I hope not to offend anyone and, to be honest, I would like to learn more about this topic straight from other people. It's all over the place so, please bear with me. Also, I posted here instead of "Sexual Orientation and Gender Identity Support" because it said, "If you are unsure of your sexual orientation or gender identity you can post for support and advice here," and I don't actually feel unsure about my orientation or identity and this thread topic is a bit broad. In a way, I feel "lucky" to be gay. What I mean is that, while being straight would have been easier than being gay, I feel that being cis-gendered (I believe I am using this term correctly since I've always felt that my gender and sex were male) is much easier than being transgendered because it is one less thing to "deal" with (as in, instead of dealing with sexuality alone, gender issues are more confusing and hard to deal with, especially at an early age). To be honest, while growing up I only thought that there were men who liked women (and vice versa) and gay men (like me). I didn't know about lesbians until high school and always thought that gay people were simply men who felt attractions for men. I didn't know about men who violated "society's" gender rules. From high school till college, terms such as transgender, transsexual, and cross-dresser, were all the same to me (one sociology course in college helped in learning about this topic). I will sheepishly admit that I did suffer from a bit of transphobia because in my immature mind, I could not figure out how someone would not feel as if their gender matched their sex, apart from those who suffer from a condition such as Klinefelter syndrome (XXY syndrome). It was just weird to me for someone to not conform to "societal standards" on gender. There is one incident that will always stick in my mind. I was in 10th grade and eating at Carl's Jr. and went to the bathroom. As I opened the door, I saw a person washing their hands who appeared to me to be a woman. I saw the person as soon as I opened the door and very awkwardly, while still holding the door, bent over backwards to check the gender sign of the bathroom to make sure I was in the right one. Unfortunately, the person saw me and said, "What's the matter?" To which I replied, thinking on feet, "I didn't see any urinals, so I wasn't sure if I was in the right bathroom." This was true because the urinals were on the same wall as the door so they weren't visible as you walked in. The person left, but I always felt ashamed of myself and thought I could have handled that situation better. [I didn't use gender-specific pronouns because I don't know the gender of said person; I also don't know if this is offensive, sorry if it is.] I now know that trans* people are just like anyone else, and are just one manifestation of the myriad of possibilities of the human sexuality spectrum. I may not understand such feelings (just like I will never understand what a guy sees in a girl or how a straight guy will never understand what I see in other guys), but I accept them. However, it feels that in our LGBT community, trans* people are marginalized and considered by some to be on the bottom of the LGBT "totem pole." This is all anecdotal because, apart from EC, I don't have any contact with this community. Regarding etiquette, I have a question. I always call everyone I meet that is not my friend "ma'am" or "sir." Is there a term I can use in a situation when meeting someone whose gender may be difficult to determine? Again, I profusely apologize if anything I said may have offended you. I really just want to learn more about this directly from other peoples' perspectives and opinions on trans issues, or how you would explain this topic in a nutshell. Any insight you may have on the issue is greatly appreciated.
You keep worrying about having offended us, but this post is very encouraging. You're looking for answers with a willingness to understand and that's excellent. I agree with several points you brought up. I personally feel that it'd be easier to be gay (not that I think gay people have it easy by any stretch) rather than trans and whilst I was poking around in denial, I always thought to myself "Just be gay. That'd be easier right?" I do feel somewhat ostracised within the LGBT+ community at times. EC on the whole is great (though there have been some unsavoury cases there. I think a number of people will remember the infamous post of "I didn't choose to be gay, but you chose to play dress up"), but there are times when I'll read an article and it'll be about LGBT rights and then use that term almost interchangeably with "the gay community". I believe that we should all be united in fighting for our rights together, but it does make me feel rather invisible at times. I know how you feel about accepting other minorities and such but not understanding them. I find it difficult to grasp how cisgender people feel about themselves in regards to their gender. It's almost as if I wouldn't know what to do with myself if I were suddenly cis. One thing I will correct you one is that trans* doesn't come under sexuality. It's more an identity than a sexual orientation... it's difficult to describe, I may not be the best person for this, durr. As for addressing people who look androgynous, it can be difficult. Generally, address them how they present themselves. It's a little scary because some cis girls who look androgynous could get annoyed (I've found in my own experience that cis guys don't mind getting mistaken for girls as much) and I suppose that if you're really unsure just ask. If that person is trans, then they probably won't mind explaining as if you ask in the right way (such as asking, "what gender do you identify as?") they'll see it as a sign of you wanting to respect and refer to them correctly. If the person is actually cis, then... I dunno. I suppose you could just refrain from using gendered terms when you're not sure. I hope my thoughts and opinions have been helpful and THANK YOU for taking an interest. It really makes us feel supported when cis people want to learn about us.
