Yet another rant... and six months after my first post, I'm exactly the same. I don't know how to begin... obviously I'm gay. Accepting it yet not accepting it. It's hell... my family would turn on me the second they knww so don't advise me to come out. I'm still in school and not going to move to my own place anytime soon. I hate what I've become... and not to sound like I'm about to kill myself, but suicide sounds so tempting sometimes when I'm hitting a low point like right now.. it's like I'm unconsciously living hell for a whle and then something wakes me up to see how bad this hell is and I get crazy. Permanent solution for a temporay problem? bullshit. My problem is permanent just like the 'solution'. I know I'll never be happy because I do, and I know that everyone would tell me that's not true but it is. I know myself.. Why the hell am I supposed to be in the poor 2% that won't have kids, won't have an easy life for sure? I know there are alternatives but I'm not interested. Why does everythign need to be so damn complicated?? And how come I'm 17 with zero real experience? I'm joining the army next year so I don't have too much time and if I go there with THIS state and shit happens, I cant imagine what the low point will be like. I was thinking about having a change for a week or two but what exactly? I havent even kissed. I could have kissed girls thousands of times but got those stupid 'you're lying to yourself' moments so I never did. As for boys well.. same story, my one experience sucked (solely met gay people), I have no options at the moment cause I'm not planning to meet anyone from the internet. And I was just thinking yesterday what exactly am I doing. Why even look for a guy? Sure I'd be giving up love if I marry a woman (though I could find a woman that's fun to live with) but I'd be giving up FAMILY if I went gay. I'm too tired and sick of this day so my explanation is probaly unclear. The worst part is that no one can even give me an unbiased advise. No one is gonna consider the going straight option. I'm not sure I'm considering it seriously myself. I just have too much on my head snd this time I'm not gonna 'forget about it and move on' because thats what I've been doing and look where it got me.
well army woo... if its what you really wanna do then do it it doesnt matter really basicly the army is no flamboiant not really anti gay... dont consider homosexuality a problem... i mean yes i would be the 1st in line if there were a way to change that would acualy work... but still about your family show face... thats what i do... i dont plan on telling them but if i do i will when i can support myself... when you go to college you can be more open (stay somewhere atleast 3 hours away for college) well even if you dont wanna be more open you can keep your eye out... sexual incounters arnt important... i mean yes having a kiss n such from a guy is nice but its not th eonly thing in life... suicide is not the answer... look i know exactly how low you have 2 be to pull the trigger... trust me i do... just... dont... even if the onyl reason you choose to live another day is so you can fuck someone over in the end or prove them wrong you will find another reason later on i promis... well i g2g message me if you need help with anything
Cloud, As regards your "accepting yet not accepting" yourself and your own sexuality - have you looked at this? http://emptyclosets.com/forum/showthread.php?t=930 If you haven't, please do so - I think it may help you understand - and understanding what is going on usually helps me deal with things in my life. I would suggest that you appear to be at stage 2 in your own "acceptance", so what you are saying is understandable - and certainly not unique. Now - to try and look at your current circumstances - and with the knowledge that I probably look at things from a very different perspective to yourself (I'm much older than you!) but I think there could be some positives in this. I'm assuming that the "joining the army" is likely national service - and that it is something that you are not really looking forward to? While I can understand that, the possible plus from it is that it (I assume) will get you away from a family situation that is making you unhappy and give you a taste of independence - and the chance to meet a host of new people - possibly make new friends and maybe (who knows) even some who are in a similar situation to yourself. If there isn't anything you can do about it (and if it is for a limited time - a year?) all you can really do is "roll with it" and try and take what you can from it to move forward. I don't suppose this is neccessarily going to put you in a better frame of mind about your situation - but you certainly aren't alone in your feelings. Please do take a look at the "Coming Out - Stages of Grief" link and see if it helps clarify things in your mind - I hope it does and I hope it helps a bit.
I don't think it's fair that a guy would marry a girl that he doesn't love. That guy wastes her time (and jeapardises her chances of finding the love of her life) and she will go through the hell of being in a loveless marriage. No girl deserves that. And the guy shouldn't settle for second best either. ie a loveless marriage. Don't settle for second best...
a homosexual man can marry a woman and it still be a good marraige... in the end isnt a true marraige about the kids and about the love of the family? not of the sex... yes sex would be needed... but you can work things out... if you MUST have... you can find a guy or whatever... YES I KNOW THIS WOULD BE WIERD... but if the right steps were taken it would work no matter how wierd it might be... i could go into that but it doesnt matter but remember... sex only lasts so long... its love that makes a marriage good... being in love with someone doesnt mean you have 2 lust for them... lust does not = love...
