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Leaving my life here behind and going stealth

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by StefaniW, Jul 2, 2013.

  1. StefaniW

    StefaniW Guest

    Okaay, so this may be a bit long, but I am looking for opinions and am just sort of airing out the idea, sooo.

    I have been on HRT for 2 months now, and lately have been feeling this very intense desire to go stealth once I get deeper into my transition to just live my life as totally female and never tell anyone about being trans again.

    My plan is to wait it out here for a while while the hormones take effect, and work on going to cosmetology school and saving money, but as I am about to receive Italian citizenship (my appointment is in October) I would like to move to the UK, which will be a breeeze with EU citizenship (I can live and work there, easily), and they will pay for SRS after a while, so I don't need to think about the cost (which is a huge weight on my shoulders and has been leaving me desperately scrambling for ideas). In fact I believe the NHS will cover me even as a permanent resident, even before I have British citizenship, sooo.

    After this I would like to just cut off contact with everyone in my old life and (if I can, which I'm told I probably can) go 100% stealth. The idea of leaving soo many people behind just gives me a sinking feeling every time I think of it, but like at the same time it gives me a feeling of hope and like it is also really exciting. I can just go, and leave it all behind and go somewhere where I never have to worry about being accepted for who I am, cuz no one ever knows better. That would just be sooo...liberating!

    I know this sounds sellouty and like I am betraying the community and everything, but it is soo hard to live an out and proud life, and keep contact with your family, and just try and do it all and sync the past and the present, and like, I just don't think I will have what it takes.

    Any opinions on my idea??
     
  2. Hexagon

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    Well you already know my opinion on it, but yeah, go for it :slight_smile: And maybe I'll come visit you if you move here lol.
     
  3. StefaniW

    StefaniW Guest

    Lolz, YESH. you must <3

    I guess cuz it's like I was telling you yesterday. Why should I have to constantly justify my gender or who I am?? If no one knows they can't say anything....

    And like my identity is female first and foremost, and if the fact i am trans stands in the way of people viewing me that way, no matter how wrong it is or how ignorant on their part, why tell anyone?
     
    #3 StefaniW, Jul 2, 2013
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  4. BudderMC

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    I dunno, really. I've never given this much thought (but then again, I'm not trans*, so I don't have much reason to). And by that I mean when thinking about transitioning in general, my mind never really makes it to the part past "start taking hormones/have surgery/etc. so you can become your desired gender".

    I don't think that living "stealth" is necessarily abandoning the community or anything. From what I understand, being a trans* individual just means you seek to make your outward appearance match your inner gender (in better terms than that). And once you do that, what's the need to worry?

    On the other hand, if by living "stealth" you mean you're going to vehemently deny ever having once physically been a guy, then perhaps that's a little less cool. Not because you're abandoning the rest of the trans*/LGBTQ/whatever community, but because erasing your past in that sense almost sounds to me like a sense of shame.

    But then on the other other hand, gender dysphoria and whatnot means that even needing to remind yourself of said past could make it harder for you. You could argue that it really IS a shameful feeling.

    Like I said, I dunno. That's really not an easy question to answer, mostly because I don't think there is a right or wrong answer to it.
     
  5. Crow Crippler

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    Does it really matter if you used to be a different gender? I mean, you were born female (mentally) right? Aren't they assholes for needing to be told that you weren't always physically female?

    I am highly uneducated about this subject so I'm sorry if anyone has been offended by what I said.
     
  6. Sarcastic Luck

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    I'm on the fence. On one hand, I have the attitude of "Don't like what I say/do? Too damn bad", and I have too many good friends that I couldn't just dump like that. They might be online, but we still skype and such for games.

    But on the other hand, I'm a few websites and everyone thinks I'm a guy, which I'm quite happy with. However, when some topics come up, I can't say anything without the risk of outing myself.

    In the end, I guess it's what makes you happy and what you need to do. Perhaps my view point is because I'm still questioning so heavily.
     
  7. Hexagon

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    If asked if I was trans in non-LGBT circles, I would vehemently deny it. It hasn't actually happened, no one's had a reason to suspect anything, but I feel scared of the results. You only have to look at trans* day of remembrance to see the results of that, and I think even at best I would be ostracised.

    As far as I can tell, we erase our past for three reasons: To keep ourselves safe, because our past is painful, and because our past gets in the way of the way people see us and relate to us.

    It wasn't offensive in the slightest IMO, but perhaps a little nieve lol. The problems are not just to do with people discovering that we have a trans history, but to do with a mental image or whatever derived from our past. I think its this, more that actual transphobia, that causes most transpeople who cut off contact with their families to do so.