Thanks for your detailed response; it was very thorough and great . I just have a few questions for you or anyone else. When someone puts under gender for their EC profile "female (trans)," would that say that their sex is male but identify gender-wise as female? Do all people who identify as trans* wish for sex reassignment surgery or are many content with their birth sex? If you are born male, identify as female gender-wise, and feel romantically attracted to women, are you considered "straight" in the eyes of the law (as in, can marry everywhere the sex you are attracted) but gay in your own eyes? Does the trans* community suffer from unique legal challenges that are not covered under the banner of "gay rights?"
"Female (trans)" means as you suspected. I was assigned male at birth but identify as a girl. Not everyone goes for SRS. Many do, but it's far less common among trans men because there hasn't been as much effort put into that area yet. Just because someone opts out of these things, does not make them any less trans, however, and they should still be treated how they identify. A transwoman who is attracted to men is straight and a transman who is attracted to men is gay. Basically, the terms to be applied are on the gender people identify with. In terms of legal standing, I believe it varies from place to place. Here in the UK, after I get my gender marker changed legally, I will only be legally allowed to marry a man because gay marriage is illegal over here right now. Other places aren't respectful of someone's gender identity and I think some places don't allow trans people to marry at all. As for which places, I'm afraid I don't know.
Hey. Its nice to see someone with a legitimate interest in learning. In my male (trans) case, this is why I did it: I hate having to define my gender in terms of having been assigned female at birth. I particularly hate the term ftm. Its like saying that my gender is, and will always be, a process, rather than me just being male. I don't mind the term "trans man", but that still isn't my gender. I use the terms trans man and trans woman to refer to people when the fact that they are trans is relevant to the conversation, but it still isn't my gender. I am a man. However, I'm out as trans on this website, and I need a way to express that. So, my gender is male, with a trans history. Perhaps that is a little pedantic, but I don't think so. Language can be very important when it comes to rising above oppression, not just in trans people, but in all oppressed minorities. Not all trans people transition, and not all transitioned transpeople get surgery. Personally, I will get top surgery, but I'm not sure about bottom. Its not very good, and honestly I'm not to fussed about it. I will wait and see. That depends on where you live. In the UK, where I live, there is legal provision to change genders, something I will be doing in a few months time. Of course, in many places, there are no barriers to marriage anyway. Yeah, the trans community has loads of legal challenges. There is the ID documents problem, the legal gender problem, discrimination, protecting transpeople from disclosure, legal stuff about when we can get surgery etc. Thankfully, from my POV, I have full legal protection, but many don't. There is also no legal provision for transitioning to non-binary identities.
How much education do you want, Ticklish Fish? 'Cause if you've got some reading time, this thread from 2009 is very good. It's a question-and-answer thread that a transdude called Miles set up, which has in its course explained a range of topics and dealt with someone who didn't think trans* people existed.
Good thread. However, this one has the benefit of being alive, so people can ask new questions on it.
Yeah, I agree. There are many resources out there, but sometimes it's best to restart the conversation and have a dialogue about it.
Exactly. And it's my belief that education is the key to understanding, and making the world a better place. ...Now, never mind that that sounded better in my head, but anywho... I think most of the above posters have given substantial answers to your questions, so let me know if you have any more that need asked- someone will get to it, if not me. :3
posting old threads don't hurt lol. I mean, I know EC has lots of threads and not everything is stickied or continuous (how old is EC again?)
Just a question littlememphis, or any US trans* person. If DOMA were to be repealed and gay marriage legalized in your particular state, are there still other legal issues that need to be hammered out? For instance, I know that sometimes gay rights overshadow LGBT rights in the sense that, as I learned, trans* isn't a sexual orientation, but an identity. As such, I know that some states have sexual orientation protection but not gender identity protection. In Texas, we don't have anti-discrimination protection for gays, but do have hate crime protection (at least on paper) for "sexual preference" but not "gender identity." So, would we have more to fight for the LGBT community even after the LGB part get what they want (marriage rights, anti-discrimination), and if so, could gender identity protections stall if the LGB part of the community stop pushing for rights for the trans* part of the community?
There is definitely a lot of work to be done when it comes to full LGBT (and especially trans*) acceptance, especially in the realm of law. Now, in my city I'm fortunate in that I have legal protection against gender identity discrimination. In other places, as you've mentioned, these protections don't exist and people are fired or outright not hired for being trans* (this burden is especially hard on transwomen, because of trans-misogyny). We have a multitude of issues, such as expanding trans* legal protections and ending discrimination, solving the problem of homeless LGBT youth, and, especially for trans* individuals, improving health care access and the many legal and insurance related hoops we have to jump through in order to transition. There's a lot to fight for and while I do believe that marriage equality will be part of what ultimately aids the transsexual cause because the LGBT community at large is gaining more and more mainstream visibility, I believe that marriage equality and the repeal of DOMA is a cause that often fails to acknowledge us T folk. The key is not to consider marriage equality the ultimate goal of the LGBT community but to consider it simply another step. I think the problem with many organizations such as the HRC (which I no longer support, due to their exclusion of the trans* community at large) and the LGB community at large is that often times, the T community is left in the dust. When marriage equality is the end goal, we favor the privileged members of the LGB community, as opposed to using it as just another step for full LGBT acceptance and tolerance.