Yes, love is physical and emotional. I think a loveless marriage is a waste of the gay man's time, also the wife's. They both deserve to find their compatible, true lover...
I love this place Tribi thanks, that was a nice read. I think stage 4 describes me better. Just about every quote. And even if its wrong that it's like that for me, none of the quotes are false. They will remain true even if I accept myself and have a gay lifestyle. The army thing is for 3 years or more. It depends. You made a good point about me being free. It's not something I'm against doing or anything, but before I go somewhere for 3 years, I should take adventage of this year cause now I don't have to be totally committed to something and I'm really missing out. I'M 17! Not even a kiss. And like Jerri said, I know it's not all about a kiss. But it's about the things that follow... When I have some kind of purpose in life I'll have something to live for and then I'd do better generally. I actually really want a boyfriend. I tried to meet gay people but that ended up preety awful with people claiming they know me and blah bla blah. That's another story. It makes me bitter to think how I fell under the poor 2% of the world and see how my personality and self-esteem died.. I'm not acting insecure BUT my real mood is beginning to show and that's not good. I really can't believe my life is DESTINED to be something I don't want it to be. And on top of all that, the bible's claiming I'm going to burn in hell. Why can't I live quietly without so much drama at this age. This is supposed to be the best time, not the time when I need to analyze the saying "permanent solution to a tempory problem." I don't KNOW what I want to do, get a guy, girl, or none. That's what's driving me insane. It's been years like this and none of my posts here can make you see how frustrating it is. I do want a guy but right now there's no way to do it and maybe I could try with a girl.. I feel like I'm taking a step back by saying that but I never got that far the other way, did I? If by going straight I give up on love, then by going gay I'm giving up on so many other things... As for the "it's not nice to do that for a girl" it depends on how things even continue. Right now I'm not doing anything with any girl. I actually think right now that maybe I should do what makes me happy now (a guy) and that's what I hate - even after all this time I don't have a certain path.
Hiya Cloud, Just read the thread and to be honest I understand almost entirely where you're coming from. I'm 18 at the moment and have never been with another guy. I'm out to practically no one. I'm in no doubt that my family would disown me if they knew my sexuality and since i'm still living under their roof it's not something i'm in a rush to do. It sucks, it really does!!! I've had plenty of invitations from good looking fems but as you said the 'i'd be cheating myself' jean usually kicks in. And when it doesn't then I always regret leading myself and them on later. Suicide for me had been on my mind for years, sometimes I still think about the possibilities but partly it's through my optimism that tomorrow will be a better day and also partly due to the fact that I lack the balls to pull it off. I too have considered lying to myself and to others and going down the straight root but I believe that one day I will go a stray and that wouldn't be fair on my 'wife' and on my 'kids'. But like you I hope to join the army. Within a few years I will be in the army and to be honest although officially they have an equal opportunities approach to sexual orientation here in the UK I believe that when people find out it's likely to be a large problem. Remedy... unless I want to fight an upwards battle I could be a cold and bitter, single closetted homo. But i'm sure tomorrow will be a better day and that one day i'll meet someone who can love me as much as i'd love them and someone who can provide me with the moral support I need.
I always thought I had accepted myself from day one... but that was just not the case. I actually remember now that when I started realizing I was much more attracted to pictures of men than women, I remember telling myself that I might just like to look at pics of guys, but when it came to the real thing, I would like girls... after all, 90% of my friends were girls, haha Didn't take me long to realize what was really going on. Now, I'd never dream of leading a girl on. In fact, sometimes I think I show my un-attraction too much.
Cloud Nine 5 wrote: "And on top of all that, the bible's claiming I'm going to burn in hell." The pope says that homosexual orientation is not a sin, because it cant be a sin if you didn't willingly choose to be it.
Cloud, I'm glad you got something from the "5 stages". All I can really suggest from here is just to "take things as they come", try and make new friends, do the best to enjoy a new phase of your life - and take from it what you can. You might just find it gives you the confidence to become the person you really want to be, LOL. Far stranger things have happened... Good luck - and try to think positively about what the future holds...
Thanks a lot everyone. It's nice coming back to the thread and seeing your comments. This is gonna sound loser-ish but it's the only support I really have. I am repeating myself but anyway... I just don't see how I can be happy. Not anytime soon let alone the future. It's been going worse gradually since 13. What's really left to do? I don't want to talk about it or really explain this but anyway I'm also sick of how the emphasis is on what's wrong with me. So.. seriously why not actually be a HAPPY trainwreck and do something crazy and feel SOME meaning to this life? Why not randomly hook up with someone right now??
