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Old 8th May 2008, 01:14 PM   #1
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Seeking help to help a friend with a confusing experience with his best friend

I am a college-aged, straight-identifying female ally who needs assistance in trying to help a male friend of mine out of a deep pit he’s in after he found himself falling in love with his best, male friend after a long, very ambiguous, emotionally intimate, and confusing relationship between the two of them. I have received permission to ask for help in how to help him (and by doing so to anonymously share details of his problem) and to help him find resources with which he can help himself. I will refer to my friend as K and his friend as J. There is a lot of background to this and a lot of words to this as I'm not sure how to properly condense the experiences of my friend to get at the core of his story.

Some background on my friend K… he’s one of my most favorite people in the world. He’s always been the protective “Mama Bear” of my friend circle and is incredibly empathetic and constantly tuned into everyone’s emotional states and problems. He was at the top of his class in high school and now attends a very prestigious collegiate institution as an undergraduate. He’s very bright, witty, and engaging. He also has an unreasonably low self-image that shows at times, and he presents as straight (he privately IDs as bisexual, but can easily present as straight as he has a fairly masculine demeanor) because he is afraid of rejection by both his parents and his community. Until this unfortunate string of events occurred, he had been out to only a few people (four straight girls including myself and one gay male, knowing all of them for 3-5 years) in his friend circle from home, and to none of his straight-presenting male friends. However, for almost the entire time he’s been out to me, he’s been ashamed of his sexuality at the same time that he’s lucid and cognizant as to his feelings, so there are some inner issues he needs to work through there.

K and J have always had an interesting relationship, in that, evidently, K is the only person J will open up to about almost anything painful or emotional, and even before K was attracted romantically to J, K was extremely protective of J. K is also one of maybe two people who J has felt comfortable enough sharing his deep past with, which included a lot of abuse (of an uncertain nature, but definitely physical in some respect) from his father that’s made J really reluctant to form intimate attachments, to trust people, and to admit to feelings. J loved (... will still love?) to spend time with K, spending something like literally 50% of the past summer with him. J was probably the nicest to K that he has been to any individual (which is one of the reasons why K liked him), and for awhile J had a trope where he would call K “his happiness.” Recently K began to have romantic feelings for J that he had suppressed until a few weeks ago.

There’s a lot of dramatic build-up in this, but at some point, after a really long and intense conversation J had with K during an emotional time wherein J told K that K was the “one of the only people he cared about” and that K was the “best person... who brought [J] through the week” and where K made J cry (in a positive way) while trying to help him, K began to gain an active hope. (Quotes are what I remember from conversations with K, but you get the idea.) I guess, either way, this conversation signaled that the two of them have a very intense friendship, but I think there was a seed planted wherein it became difficult to define their relationship in stereotypically straight-male terms, if that makes any sense. At least in my very limited experience, I’ve never known two men to be closer.

I can definitely understand why K began to think that there may be something more behind J. For example, K decided that if he was going to make himself ready to be in a same-sex relationship, he should be more honest about his sexuality, so he sent an e-mail to the friend circle on the subject that was primarily meant to put his straight friends in the know. Close after K sent the message to our friends, J spoke to the aforementioned out gay male in our friend circle to tell him that the message had “driven him to tears” and that he was “so proud” and “so happy” and that, off of a previous conversation that they had had wherein K ambiguously told J that he had an awkward romantic attachment, that J wanted to “ask [K] who his love is, because that kind of love shouldn’t be withheld.” Starting slightly before K’s coming out, J had also begun to send K an abnormally high number of messages (over 80+ in two weeks as opposed to one or two a week in prior days) talking about pretty much anything on J’s mind, and after the coming out insisted that K drive down to visit J back in our home state to spend the night. In addition, the friend circle had been confused about J’s sexuality in the past, as he had engaged in three kissing sessions with another man before (twice while sober), and, God help me for invoking this concept, many queer mutual friends said that their “gaydars” went off around him. There were a lot of other things I found weird even before I knew the whole story (J began to start tossing out “I love you” to K a lot without any kind of masculinity-affirming regulation), but the big idea is that K was inadvertently being set up for disaster.

