay man. So this creates two major problems: it allows for unacceptable behavior to continue unquestioningly and really, by excusing it simply because the men are gay and 'can't help themselves', whereas a straight guy would get a punch to the face, you're holding them to lower standards, almost to that of children.

This is in addition to the pressure many young gay men with a weak sense of identity feel to adopt more stereotypical appearances and behavior just to feel included. When someone has to worry over not being 'gay enough', when they are obviously gay, we have a problem. It's a two-fold problem when members of both the straight and LGBT communities expect others to fit into this mold. The fact that terms like 'straight acting' only represent one type of heterosexual person doesn't do them any justice, either, since both communities are extremely diverse, certainly more than a handful of labels could ever hope to cover.

One of the reasons I liked QAF was that it showed men from very different backgrounds: rich and poor, young and old, masculine and feminine and in between. Never mind the lack of important colored, trans, or multisexual characters, which TLW did have. Then again, it seems every gay man on TLW was a druggie, perverted sleaze bag.

 

I think the stereotype "normal homosexual" is the really flamboyant guy (think Jasper from Family Guy), and for lesbians, people think that they're either the drop-dead gorgeous women you see in lesbian porn, or really fat with the short hair.

I'm not the stereotypical gay guy, and I'm not flamboyant at all. I don't have the long hair with a dyed stripe in it, I don't wear skinny jeans, and while my voice is higher than the average guy, it's not incredibly high like the stereotypical guy.

 

I think we both agree on the same thing.

My other post was mainly about what I think to be the cause that brought this "need" in the gay community to distinguish itself from feminine gays. The Sassy Gay Friend stereotype sort of became harmful to the gay community (and not just to gays, but also just fem males in general, regardless of orientation) because it was not representative, and for a movement seeking credibility and acceptance, that seems to be the direction they decided to go with (distinguish themselves from fem males).

It's sort of a weird adaptation, much like during the rise of the "Gay Virus" (AIDs) back in the 80s. Males started to turn themselves to muscle building more because being "fit" was perceived as being "Healthy".

I think a lot of the actions taken by LGBT movements have been highly influenced by the media, and brought various actions, good or bad, as a response to the typically negative coverage on the gay community.