    To my mother, I am her daughter. Every time she says my name, she pauses, because she's correcting herself in her head. She says 'she' without realising it sometimes, and when she says 'he', I can hear that its forced. The same goes with my father. And I hate living with the knowledge that the people who know me from my past will never actually know me; they're clinging to the past I want to leave behind.

    I'm considering the same thing as Stefani, though I think I'll stay in England for the time being, since I get free surgery.
     
  8. StefaniW

    StefaniW Guest

    @Budder,

    No it isn't about shame at ALL for me, not even a little. I am totally and 100% OK with being trans and completely accept myself. But others do not, and that's just the very real fact of the matter. I don't want to have to feel like I need to constantly prove myself as female or worry about whether others are viewing me as female, I just want it to be a given.

    And like Hexagon pointed out, transphobia is very real and very much alive and TDOR is just evidence of that. I honestly am afraid when I read that site. Afraid of that happening to me and if I were stealth? That's not really a worry so much.

    But yeah like Hexagon is saying, the people from my past, they are never REALLY going to see me. Sure they may use the right name and pronouns (which a lot of them DON'T even do) but it will always be forced and I will always feel that, and I will always see how when they look at me they just see the person they created and they MADE me be. They will hold me back and keep me from moving on as the person I truly am.

    And to be honestly, my past up to this point really isn't worth remembering. I had umm a not great childhood and my parents, I mean they're not bad, it's just complicated.

    Actually the more and more I talk about this the more sense it makes. And btw Alex if I ever get to England we toootally SHOULD hang out cuz our circumstances sound very similar and plus you sound awesome :wink:
     
    #8 StefaniW, Jul 2, 2013
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  9. BudderMC

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    Gotcha, that makes total sense.

    What I'm left thinking is this though: part of the reason the LGBTQ- movement is growing is because more and more people are feeling capable of not hiding themselves anymore. With the trans* movement, if trans* people themselves are constantly "leaving" their community by foregoing their past, how do we hope to... destigmatize? the trans* community? Allies do help, but only go so far.

    Before this thread, I never gave much thought to "trans*" as anything more than a label or identity, similar to the LGB in LGBTQ. But if trans* people would prefer to leave that label behind after they finish transitioning (assuming they could pass well), does that no longer make trans* an identity for people who do intend on transitioning? I know it still applies to other people under the trans* umbrella who won't transition. But, the term trans* for transitioned people would make it nothing more than a sort of "stepping stone" between your biological and desired gender, wouldn't it? In which case, if someone chooses to not identify as trans* after transitioning, do they still identify as LGBTQ, or does that just make them an ally?

    Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course. I'm an advocate for people labelling themselves however they want to (if they so choose to); I guess I'm just thinking out loud because I never had that thought before.

    I feel like I'm phrasing this all horribly, so my apologies if I'm offending anyone - I certainly don't mean it that way.
     
  10. StefaniW

    StefaniW Guest

    @Budder,

    See that is my only worry. And I was discussing this with a girl who is considering doing what I am doing today. Like, we agreed trans visibility obviously does benefit the community incredibly, and it really DOES help for those who pass well as just normal girls to be out and proud, and it is just...a fantastic way to further the cause.

    But I feel like...we also agreed, and I know this sounds selfish, but we agreed that this is an individual choice. It isn't a cross someone should be forced to bear, cuz it does mean facing a life of hatred, and bigotry for results you probably won't even SEE in your own lifetime, instead of just living a normal life as your identified gender.

    But like for ME, that is where my biggest issue comes in. Like, does it make me a sellout for wanting to keep my trans status totally private from others, if disclosing it could benefit the community?? To me that is my biggest ethical dilemma here.
     
    #10 StefaniW, Jul 2, 2013
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  11. Sage

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    Personally, I think it's a spectacular idea, one that I may end up doing myself one day. I'm already moving away from all of my family (granted only a state away), I won't be keeping in contact with them much.

    I know how you feel. Moving somewhere to get away from your past, it's one of the best feelings in the world knowing that people can't hold anything against you anymore. You have my support if it means anything; abandon your shadows and bring forth your true self to the world!
     