Things began to fall apart when K came home to visit J. According to K, before K eventually admitted to J what he was feeling, there were a lot of weird little moments that built him up: J took K to a “secret spot” on J’s campus that was where J said he went when he was lonely at night, and in a moment of desperation K decided to look on J’s computer for signs of gay porn or what-have-you, and found a number of hits on Spotlight for “anal” and “gay” in websites before J walked back into the room. The more I hear, the more I see how this all plausibly could fit into a narrative wherein at the very least J is not completely straight, which leads to re-orienting questions as to what was the nature of their apparently close intimacy. (Given, there are some other explanations, though they’re hard for me to articulate.) However, when K found the courage in himself to ask as to J’s feelings, K was reproached, but from what I can gather in a somewhat odd way. Something like J insisting that he was completely straight (according to K, J said that he had had those same-sex makeout sessions because he was “comfortable with his sexuality”), but that he had “never been so touched in his life” and started to make a lot of physical contact with K while both were apparently crying. K kept asking if J felt anything for him but J wouldn’t reply to that question. It’s confusing, I guess... one other person K told about this described it as, “[J] saying yes and no at the same time.” But the dominant message was “no,” I can see. The conversation ended abruptly with K leaving, and K found himself devastated after this to the point of having seriously suicidal thoughts that have thankfully since subsided (or so I am told). This incident happened about two and a half weeks ago and is still haunting him.

In the end, I guess my question is: what can I do or say or anything to get my friend back on his feet? For the first time, he conquered an emotional barrier to admit a romantic-intimate feeling for someone, but he’s recoiling heavily from the backlash of rejection. I know he feels like he fucked up J and his friendship, and that he shouldn’t ever trust himself or his reasoning because it took him down such a bad path in this instance. He feels like he's crazy and worthless for thinking that there was something there that there evidently wasn't. In a universal sense, if I were there in his position, I would found myself equally as flabbergasted and led on, I think. For better or for worse, I have been trying to frame K and J’s relationship in familial terms, like “true” brotherhood, which he’s said has helped a bit, but I’m not sure if that is the right track to take (K apparently went to a therapist at his college who told him that J must secretly like him, which we both found bizarre and utterly counterproductive). I think he's also confused as to why J would ramp up contact and private/intimate moments after K's coming out, that he feels a little hurt in that respect as well. I'm also unsure as to how K is interpreting the last major conversation they had, and while I know that K realizes that it isn't useful to try to pursue any mystery of J any longer, I feel like part of him still wants to. I’m pained that I don’t have the experiences and skills myself to understand just what happened myself in a way that I can help K in any way except for being there for him when he needs someone to talk or cry to. I worry that K is going to continue being deeply ashamed of his sexuality and his extremely negative self-image is going to be reinforced. K had also for the first time begun to prepare ways in which he could tell his parents of his sexuality, but now I don’t think he’ll be looking to do that. He already made such an important step with coming out to all his close friends and being honest with his feelings, how can he make the next when he is ready? (His parents are both liberal-leaning, pro-gay marriage, and more importantly very loving to K, but his father has made some very homophobic comments in the past.)

It’s also going to be really awkward for K and J to interact once they are both home for the summer, and K has no idea how that’s going to work. (J has still kept up a fairly heavy contact with K that as far as I can tell acts as if nothing has changed, and insisted that they buy birthday presents for each other? J's still a confusing person.) K and J have said that they should talk about things further when they are both home for the summer, and I must admit that I myself am fretting as to what will happen next. Since not much has been resolved, what do you think would be valuable for them to talk about? Furthermore, I’m wondering if anyone has any idea as to where my friend could look up some good therapists or counselors who are experienced in LGBT/queer issues... he has expressed interest in seeking counseling, but hasn’t had any good experiences in the past.

