And Then It All Goes To Hell.....

I can only assume the counselor will want to persuade you that homosexuality is dangerous and changeable. You should already know the answer to that, but remember that you can only change behavior, not the person. There are gay people who spend most of their lives dating the opposite gender to try and mislead people or hide themselves, but that's hardly being "cured".

And I'm curious as to why your mother doesn't want you coming out. Is she embarrassed about having a gay kid? Is she concerned for your safety or something along those lines? If you don't already know, try and ask her why you're not supposed to share your own secrets with anyone.

 

I'm so sorry for you! (*hug*)

And I can't believe she says you can't come out to people! Why is this? Is she ashamed of what people might think?? But you know, even if you were to, as you were going to, come out to everyone else completely, you could do in such a way that you could just say that the rumour spread, and you did nothing... ie you can still come out, but say you didn't do it, but that the news just got around (not that I'm advising you to disobey your mum...).

But about your dad - maybe she's tired of feeling as though she's hiding it from him, or worried that he would be angry at her for not telling him. But does she not see that her need for your dad to know is the same need as you for everyone else to know??

I say come out to your dad, if you really believe that your mum will out you to him. You could wait for her to do it, but then you won't be there to have your say.

Internet restrictions? Does she know/suspect about EC? Does this mean you will not be on here as much?

Good luck (*hug*), and DO NOT let the Christian counsellor make you feel bad about yourself!!

 

"Oh Christ," he said ironically.

Of all the things you've said, this is the thing that I think would be best to avoid if at all possible. I'm not exactly sure how but it seems like a really unpleasant thing for you to have to go through.

Well not to put too fine a point on it but unless she's going to lock you in the basement, she can't really enforce this one. Similarly regarding the other restrictions you mentioned in your other thread regarding dating: hopefully it is not news to you that sometimes people date people their parents don't approve of, sometimes without their knowledge. I mean yes it would be nice if your parents welcomed your boyfriend with open arms but the fact that they don't sound like they will doesn't necessarily mean you can't have a boyfriend.

Which seems awfully weird given that she's supposedly afraid of him finding out and it causing problems in her marriage.

You're in Ft. Worth, which is a pretty major city, right? Get yourself to the nearest PFLAG chapter (www.pflag.org) and see if they can't help you out. Oh wait I found the Fort Worth one: http://webpages.charter.net/ransalih/ Or the nearest gay youth group. It seems to me you need some people on your side for support since your mum is obviously really struggling with it.

As for her smug comments regarding choice: if being gay is a choice, it's hardly a "lazy" or easy choice because why on Earth would you "choose" something that is obviously causing you such grief with your mother and such potential grief with your father. You are the total opposite of a coward and it was very wrong for her to say that you weren't being brave. You need to remind yourself that your mum is just a person like everyone else and like everyone else, she can be close-minded and unfair and lash out at the people she loves. I know you probably know that but sometimes it can be really hard to see our parents as people who are flawed and understand that they can be wrong because of course most people grow up thinking their parents are perfect and all-wise.

And ask her how old she was before she knew she was straight. And how many women she had to have sex with before she realised she wasn't a lesbian. Okay, maybe don't ask those questions because they're kinda cheeky but hopefully they will make you smile somewhat.

Also, does your mother have any relatives who are gay-positive who you could enlist in your cause?

Your main issue, which I'm not sure if you've realised, seems to be that you're progressing on a schedule that doesn't mesh with hers. That's probably why there's all this focus on when and if your father will be told. She's obviously freaking out because I don't know how else to explain her apparent fear of telling your father and then her threatening you with telling your father. I mean if she's afraid of what he will think or say, then why would she be willing to tell him to keep you in line? It's a little weird.