Hey Cloud, If you're gay, you're gay and you don't have to give up on anything that you want out of life. If you want to get married to a guy and have kids someday, that is still possible. You'll have to put in some effort (maybe a lot) to get what you want just like everyone else does. I'm still having a hard time with that concept since everything in life has come pretty easily for me thus far. I haven't had a free ride, but the usual progression from high school, to college, to job has pretty much been what I expected. I would like the coming out and finding a guy part to be as easy as getting good grades in high school was, but these things are not that easy for me. My life has pretty much been at a standstill for the past three years or so and it's getting really boring. It amazes (and slightly annoys) me when I read about guys who just happen to meet other gay guys randomly in their everyday lives. How is that possible to be at the grocery store picking out a box of cookies and a cute guy is there too and your eyes meet and you become instant best friends? You embrace each other and make out right there in aisle number 4 and everyone cheers, hooray!! Yea right! That would be pretty amazing, but it sounds more like a movie than reality. Supposedly this sort of thing actually happens, albeit without the instant kissing and cheering. Being gay does not condemn you to hell. Go to the Gay Chistian Network website and Godmademegay.com and read about the truth regarding this subject. Jesus offers salvation to all who believe in Him. Unfortunately there are many people who keep promoting the ignorant concept that being gay is a sin and this only fuels hatred toward us which is never a Christian thing to do.
Thanks. I know there are different interpretions but it clearly states that people who act on their homosexuality, their "blood shall be upon them." But that's just a side fact, not my main struggle... Yes, it's impossible for us to meet people randomly. so if i dont do anything nothing will come. So what are my options? Going to a gay club is a no because I've done that and it sucked. Meeting people online would require putting a pic in my profile and I won't feel comfortable putting my pic out for everyone to see that I'm gay. I did think of another idea though. Maybe I'll skip school one day, add a pic to my profile and talk to guys while it's morning and everyone's in school. Then I'll remove it. When you don't put a pic, you only get messages from weird people or people with no pics just like you. Now I know that I really need someone.. a gay guy like me. That would do me good RIGHT NOW so who cares about the future. If it was possible to do that now, I would go for it because I can't keep going like this and that's one thing that can give me something to go back too. I go to school, not looking too happy (which is a problem too cause people are getting the wrong impression... actually the right impression cause I was pretending last year and everything was fine), feel tired in the bus (even if I slept enough...), go home and just do anything to forget. Then I go to sleep without nothing to look forward to at all. That's not normal and watching a gay-themed movie just made me really want it. I haven't had any touch with a guy... I could've met a few people for sex (chat) but never did and now I actually consider it cause there's no other way for me to feel alive and I'm going crazy being numb. I also tried going to a gay club. I was embarassed with the straight people around, and me going to enter this gay club when I'm surrounded by annoying and feminine kids. I felt so lame and nerrvous and my confidence died. I was also embarassed that the guy from the bar I bought beer from saw me and I was one of them. Such a shitty feeling... so unnatural. I won't be able to out myself like that. I'm especially in a small place so there's a chance all those people know people who know my parents. Don't know what else to say. Hope you got it...
You could try putting your picture up during the day and see what happens. There may not be a lot of traffic that time of day, but who knows. I just hope if you meet up with a guy that he is honest and good to you, obviously. Could you respond to the profile of someone who you'd like to meet by emailing your picture to him and explain why your profile doesn't have a picture? Everything else on your profile would be truthful and sincere and then he could see your picture. Just a thought. I went to a gay bar one time since I was in the area and just said I had to do it. It was about 4 PM so the place was nearly empty. I guess that's why the parking was so easy to get! So I ordered a beer and I was nervous as hell, shaking a little I recall. The few people that were there must have been regulars so I'm sure I stuck out like a sore thumb. I wasn't interested in anyone, but I tried making small talk. Just as I gulped the last of my beer and was bolting for the door a good looking guy came in, but I was way too nervous, feeling like I was on the spot and all, so I continued out the door. Maybe it would have been better had it been busy, but I doubt it. I'm not good at looking calm when I'm nervous; you can spot it a mile away. I almost wonder if they thought I was straight and had lost a bet or something. At least the beer was good. I'm interested where you got that quote about their "blood shall be upon them." I'm not familiar with that one and would like to check it out. Thanks.
