1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Religion and sexuality (nice thread)

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by Hexagon, Jun 4, 2013.

  1. Hexagon

    Full Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Messages:
    8,558
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Earth
    Basically, there have been a few issues between theists and atheists recently, and some people have left citing religion as being a problem. I thought I'd take this opportunity to ask a few (hopefully respectful) questions to the religious members so that I, and other atheists might better understand you.

    What does your religion say about homosexuality? How have to reconciled it to become content with both your sexuality/gender identity and faith? Have you ever experienced hostility from members of your religion because of your sexuality/gender identity?

    And atheists, have you faced hostility from religion because of your sexuality/gender identity? What happened?

    It is not my intention for this to become a debate, more a place where people can try and understand each other. Maybe it won't work, but meh.
     
  2. MixedNutz

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2012
    Messages:
    782
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    NJ
    When I was a Jehovah's Witnesses the view was 'being homosexual is ok, engaging in homosexual acts is forbidden and will be you excommunicated'.

    Being homosexual is ok, by ok it meant don't talk about it. Don't act anything other then a masculine man. If you do any of the above, you won't be excommunicated but you will be shunned and people will talk about you behind your back.

    The way I reconciled it was by leaving, quietly just fading away. I stopped attending for 1.5 years before anyone who I hadn't told outright noticed. I finally started telling a few old friends the reason why. As I thought most in my generation understood, and said they would always be there for me. A few cut more just do to me rejecting the faith. I know if I fully come out and word gets around I will be met with some hostility but the best thing I did was leave that life. I don't see, speak, or associate with anyone that would be hostile for me sexuality.

    The farther away from the religion I moved the more I truly believe organized religion is more of a man made money maker and way to control people. I still believe there is somewhat of a higher power out there, but I don't believe that he/she/it would hate, reject, or look down upon me because of something at is as much a part of me as my DNA is.
     
  3. FruitFly

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2013
    Messages:
    805
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    England
    Gender:
    Female
    Well, the overall religious stance is highly variable. While the more well known stance is that those who are gay are committing a sin I lean towards the section which believes human sexuality is a gift from God, and that many have interpreted scripture in such a way that reflects the societal prejudices of the time(s). I have never had to reconcile my thoughts on my sexuality and religion, only ever my thoughts on those who shared my faith and their attitudes towards people they viewed of as sinners. I can completely accept that some people believe that you should not act on your orientation if it goes against a particular interpretation of scripture, and I'll fight tooth and nail for their ability to state those beliefs; but if it turns into an active hate for people who do not believe that, and they actively try to control people outside of their faith (because, as people have stated in another thread, what you believe and the faith you select is a choice you make) then I'll fight tooth and nail to work towards an understanding that the faith of some should not dictate the lives of others.

    Have I experienced hostility? Some, mostly the older generation who to be fair were not deliberately hostile they were just ... they're just products of their time. Born in a time when you couldn't be openly gay, where there was a much stronger negative public opinion. I've never really had any of the drastically hostile reactions others have experienced, a handful who were "you're going to hell, you filthy sinner" types, but mostly people who cared and tried their best to help me the only way they knew how. I have experienced a lot of disagreement with younger people, but I'm happy with the disagreements. They believe what they believe, I believe what I believe, and if we can come to the conclusion that ultimately it's between ourselves and God then that's a good outcome.
     
  4. Spurned

    Spurned Guest

    As far as I'm aware, my religion says nothing about homosexuality and no one of my religion has said anything to/acted against me about it.
     
  5. theMaverick

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2012
    Messages:
    963
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    DFWTX
    I'm a Christian. I view this as being separate from the organized religion version of Christianity, as you'll notice I never refer to myself as any of the following : catholic, baptist, presbyterian, methodist, what have you...I believe that organized religion and faith are two different things, as organized religion is all about power, politics, and money, and yes, it's very off-putting.

    I subscribe to the philosophy (or theory, viewpoint, something, I don't know what the right word is) that the New Testament of the Bible is the "law" Christians should follow. The Old Testament was invalidated by Christ's crucifixion and resurrection, and that's why we can shave and eat pork, etc. I don't follow the laws of the Old Testament.

    The New Testament can be boiled down to one word : love.

    Many Christians live by John 3:16, and that is a perfect representation to what I speak of.

    “For God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life." - John 3:16, New Living Translation

    Jesus said nothing about sexuality. I believe, although I have not read into this much, that I have heard Paul saying some things about homosexuality later in the New Testament, but I bear this no thought. Christ said nothing about homosexuality, therefore it is my belief that homosexuality is not prohibited.

    I also believe that if homosexuality were prohibited and unnatural, that it would not occur in other species around the world, and that Jesus would have said something in the Bible.

    The powers that be in the modern day church are the ones who rail against homosexuality, and many of the verses they use come from the Old Testament. That being said, the churches that I've gone to, not one Pastor has spoken out against homosexuality.

    I have experienced hostility from other "Christians" regarding my sexuality, but that is their problem not mine, and this was only 1 person that has ever mentioned a problem with my sexuality, and I should note that this was a personal connection, not a leader of a church, and that everyone else I've ever spoken at length with about sexuality either sees no issue with it, or is at least respectful because while they may not fully support it, they don't see it as a choice.

    I have struggled in the past with the issues of sexuality vs. faith, but I have resolved them through study and prayer.

    I hope this adequately (and respectfully) answers your question.
     
  6. According to the Catholic Church:

    I don't agree with it though.

    I'm still figuring it out. :icon_redf But basically, I try to remember that even though we believe the Bible is inspired by God it was written by men. There weren't that many people back then, so the writers of the Bible probably wanted people to "be fruitful and multiply) if you know what I mean. So any sort of non-reproductive sex was condemned (i.e same-sex activities). But I don't think that applies to people 2,000 years later, especially when it comes overpopulation.!

    From Non-Catholic Christians, yes but from other Catholics, no. The Catholics I know are very liberal with an exception for the people in my Church

    I'm not an atheist but I bet they have.
     
    #6 wonderingdave01, Jun 4, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 4, 2013
  7. Tetraquark

    Tetraquark Guest

    I'm a lifelong atheist, so I never had to reconcile faith with my sexuality or gender identity.

    I've also never experienced hostility from religion as a result of these things; I have, however, gotten some as a result of my atheism. It's mostly just little things, like incredulity at my respect for life (I frequently rescue bugs from places where they might get hurt >.>) and misuse of the word "militant", but it is definitely there. I am always much more nervous about revealing my lack of faith than my sexuality.
     
  8. drwinchester

    drwinchester Guest

    I've faced little to no hostility due to my sexuality and gender identity- at least not directed towards me. I've seen it happen to others but I happened to have been raised in a little liberal/agnostic bubble.

    The only personal case for me was a Facebook friend. She was the sole homophobe out of all my FB friends, and very religious. Otherwise, she was a surprisingly nice person. During the whole Supreme Court marriage equality thing, it was nothing but microaggressions from her- sending me articles about ex-gay coverts who'd fond God and rejected homosexuality, pasting homophobic images and websites, telling me shit like "God loves you but not the sin." And etc.

    Somehow she ended up being the one to unfriend me.

    I have many Christian friends, family besides her. And I'm a bitter atheist but I believe as long as you believe in equality, love your neighbors, and as long as we avoid talking about religion/atheism and/or politics, we'll get on just fine.
     
  9. Hexagon

    Full Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Messages:
    8,558
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Earth
    My first memories, other than a couple of random holidays, are of religiously motivated self hatred. I thought I was wrong and evil, because I wasn't the way god wanted. I think I was about five. I left the church pretty quickly after learning to think for myself, but it wasn't because of my sexuality or gender identity. I did, however, after leaving, realise I was somewhat freed from the religiously motivated self-hatred. That actually did nothing to help my gender issues, but I did start exploring my sexuality.

    I haven't experienced real life hostility, because I don't move in many circles where fundamentalism is a problem. Well, religion isn't really that common at all. There was this one problem with a muslim, but it didn't last very long. Online, though, I've gotten some abuse, and I've gotten into some arguments.
     
  10. arturoenrico

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2012
    Messages:
    479
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    New York
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Some people
    I'm not out to most people so I never had the opportunity to be discriminated against by my religion. Nevertheless, I'm not religious. I have a problem understanding the concept of a God who should be worshipped, as I feel evil is and has been so rampant. I've read widely in history, and it would be a leap to say that religious leaders throughout history were actually good people. Gosh, people were burned at the stake by the Inquisition for wanting to read scripture in their own native language instead of Latin. If religion truly led people to be loving, compassionate, kind, generous, accepting, charitable, spiritual, then I would be all for it. I guess I'm doubtful. My connection to religion is primarily cultural, I like to celebrate holidays with family.
     
  11. Allecto

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2010
    Messages:
    298
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    The Berkshires
    Other than some guy telling me I was going to hell for being bisexual, I haven't really gotten any shit for being atheist or bisexual. Then again, my parents are nominal Christians and I live in a liberal area, sooooo....
     