  12. girlunwound

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    I'm already there, so I hear you loud and clear. I am out as a lesbian to pretty much everyone who knows me but trans is a different story. That information is a well-kept secret, at least as well-kept as I can keep it, as I do still associate with some old friends and family members. But I def don't volunteer that information and casual acquaintances, co-workers, clients, etc. have no need to know and they don't. If I could be completely and totally 100% "stealth" I definitely would, but that would mean having to cut off ties with my children and there's no way in hell that's gonna happen. So I am as stealth as I can be under the circumstances and I see absolutely nothing wrong with that at all. I really, as I have said before, don't even see myself as trans anymore. With my chromosomes I'm not even sure I was trans to begin with... And yes I have documentation on that (I've been called a fake by some in the trans community over that)

    So yeah, go for it and good luck on your new life. Personally I think anyone who transitions just so they can "stay trans" is selling themselves short, but that's just me.
     
  13. BudderMC

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    I know what you mean, to some minimal degree. Except basically everything you listed is toned down 100x because I'm gay and not trans*.

    I don't like calling myself "straight-acting", but I don't seem to ping people's gaydars very much. I could probably go on with people thinking I'm straight without saying anything, at least for the next few years until it's more expected that I be dating a girl or something.

    Like you said, maybe it is selfish to be "stealth". And I feel that sometimes. But on the other hand, I guess my choice is reversed in a way from yours - I'm not choosing whether to enter stealth mode, I'm choosing whether to leave it. And for me, I decide that I'm not going to go around waving rainbow flags and being a ridiculously stereotypical advocate of LGBTQ rights because that would be out of MY character. When the opportunity presents itself, I'll advocate in my own character. A big part of the whole "acceptance" thing (for all LGBTQ people) is getting to a point where you realize "this is me, and that's cool". It's about not fitting into other people's expectations.

    I know I said it in my first post, but I don't think there's a right or wrong answer to this. While I agree that it shouldn't be anyone's "cross to bear", one could also argue that if everyone bears it, the burden becomes lighter, no? (but again, that's easy for me to say from my position of relative comfort)

    I think for me though, if I didn't have the convenient position I'm already in, I'd probably own my identity a bit. While there are negative ramifications because of it and the positive effects may not be notable anytime soon, if it helps make progress for some other future 14-year-old in my shoes, then all the better. I'm not quite sure how that mentality ties into presenting as your desired self though, being "female" vs. "trans*".

    I guess I like to think that change has to start somewhere. And if someone has to do it, at least I know that if I'm the one taking action, I'm going to do it right :icon_wink
     
  14. Fugs

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    There's nothing wrong with wanting to go stealth. I'm more worried about you getting hurt. The whole "transsexual shock" thing that used to be admissible in court...
     
  15. Hexagon

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    Oh, and more pros for england, we also have decent hate crime and equality laws.
     
  16. Just Jess

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    Don't even worry about it Stefani. A lot of us are LGB anyway. And a lot of us that aren't, identified that way at one time when we were living as our former selves. So one way or the other the vast majority of us are in the community to stay.

    I think the thing that works most against us is that even if we change our physical sex, people don't really accept us as what we say we are. So in a way, if you got a boyfriend and a wonderful life in Europe, just proved to the world that us trans people are normal and even successful and awesome people, I think you'd be doing more for us.

    I mean yeah you'd be stealth in your own life, but you've already reached out to people on the internet. And those people just knowing that you're happy and you did it will have an easier time with our own transitions.

    I mean think way back the first time you saw someone's transition on youtube, that's the kind of stuff I'm talking about. I'm not saying you have to do anything like that. I'm just saying that you just being you is gonna do a lot more good than being trans forever.

    I mean otherwise we run into the other problem. This thought is getting to me so I know it'll probably get to other people, so I wanna warn you, but a lot of people still see us as cross dressers, because they just can't let go of our birth sex. I mean you and I could be in the stirrups in a maternity ward and some people just still wouldn't accept it :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

    People who rock the cross dressing and fight the whole binary thing, you are awesome people. Seriously I really admire how you can just be you. I'm just complaining about lack of acceptance. But I wanna throw that out there. You are never "just" a cross dresser to me anyway.

    But the other problem, is when we're trans forever, we never get away from the (ugh I am really not liking this one either but here goes) Jerry Springer crap. People just see us as our birth gender, or worse.

    So I mean the whole way to fight that in my opinion is to be a real woman until people have to see you as one.

    Like if there were 10 people you knew and 1 person from your former life came by and said "hi <boy name>", the other 10 people would be like "are you nuts?", and if they found out you were MAAB, those people would probably still accept you as a girl. Because I'm finding out it cuts both ways. Once someone sees you as one thing or the other, it's really hard to let go of. And they'd probably be friendlier to trans people after that.
     
  17. girlunwound

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    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    Lots and lots of wisdom there.
     
  18. Oddish

    Oddish Guest

    You know, this is a thought I've had many times before. I'm always in a state of uncertainty, whether or not I should leave my family behind and live stealth- either somewhere else in Australia or South America, or Europe, depending if I can get citizenship - wherever that is.