Thanks again. I didn't realize that HRC was this biased to the T in LGBT. It did open up my eyes to this. I just read an article on Huffington Post about a federal employee non-discrimination bill HRC supported that didn't have gender identity protections. The article stated: It's sad how those who would be considered a minority of a minority (trans*) get orphaned by organizations whose purpose is to defend the rights of all LGBT members.
It is. Too often the T is ignored in favor of "gender conforming" individuals. Now the ENDA bill, last I heard, at least includes protections for gender identity, which will definitely work out in everyone's favor should Congress pass it. But even that, should it pass, won't be enough. It'll be up to us, especially the larger LGBT community at large, to make up for the rest.
I feel horrible for trans* Americans and how far behind government and state laws are in terms of transgender and non-binary gender rights. Australia is by no means perfect, but fortunately enough I live in a very progressive city and LGBT activism is huge. Last year, a passport policy came into place in which those whom identify as trans* (or intersex) can obtain passports with their gender listed as "X". New South Wales (territory/state in which Sydney is located) just overturned a ruling that everyone must be registered as a man or a woman with the registry of births, and recognises gender X, which is a huge feat for Australian congress. Knowing how active Melbourne (in the state of Victoria) is, the new ruling could have legal implications here I would think in some short time, and eventually across all of OZ. As for protection laws in my territory: Equal Opportunity Legislation I can say from my experience, I've been treated with nothing but respect from my coworkers and my work regardless of being an open ("mixed" - though ethnicity/race hasn't been much an issue in my case) transgender male. I'm extremely privileged in terms of respect and I'm very lucky to have not had to deal with any sort of discrimination in my workplace. When it comes to school (and as a 17 year old, year 12), the oppression and trans*phobia I deal with comes from there. I've been prohibited from using either gender bathroom and have been specifically told to use the handicapped one or the girls' bathroom if the handicapped one is occupied. My rights and safety have been stripped from me and I can say that I don't feel very safe at school most of the time. Teenagers are pricks, and there's no community for me here, so I have to wait until I graduate in order to get away from the daily harassment as unfortunate as that is. I'm unfortunately a fairly rare case considering that at my age, not many people have transitioned or are currently going through the process, yet alone open about it. I might even be revolutionary to this city one day, if I let myself be heard. Also, props to you for creating this thread and being open-minded about the "T" in LGBTQ+. Better to educate yourself rather than assume, and the more activism, the better. I think I've covered quite a bit when it comes to trans* rights and laws in Australia (specifically Victoria), and even I'm lacking some information myself when it comes to rights in other states. I also like gaining knowledge about rights over in America (and the UK and other countries) with each input, so, again, thanks for creating this thread.
Thanks for your reply. It's funny how America sees itself as the bastion of human rights and yet it lags behind other countries. Heck, Australia gave women the right to vote before America did. I'm sorry to hear about the issues you face at school and am glad you're almost out .
I found this article a while ago, and it was really interesting to read about the full history of the split between gay and trans in the HRC and other political groups. TransGriot: Why The Transgender Community Hates HRC Repeatedly blocking transgender inclusion in ENDA and Hate crime laws to make "normal" gay people seem more mainstream is especially bad, but the fact that queer rights has become entirely about marriage laws in the US is a symptom of the same desire to assimilate into straight standards instead of fight for non-conforming people, whether they're trans or not.
I am always open with people who ask nicely, and your approach is one of the nicest and most polite I have seen. I chose simply Female because that is how I see myself. I am technically trans. I am very much post-op. If I don't tell you about my past, chances are you'd never know. I've had one person in about five years tell me they supposedly already knew, when I had gotten close enough to this person that I told them (that is for another thread!). For me, surgery was a must. There was no way I was going to be happy unless I went all the way with it. Although I am currently legally married to a man and we are legally a heterosexual couple, I consider myself to be a lesbian. I'm not going to get into how I ended up married to a man, but I'm probably not going to be married much longer, as it is simply not working for us, for reasons that should be obvious and some others that probably aren't. Yes, trans people face many challenges that LGB people do not. Which bathroom to use, name changes, surgery, hormones, therapy, going through a second puberty, moods that are all over the place as hormones change us, sexual preferences that are over the place as hormones change us, and finally, being stigmatized in my opinion, much more than gay people are or ever have been.