Oh yea, I also wanted to say that although you and I are at similar stages of coming out, at the same time we're in totally different stages of life. When I was in high school, relationships were not on my mind at all so I wasn't dealing with this back then. The only thing somewhat related is how bad I felt turning down the few girls who asked ME? to dances and avoiding ones that I knew liked me more than I liked them. I didn't know why at the time, but I just wasn't interested. I didn't want to hurt their feelings and didn't know how to explain it. I want to say just forget about it for now and concentrate on school and what you want to do after that. Consider yourself lucky that at least you have this venue to help you in some way. I don't mean to sound harsh, but rather hopefully take your mind off finding a guy right now since you're in a tough situation. It probably won't help, but if you can't come out until you're on your own, concentrate on other stuff and find a healthy way to get through it. Maybe if you can push through this now you will gain more strength and confidence to do anything you want later in life. (Ok, a little after-school special like, but I do mean well and want you to have hope for better things to come )
Thanks why wouldn't a guy be good for me now? I'm not going to find a husband, just someone who's like me. It's not like I'm a desperate kid needing someone to cling to. I just know that the one thing that could make this situation feel more natural and easy on me is to have someone like me. It's that simple... it's a totally different reality. Right now I'm trying to find anything that can be positive (that includes not thinking about the future that much like in this thread) and that can minimize a lot of feelings that it's "wrong" and how my family will hate me etc. I've been waiting for a long time and maybe I'm stronger but also really bitter and it's not worth it. I'm doing nothing with my life at all. The only things I did were negative. This is gonna sound cheesy but I need to find myself. I'm 17 and yet I'm not really anything. Not happy with being gay yet not trying hard to be straight. I did see someone cute at the club, like 24 or so, and he was looking a lot. I liked him but we didn't talk and I think he confused a guy I was walking with as my boyfriend cause that guy kept following me. Such a shame nothing happened. I was trying to get closer but didn't talk... it was awkward. The rest of the gays made me sick and I was nervous not only to be around people like that but to be around straight people (the guards, the guy that sold me beer next door) as a gay person. I didn't feel like I belonged there at all and I'm not going to a gay club anytime soon. Maybe that's a problem too. There's an option to send a picture without putting it in the profile but that's preety desperate to send someone your pic and 'hope' he replies. Usually you're supposed to get the messages and decide who's getting a reply. As for the quote... I am not religious but here. "'If a man lies with a male, as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
Hi Cloud, The 3 boyfriends I’ve really gotten close to (I love all 3 dearly:eusa_danc ) I all met at one of the local gay bars. None of them are regulars so maybe it was a fluke or divine intervention but it sure worked for me. Admittedly you have to first be comfortable in the environment and at ease with admitting you are gay to the general public by frequenting a gay bar. Our bars are easy because the owners and bartenders and customers are 98% gay or lesbian. Another thing that might help is to take a friend along and hang out until you become more comfortable with the atmosphere, someone you trust and will make you feel at ease and is gay friendly. A few straight people do enjoy going to gay bars. When I first started checking out the gay scene in my city last March, I was deathly afraid of the day when I would run into someone I knew, like from work. Sure enough it happened, a married judge who I never would have suspected as being gay. We’ve both kept our little secret when we meet at other social events so no problem. Since I’m out to my boss and all of my close friends, I no longer worry who I run into or whether I’m showing a guy my affection in public. Hey, it took me a year to get this far but it’s really cool to be in gay bars or discos and just be yourself. Some of the gay bars in my area really have the character of a meat market where everyone who comes in gets a close inspection. The idea is to come in early, get to know the bartender, and become an “inspector” instead of the fresh meat. Hell, they don’t bite. In the case of my 3 friends, one approached me and the other 2 were my initiative. Meeting these guys is undoubtedly my biggest accomplishment in the last year(!) . I also met a really cute straight guy who I hang with sometimes. See my homepage for some of the photos of my friends. I haven’t really explored chat rooms as an alternative so I can’t comment on that. Good luck!
That's exactly what I had in my mind when I got ready to go but it was different. I thought I would feel comfortable and like myself again but no such luck. I didn't enjoy at all. I was also at a kids gay club cause of my age so it wasn't ideal. I was so disappointed with everyone and myself. I do regret not talking to that guy. He was a guy and also much older so it was awkward and I couldn't say anything. I didn't even have a drink cause the guy that I entered the club with was such a good boy in the annoying way. Just like the rest of them. The part outside the club is the worst. People look down on gay people and when they're embarassing people get the wrong idea about you. It wasn't fun being outside around so many girly and weird guys when you have straight guys that look totally normal on the other side waiting to get in to a straight place. The risk of someone recognizing you, it just sucks. I'm not ready to go and show myself in a club BUT I am more than ready to start seeing guys. I think I waited long enough. Gay guys yougner than me are more complete with themselves, have their gay friends, high self esteem, and have had sex while I kept digging myself a hole.