    I had a talk with my eldest brother on the day that I started T, and I asked him, "Do you view me as your brother?". He replied with, "No matter what you look like, you'll always be my sister to me. I support you in full, but I can never view you as my little brother, always my younger sister." I understand that he meant it with sincerity, and that he's okay with me being trans* (since he still lets me have contact with my nieces/that side of the fam), but his answer basically covered what all of my family thinks.

    Like what Hex mentioned, my family will never view me as completely male. Exactly how my brother said it. I'll always be his little sister, no matter how much he tries to coax himself into thinking otherwise. My mum and dad still see me as their daughter regardless of the pronouns they use, and how much they tell me that they view me as their son. It's all forced.

    Honestly, I don't think I can put up with it. I don't want my past to always be a part of me, and always feeling like I have to validate myself as a man. My family and childhood friends can't let go of my birth sex and will never view me as 100% male. Even if they are supportive, and I know some of them are, and they call me by the correct name and pronouns, there's always that subtle thing in the back of their head.. that subconscious, "this person is still female to me" thought. And this is because they knew me before I transitioned. I don't want to deal with that. I want to be seen as 100% male, and to never have my past intertwine with how others view me.


    Now, on the flip side.. I would like to be out and open to everyone. I'm pretty much dead set on going to University as an open transgender male, and doing public speaking and promoting activism. I want to be a part of the community so badly. I want my words to transcend towards younger and older trans* folk, especially the ones of colour (especially qtpocs, since activism and attention for us is extremely rare). I want my name to be known, to be known that I made a difference, and that I tried for the sake of all of us. There might be a little hispanic boy out there trapped in a female body and he doesn't even know yet, and when he discovers so, I want him to have somebody to look up to. Somebody who made it, and to give that boy hope. And that goes for any trans* person, really.

    But I think more about it, and I wonder.. do I always want the stigma attached to me? Or do I want to be a part of the community, and help things progress? Do I want to help people realise that trans* folk are individuals deserving of respect and rights? Yes. Yes, I do. But do I always want to be seen as a transman, and perhaps never be viewed as a man, and potentially be killed? No. But it's contradictory, because I can't have both. I can't be an activist if I don't admit to my trans* identity.

    And if it helps any, Edith, a transwoman who makes videos and blog entries related to trans* inquiries, made this video a while back relating to this topic (though she puts it in a perspective of a trans* person who cannot accept being trans* and wants to always be stealth/viewed as cis.)

    Again, it really depends solely on your thoughts, and what will make you happy. If you want to live stealth, then by all means, live stealth! There is no shame in that whatsoever. If you want to be part of activism, then by all means, do so! And as someone else already mentioned, you've already reached out to the community and have helped people, just by posting online. You've given young trans* folk hope, in hope that they'll be able to live happily one day.

    I know it's difficult, and I'm still stuck on what I want to do as well.
     
  19. StefaniW

    StefaniW Guest

    Hi, guys. Let me just say your responses have all been SO helpful. Really, thank you all SO much <3 you guys really are great and have helped me a lot.
     
  20. sguyc

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    Are you doing this because you think you will be happier or because of internalized transphobia and lack of acceptance for yourself? Some people can live the totally stealth life. For others it is very claustrophobic to never tell even their new close friends about their past. It feels like you are limiting yourself between being "out and proud" and being completely stealth? There is plenty of middle ground there. You should not feel forced to make the fact that you are trans part of your identity if you do not want to, but being completely stealth has its own trials I am sure. For ME (uneducated opinion because I haven't lived the situation yet) it makes more sense to be open with the people close to me. As for everyone else, they don't need to know. Granted there are a lot of great people in my life that I would never want to give up.

    ---------- Post added 3rd Jul 2013 at 12:47 AM ----------

    I would have to disagree that everyone going stealth helps the cause all that much. Being stealth implies that you are not ok with people knowing. Anything that threatens that will almost certainly be avoided, which includes advocating for trans issues and people. Granted, this is just what I have heard from people online. I am not implying you should come out to everyone or come out to friends right away because I agree they have to see you as your real gender first or else you will get "othered". One big reason that everyone associates trans with Jerry Springer is that all of the successful trans people are stealth to the vast majority of people around them. So there are not many examples of "normal" trans people to the average person.

    ---------- Post added 3rd Jul 2013 at 12:51 AM ----------

    Some people accept that their former life is apart of them. Not everyone gets SRS either. They must all be selling themselves short of the "best trans experience"/:dry: