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I disagree with the term Feminist....

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by Epiphany101, Jun 12, 2013.

  1. Epiphany101

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    As titled, I don't agree with the title feminist. It seems to me like they're trying dominate men into submission. Can't they change their name to something more neutral, if what they're fighting for is equal rights? Equalist would work. =P
     
  2. Hexagon

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    Egalitarian. But I'm comfortable with the term feminist. LGBT activists are LGBT activists, and we aren't trying to dominate heterosexuals. Often, the name of a movement is named after the oppressed group, and women certainly still are oppressed.

    In the end though, its a label. We need labels, or else we wouldn't we able to think about things or express opinions. And feminist is a label people understand, so we use it.
     
  3. Epiphany101

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    You raise a good argument. I just feel that most feminists are stubborn, feeling they're superior to males in everything they do and I'm probably to justify this attitude in the way their name sounds to me.
     
  4. Hexagon

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    There are some feminists who seek to dominate men, true, but a majority want equality and freedom for everyone. And it should be noted that men can be feminists too.
     
  5. Epiphany101

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    I'm an equalist.
    I wish everyone was happy, even religion....I wish people would accept that people can have individual faith, without it controlling anyone (Not to say it doesn't).
    There seems to be a lot more feminists then Manists....I can understand why, but there don't seem to campaign rights for Men suffering from sexual abuse, Maternity Leave for fathers (which would help reduce Post-natal depression).

    I guess I loss the meaning during my rant, but at least if they were Equalists....they could fight for all inequalities within the human race, even those of the LGBT.
     
  6. biggayguy

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    A certain talk show host; who shall remain nameless, used the term "feminazi" to describe some feminist leaders. It does seem like they would like to oppress men in the same way they have been oppressed.
     
  7. Hexagon

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    Fathers can get paternity leave. Well, at least in my country. I was talking to an old teacher of mine, who basically took full government paid paternity leave instead of his wife because she had bonding issues relating to post natal depression and wanted to get back to work instead. Worked well, from what I hear.

    A feminist should care about the issues facing men as well as those facing women. A separate "masculinism" movement shouldn't be necessary. All of these issues affect us all in some way, and we'd do better to be united against them.

    They don't represent all feminists. That kind of feminism can be quite toxic, I agree.
     
    #7 Hexagon, Jun 12, 2013
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2013
  8. gibson234

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    The problem with some feminists and often some other minonity groups is the victimism. Just because your female doesn't mean you get nessacry harder then men even if on average they do. Some times I find that feminists think of all men as being stupid and sexists. Hence hate men and treat them like crap. I think that even though their are probably more issue gender wise for females there are still some male issues. And we should work together to get rid of gender roles instead of hearing about how all men are stupid and oppresive.
     
  9. gravechild

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    The problem with your argument is that feminists and branches of feminist beliefs are so vast and diverse that it's near impossible to say they all want one thing, besides equality with an emphasis on women.

    I just so happen to be a member of another forum that is *very* pro-feminist and LGBT-friendly, and I won't lie - the first few conversations involving the topic were like train collisions. You get a colored man and a group of feminist white women discussing oppression and inequality, with both sides largely unaware of the others plight, yet also taking their identity and values seriously, and sparks *will* fly.

    It's easy to let ourselves be tainted by the perceptions of a few bad apples, and let's face it: feminism has had quite a few outspoken apples. I think feminism addresses several relevant issues women face, issues that are easy to take for granted when you've lived your entire life as a man.

    Think of it this way: there wouldn't be a civil rights movement, a feminist movement, a gay movement, if things were perfectly okay with everyone. Unfortunately, they're not, even within 'progressive' groups, and this is why they're still needed.

    Go out and talk to a few members on EC who identify as feminist, check out a book, take a class, bookmark a site. You'll see that there's enough to keep you interested and occupied for a lifetime.

    ---------- Post added 12th Jun 2013 at 06:54 AM ----------

    Take a look at the queer community, hell, EC alone whenever a post mentioning 'vagina' appears and the over the top reactions from many of the gay male members. This is why feminism is still needed.
     
  10. Argentwing

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    [​IMG]

    :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes: It does have a sort of "superior" rather than "equal" sound to it, but any true feminist would tell you they strive for equality, and no more. It's all about fairness, and as soon as they try to get BETTER rights than men, they contradict their own philosophy.
     
    #10 Argentwing, Jun 12, 2013
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  11. MerBear

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    I'm a feminist but i dont classify myself as superior. I believe equal pay for women and I get a lot shit about it. a lot of my male friends don't support women's rights as often as they don't see it as a big issue. I don't scorn others if they have a different view but i will scorn someone if they judge me for supporting women's rights.
     
  12. Ettina

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    That does not sound like most feminists at all. A vocal minority, perhaps. But the majority of feminists (like for example my Mom) want the sexes to be equal, and that includes standing up for the rights of men as well.
     
  13. MerBear

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    Agree
     
  14. Owen

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    There is; it's called feminism. (Third-wave feminism, specifically, which is the wave we're in now.) Second-wave feminism, which ended around 1990, was very light on coverage of men's issues, which was one of the faults the third wave aimed to correct. In fact, a lot of the criticisms of feminism that have come up in this thread are true of second-wave feminism. Third-wave feminism was developed in a large part as a response to those criticisms, to try to become a more inclusive, constructive, and successful movement.