  12. stuffiscool

    stuffiscool Guest

    Atheist. I haven't been harrassed by religious heterosexists; I just have to stay in the closet from them. One asked me if I was a lesbian because I "talk about sex a lot". .____.
     
  13. Candace

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2013
    Messages:
    3,819
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Southeastern U.S.
    Gender:
    Male
    I think that God loves everyone. "Jesus loves me this I KNOW. For the Bible tells me so". I don't think God is a bad thing, nor religion necessarily. Some people in organised religion though...they are the problem.
     
  14. FJ Cruiser

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2011
    Messages:
    1,004
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Deep in the Heart
    I grew up Southern Baptist, and though I'm pretty much universalist, I like Jesus and know the Bible well enough that I basically consider myself a Christian.

    The Bible mentions homosexuality very little (only in the Torrah and a couple of Paul's letters), and when the passages aren't cherry picked and are looked at in their original languages, it's pretty easy to see that they only reference homosexuality in the context of ritualistic fertility cults, which, gay sex or straight sex, had very messed up practices. The Judeo-Christian sexual puritanism is largely a reaction to this uninhibited carnage practiced by the Canaanites, Greeks, and Romans, so it makes sense that the idea of physical intimacy outside of procreation wasn't understood or embraced by the Judeo-Christian realm until recently. As a result, homosexuality and non-standard gender identities are even more foreign concepts, that when looked at by Biblical literalists through a "I'm afraid of what I don't know" lens, can be interpreted as sinful.

    Given the recent advances of LGBT rights and the religion's waining influence, fundies have turned it into a point of crusade. I can't say I've run into much homophobia because I'm generally more well-versed in apologetics of the fundamentalists than they are themselves, and it's easy to shut them up. That said, I've inadvertently surrounded myself with open-minded people, so I've faced very few to no problems.
     
  15. gravechild

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2013
    Messages:
    3,425
    Likes Received:
    110
    Gender:
    Androgyne
    Gender Pronoun:
    They
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    A few people
    I can't speak for Catholicism as a whole, but our church didn't really mention homosexuality, let alone speak out against it. It's sort of one of those taboo subjects that's tolerated in our culture but not really spoken of in public. Not until it interferes with a sons or daughters 'duty' to marry and have children does it become an issue.

    So, what Carmen tells Shane and her friends on TLW does hold some truth. Most Mexican-American Catholics would probably want their children to be happy first and foremost, and it wasn't until my own mother got involved with watching fundamentalist types on television did she start developing strong opposition to homosexuality.
     
  16. BradThePug

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2011
    Messages:
    6,573
    Likes Received:
    288
    Location:
    Ohio
    Gender:
    Male (trans*)
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    Some people
    I'm an atheist now. Before that, I was a member of a United Methodist Church.

    Ohh boy.. this is going to be somewhat long...

    My old church threw me out because I was (at the time) identifying as bisexual.

    At this point in my life, I had only come out to one friend who was very accepting. This happened during part of my senior year and the summer before I went off to my first year of college. (Actually, it was right about the time that I joined here.)

    One Sunday, I got sick of hearing people being homophobic. So, I went up during announcements and asked why people were so hateful towards LGBT people. Well, (to my surprise then) I got the normal "god hates gays" and "Soddom and Gahomra" excuses. Then somebody asked if I was a member of the LGBT community. I said that I was bi. I was then asked to leave. A few days later, I got a letter saying that I was "no longer welcome". Also, many of the members that I had as friends on facebook started to send me messages. Some were just pure harassment, others were encouraging me to "come back to god" by attending conversion therapy.

    At the time, that one one of the worst things that could've happened to me. Looking back, it's probably a good thing that that happened.

    Even though I was not allowed to attend church services anymore, I could still attend youth group. I continued to go until I went off to college. After that, I would show up when I was home for breaks (which was not much at all.) Well, on national coming out day last year, I decided to come out to him. It went just as bad as I expected (he didn't respond to me for a month... he also decided that it would be a great idea to harass me when he finally did start talking to me..) Some highlights of his harassment: He gave my number to a conversion therapy group, he put signs in my yard, he tried to contact my parents to inform them of my "immoral" behavior.. the list goes on and on...

    Also, hearing all of the homophobic stuff that the church said made me hate myself for a long, long time. It was only after I went to college that I began to actually began to feel good about myself.

    Long story short.. I'm glad I'm out of religion. Even though it messed me up pretty badly for a while, I understand that not all religious people are like the ones at my old church.

    When it comes to religious organizations, I agree 100% with what has been said here. The only thing that I don't agree with is that there is a higher power. If there is a higher power though, I don't see why it would hate LGBT people.
     
  17. Valkyrimon

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    889
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Wales, UK
    Gender:
    Female (trans*)
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Other
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    I believe in God. I don't follow the Bible, however, as it was written by a bunch of men 2000 years ago and that coupled with all the contradictions, makes me think most of the Bible is rubbish. I do believe in Jesus though. My vision of hell is also more of a purgatory kind of thing (if there even is a hell) and that everyone goes to heaven eventually. I believe in a truly loving God.

    I've been through many phases. I went through a bigoted christian phase around age 13-14. Looking back on it, it's probably because I was starting to realise things about myself I didn't want to be true. I then went through a phase of atheism 15-17. As I truly accepted myself as transgender, I actually became in touch with religion again. I felt that I had some kind of higher calling. I want to be an author and I feel that if I were successful enough, I could really make a difference and do something to change the world for the better. A bit ambitious, probably, but ah well. It's something I feel inspired to do. I see it as the meaning of my birth and that I've been set on this path by God. There is more or less proof in science for why people are LGBT and I believe that we were made that way. God created us that way as just another part of the diversity of existence, like people with different skin or hair colours.

    I haven't experienced any flack from religious fundamentalists yet, but I'm not largely out, so that's to be expected.
     
  18. girlunwound

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2013
    Messages:
    123
    Likes Received:
    0
    This is the condensed version of my background and then my thoughts on this topic. I mostly speak about Christianity because it is the religion I grew up with and have the most experience with:

    I was raised in the fundamentalist Christian church. My family is Catholic and Baptist. I grew up being taught that gay anything was pretty much the worst thing you could possibly be. LGBT people were dehumanized and demonized. I always knew I was different but any expression of that was quickly squashed hardcore. By hardcore I mean fear of getting the crap beaten out of me and having to spend weeks in my room alone, without even eating dinner with the rest of the family.

    It only got worse from there, as I was indoctrinated pretty heavily and continued on the road down the "straight and narrow" into my 20's. A serious life event and more than one church scandal finally woke me up and I finally kicked Christianity to the curb. I came out, lost most of my friends and my family and life changed drastically. Losing my so-called friends wasn't a big deal. I made new ones, and ones that were real, not the fake, "we're only your friends if you're living right" kind that I had always known. Losing family was very, very difficult for me, even though my family was really never very close. I finally was able to reconcile with most of my family last year, after years of alienation. It took two family members nearly dying of cancer to make that happen.

    I hated on Christianity for a long time because of all that, yet through all of it I still maintained an element of my own spiritiuality. I explored many religions and ultimately came to the conclusion that I don't really know anything for certain, but I know what I'd like to think is true. So I'm agnostic with my own little personal beliefs and I've been that way for a few years now.

    For a long time, as I said, I hated on Christianity. Hardcore hated on it. But then I started meeting people who were believers and they were cool. They made no demands, had no expectations, didn't hate on LGBT people and were accepting. I met more and more of them. Even my Mom's pastor is this way now. So I started hating on Christianity less and less and began to be able to separate the good from the bad.

    I am married to a militant atheist. Militant doesn't even begin to describe it. I have even been made fun of for my former belief, to the point where I was in tears. I keep my present agnosticism and personal belief subset to myself, let's put it that way. But being so close to a person who hates religion so much has given me a different perspective on things and one I'm glad I now have. I now see that when you fail to simply remove the bad from organized religion, you're throwing out everything that's good too. And there are good people who go to church, believe in Jesus, and all that. I don't have to believe all that stuff myself, but when I fail to let others believe what they wish to, I become as bad as the fundamentalists who beat people over the head with the Bible. I now have a name for Atheists who are like this (again, I am married to one): Fundamentalist Atheists. And I see them as caustic, hypocritical, harmful and full of themselves as the fundamentalist Christians who like to torment LGBT people.

    I think it is very important to not generalize and to sort out the good from the bad. This goes for anything. There are gay people who are assholes. Are all gay people assholes because there are a few who are? Of course not. There are Christians who are assholes. Are all Christians assholes because some of them are? Again, no.

    There are atheists who are utter and complete assholes. But again, not all of them are.

    A word of advice: Don't generalize and stereotype because it's the generalizing and stereotyping that gets us nowhere and it works both ways. Don't alienate the religious people who are willing to be your allies, because you may find that they are some of the best and most important allies in your life.
     
    #18 girlunwound, Jun 5, 2013
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2013