Anyway, you may want to put the issue aside for a bit, even though I know this all started because you wanted to come out to everyone at school. It is going to be really rough on you if you are dealing with potential crap at school and in conflict with your mother. When we're younger, being in conflict with our parents is pretty much the most stressful thing we can undergo. I'm not sure how much support you have from friends but I'm worried that if you continue to be actively at odds with your mum, you're going to be making your life a lot harder for yourself than it necessarily has to be. It's a lot easier to say, "Well FUCK YOU if you don't approve of my life!" to your parents when you're not living with them. I mean, even then, it's horrible to be in conflict with them but when they have the control over you that they do when you're 14... not fun.

You have been processing and working on being comfortable with your sexuality for a while now. Your mother, even if you told her a while ago, has likely tried to deny it and not think about it, so she is at a totally different stage of the process of trying to figure it out. Plus being a parent, she has a lot invested in you and if she's Christian to the point where she wants you to see a Christian counsellor about your sexuality, then she has expectations for you and of you that are being completely obliterated by your insistence that you're gay. And let's be honest: it's easier in a lot of ways for us to sort out our sexuality because we directly FEEL how attracted we are to guys or girls. Our parents are just being TOLD how we feel, and what we're telling them often goes against everything they've been raised to believe about how human feelings and relationships work.

Basically, it could be she just needs time. It's also possible she will continue to deny what's going on with you.

You could probably REALLY throw her for a loop if you said something along the lines of, "Mum, I know you must be really upset about me being gay because otherwise I'm sure you wouldn't have wanted to hurt me so badly by telling me you thought I was a coward when really talking to you about it is really scary for me. I want you to know I understand this isn't what you wanted or expected for me. I love you and I can see this has really upset you, so I'll go to the counsellor if that will make you happy but I know in my heart it's not going to make me any less gay."

Parents are usually pretty flummoxed when they realise their children are being more mature in a situation than they are. Sometimes it can kind of snap them back to a more reasonable place of interaction. At the very least, if you say something along the lines of the above, you have not only let her know (in as non-threatening way as possible) that you were pretty hurt by what she said but you have acknowledged that she is upset and shown you are willing to pay attention to her feelings.

Sometimes in order to deal with our parents, we have to avoid thinking of them as our parents, because we expect so much from our parents, some of it reasonable and some of it totally unreasonable. Much like, really, what they expect from us. If you try to put yourself in her shoes and see how isolated and alone she is probably feeling, you might be able to find a way to approach her that gets around the default parent/child conflict.

I know this is a lot to shoulder and I do get that it's not really something we should have to think about or deal with when we're as young as you are... in an ideal world our parents would just accept us no matter what and there would be no issues. But that would only work if they were ideal people and really, they're not. They're people, and hopefully they're very good people, but they're not perfect and they have fears and issues just like us.

 

The post above is great advice! Take it and run with it! Great job, Joey. :eusa_clap

And I really hope things work out for you, Brett. Perhaps you could make a compromise with her? She will probably let you come out to other people once you come out to your father first. I think part of the reason she wants you to tell him is that she doesn't want him to hear it from someone else... maybe? I know my parents would have been hurt if I hadn't told them first.

As for the counselor, perhaps you could convince her to let you go to a non-religious one? Just a regular therapist would be a better option than a religious counselor with an agenda.

Just my thoughts.

 

Legally, she can't make you go to a counselor, but she probably will anyways. Just know that you do not have to talk to him. You don't have to utter a single word to him. Until you're 16, though, the counselor is allowed to tell your mother everything that you talk about. Just keep that in mind if you do talk to him.

She also can't control you coming out to people, that's your choice. I recommend telling your father, though.

I'm insanely sorry for what's going on, and I, along with everyone else here, are totally here for anything.

 

Well - I haven't read all of Joey's post - but this part is essentially exactly what I was going to say (except that he did the PFLAG research).

"You're in Ft. Worth, which is a pretty major city, right? Get yourself to the nearest PFLAG chapter (www.pflag.org) and see if they can't help you out. Oh wait I found the Fort Worth one: http://webpages.charter.net/ransalih/ Or the nearest gay youth group. It seems to me you need some people on your side for support since your mum is obviously really struggling with it.

As for her smug comments regarding choice: if being gay is a choice, it's hardly a "lazy" or easy choice because why on Earth would you "choose" something that is obviously causing you such grief with your mother and such potential grief with your father."

Oh - and Becky might have some advice on this when she is around - tho' I know she is busy with renovating right now...

 

Okay, well if you email them, if it was possible, would you feel comfortable for them to pick you up from school and drop you home again afterwards? you could always say that you're going to a friends house.

But If you were to take that option, You need to make sure that one of the social workers collects you, because PFLAG groups generally (well in Australia it's mandatory) have a Social Worker there to make sure that you're all okay. You'd also need to check with the council/their ID just to make sure it was them in the first place.

Do you have any friends who could take you in for a while? Mayhaps your mother needs some time to think this all over and come to terms with it. She is obviously quite upset and distraught about the situation.
She could be grieving over things like, you'll probably never bring a girl friend home, you won't have kids (or she thinks you won't have or adopt kids), you'll die of AIDS (which, shocking as it seems, is actually a big factor in people's fears and insecurities about gay people/relatives/friends, as I have found out). You need to talk to her calmly, respectfully and politely, and if it gets to the stage where you think you need some space away from each other, even if it's only for a few hours or overnight, then get yourself out of there before it becomes a humongous fight. Your safety and wellbeing is the most important thing in this situation.

Please feel free to PM me at any time okay?

 

Woah woah wait up there Pal, I did say IF it was possible.

With my group it is, because it's a rural town, so if we can't get home then they usually give us a lift. I don't know about your town, but if you talk it over BEFORE you go there, and maybe go with a young person who you KNOW goes to that particular meeting, you might/should be able to sort a routine out.

Use the Phone Number in the Above post (Asteroid's) to see if it's possible before you get too excited. I don't know for sure if it's possibility where you live, but if it is, you need to get it properly checked out before you agree to go into anyone's car. It's possible with groups on the edges or near rural towns where I live, but you live in america, so I don't know the exact protocol or rules there.

Alternatively, you could do that for the first meeting and find out if someone else near to you goes to the group as well? Then maybe you could use him as cover (if your mom doesn't know him) when you get dropped home.

This is all hypothetical, I DON'T KNOW FOR SURE if it's possible where you live. I'm only suggesting it, because it's possible where I live. I cannot stress enough how important it is that if it IS possible, then you MEET the social worker before hand.

I'm sure your school would have a counsellor/chaplaincy office which would be in regular contact with social workers or A social worker from the PFLAG group. If that's the case, then meet the social worker AT SCHOOL in the Counsellors office!!
It is never a good idea to get into a car with someone you've never met, no matter WHO they say they are. If your school Counsellor/Chaplain verifies that the social worker is from your PFLAG group, then it's all okay, and you should be able to work something out.

I really hope this all works out fo ryou, because you seem like you need some real support from people your own age who know what it's like.

Tess.

 

The email address for the Fort Worth chapter is [email protected] according to the pflag.org website.

 

Brett, I'm still away and just briefly checked my messages. I got a PM from TriBi about this thread. I want you to look at this and print this out for your mom. Before she sends you to her Christian therapist she needs to read this: http://www.emptyclosets.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8668 .
This is what the American Psycholigcal Association has to say about reparative therapy. Hang in there.

 

Hey Brett, you're very welcome. I'm sorry you're in such a shitty situation but hopefully you can get through it ok.

 

Joey's advice is splendid. My addition is, since it is almost certain that going to a "Christian counseler" is not going to benefit you in the least, excersize your right to remain silent... if you don't cooperate with the counseler, and ignore him/her, there will be little incentive for your parents to spend the money to send you to him/her.

Besides, you seem smart and strong enough to be able to sort out your own problems without needing a counseler who's going to tell you that you are bound for hell for no good reason.

 

that was really mean of your ma to say you couldn't come out to people. most likely she is worried about what people will say. try seeing things from her point of view and talk to her about it. don't push her to much but try once every second or third afternoon. tell her that you didn't choose to be gay but that you were born gay and have grown to be comfortable with who you really are.