    Really, all of these "I don't like feminism because..." threads sound like they were written by someone who got their idea of feminism from hearsay and stereotypes, not from actual active feminists or any real contemporary feminist literature.

    Here's the thing about the name: men have problems, this is very true. All other things being equal, men are more likely to be convicted of a crime than women. Men often have the disadvantage in custody battles. Male survivers of sexual assault aren't taken seriously.

    These problems all come from the fact that men are the dominant sex in our society, that they have the power. Here's how the thinking goes: because men are powerful, they must be more dangerous, so they get convicted of crimes more easily. Because women have less power, they must be more nuturing, so they're favored in custody battles. Because men have power, there's no way one could fall victim to a sexual crime, so they aren't taken seriously.

    Let me be clear that it's not feminists saying that; it's society saying that. Feminists agree that those ideas are bullshit and they want to change them. Because here's the thing: women's problems (the glass ceiling, objectification, rape culture) and men's problems (mentioned above) are both caused by the fact that men hold power. Feminism was started with the goal of distributing that power more evenly, of elivating the feminine. Keeping the name "femnism" instead of using a name like "equalism" keeps the focus on the fact that men having more power is what's screwing over all of us.
     
  15. Femmeme

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    When I see one of these threads I always wonder what feminists the posters are talking about. Because of all the feminist groups and conferences I've been to I've never met the kind of feminist you're talking about. Now if I turn on Fox News or talk radio I hear all about this type of feminist, but I've never actually met one.

    I did meet a wimmins separatist once, but even she wasn't as bad a man hater as these feminists people talk about.
     
    #15 Femmeme, Jun 12, 2013
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  16. gordilocks

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    the arguments that go on over the word 'feminism' are ridiculous
    they want women's liberation and the end of misogyny - both of which will end discrimination against men - so feminism seems like the correct word to me
     
  17. Spatula

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    Eh they're actually not that hard to find on the internet if you look a bit. And there are notable ones that drew a lot of attention to themselves - Mary Daly, Valerie Solanas come to mind. Every positive movement dedicated to advancing human rights has always been used as a safe-haven for someone with horrible ideas. By the same token there were people fighting segregation and racial inequality in the 60s, but there were also black supremacists. And just because I'm a socialist doesn't mean I'll defend the policies of stalin, mao, pol pot, etc. Someone is always waiting in the shadows, ready to twist a paradigm shift to put themselves on top.

    But back to the subject of real feminism:

    You can say you're a proponent of gay rights and that doesn't mean you think heterosexuals shouldn't have rights. You can say you're a proponent of rights for african americans or latinos and that doesn't mean you think white people shouldn't have rights. The concept of framing civil rights movements as one or the other is a conservative tactic that is used to divide and conquer. Likewise you can say you're a feminist and that doesn't mean you think men shouldn't have rights either, or that that's the only aspect of civil rights you care about.

    The argument that the term feminist is still appropriate is straightforward and easy to make.

    We absolutely need feminism right now. There are parts of the world where women get blinded with acid by husbands that no longer want them. There are parts of the world where women have no civil liberties or agency in their lives. And even here, in what we laughably call the 'first world', 40 years after Roe v Wade, there are still people out there that want to take away women's reproductive rights. That this is even a subject up for discussion is disgusting.
     
    #17 Spatula, Jun 12, 2013
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  18. Owen is right on the money. Literally the entirety of that post is golden.

    But I'd also like to note in addition to all of that, it really annoys me that apparently in order for the women's issues that belong to feminism to be taken seriously it still has to be about men and men's issues. There are a lot of men's issues that do need to be address, and can be, through the aims of feminism. But why does feminism only have value to men if it's about men? Why aren't women's issues valuable all on their own?

    I don't hate men. Not even a little. But for the women who do hate men, it's the hate of the oppressed. It's a lot of times fear based as well.

    For the men who spew hate at women, it's just a day in the park of this patriarchal society. That's just 'normal' and saying anything about it makes me a 'feminazi'.

    Well fuck that.
     
  19. justjade

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    I thought the word "equalist" sounded familiar. :lol:

    But yeah, I think some feminists take themselves and their sex way too seriously. True, most of them really just want to be equal to men, and I'm all for that, but some of them believe that they should have the same rights but not the same responsibilities as men. For example, they believe that they should have the same pay and everything, but they don't think they should have to sign up for selective service like men do. I think everyone of age in America should have to. Women would have to be held to different standards than men body-wise because they're generally shorter and smaller than men, but that's to be expected.
     
  20. Pret Allez

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    Based on what specific examples that you can cite? I realize I'm inviting you to lie and make stuff up, but you're an honorable person, so you won't do that, right?

    I don't think that their objective is to dominate me, and I've studied feminism since 16.

    I just want to say that since heterosexism and sexism have the same root--in misogyny--I'm absolutely flabbergasted that not all gay and multisexual men are feminist.
     
    #20 Pret Allez, Jun 12, 2013
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