If you have any advice as to what I can do for K or what K can do for himself, please don’t hesitate to let me know! Also, I might be able to elucidate or clarify if more information would be helpful in parsing this situation. Thank you so much!
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Old 8th May 2008, 01:29 PM   #2
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Re: Seeking help to help a friend with a confusing experience with his best friend

Wow...that was kind of hard to follow but I think I got the jest. It sounds kind of like K is further along in his acceptance of himself than J. J may sounds gay to me but is still in denial of himself but that is for him to figure out on his own. The problem is K's still got these big time feelings for him that is going to cause him alot of pain until J figures himself out, right? Am I getting it?

Well, I can help you with finding a good therapist for K. What I would do is find the number for your nearest PFLAG. Go to www.pflag.org . Ask them for recomendations for a therapist who deals with GLBT issues. This would be really good for helping K handle his own emotions and whether it is good or not so good to be spending so much time around J when he clearly has not good a goood handle on his emotions. I hope that helps a little.

You are a great friend to K. I hope he knows how lucky he is to have you!
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Old 8th May 2008, 01:48 PM   #3
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Re: Seeking help to help a friend with a confusing experience with his best friend

My advice to K would be to take some time to get over these feelings. And that'll probably involve minimizing contact - at least in person - for a while. He should be upfront about his feelings, although he can fudge the extent of it. "Honestly, I was starting to develop some feelings for you that apparently you don't feel for me. That's cool - it happens. I'm gonna need a bit of time to get back to where we were, and it'd be easiest if I wasn't in your physical presence quite so much. Please know that I still care deeply about you, and if you ever need anything, let me know. But I don't want our relationship to become strained by this, and so I think it'd be best if I took some time out to address this."

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Old 8th May 2008, 06:26 PM   #4
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Re: Seeking help to help a friend with a confusing experience with his best friend

I entirely agree with Lex's advice to TAKE TIME OFF! I was in a similar situation not long ago where I developed strong feelings for my friend, and given the things we did and the nature of our friendship compared to the nature of his friendships his other people, I had plenty of reason to believe he had feelings for me as well. When the time came for me to dig a bit deeper, I was rejected, and wow did it hurt.

I reacted negatively, and in doing so have probably messed up every good thing I had and could have had with this person.

In retrospect, it would have been hugely beneficial to deal with this rejection on my own. When someone's feelings are that involved and invested, you need to take the time to recuperate without further interference. It sounds all good and well that they're still talking, but if either one of them still has lingering feelings which continually remain unattended to, it can turn to frustration, which can lead to bad decisions.

If your friend has the patience and wherewithal to endure J's confusion beside him, while simultaneously sorting his own feelings out, then he is truly something amazing in my book.

Again, my recommendation is to have them both take time off from one another, however painful that may be by itself. If they can successfully sort themselves out individually, then they will both be better equipped to deal with each other's feelings.
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Old 8th May 2008, 07:16 PM   #5
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Re: Seeking help to help a friend with a confusing experience with his best friend

There hasn't been much response to this yet so i will put in my two bob.

This might be long

To start with, good on you for being such a good friend. In the world we live in it's hard to find a person that is willing to be proactive and has the initiative to try and help someone like this.

It's so easy for us to say that K should just get over it and move it. It's easy to say "I know its hard and i have felt like this aswel blah blah i understand blah blah" but the reality is NO ONE can relate like that to another person like that. It's not fair to say that to anyone, we try and offer advise on how you can move on, fix the solution or just accept it, not just to do it.

Now, we gather that K is a really nice, sensitive guy that has had a lot of really negative experienced in his past and he has had trouble opening up to other's. This is a EXTREMELY common thing, especially in guys; and has lead to really low self imagine, self value and confidence within himself.

People with such a low self value and little security within themselves often have a difficult time overcoming hardships. They have a weaker motivation to move on, being prismatic they doubt that things could get better and that even if they could, that they themselves are incapable of doing something as big and hard as making a lifestyle change.


I know none of this seems directly related to the problem, I'm thinking out loud trying to grasp the real persona of J and K. This is all speculation, i am by no means an expert so i suggest you don't take much heed to my words.

Moving on..

I have always believed that true empathy and the ability to truly relate can only come from experience, thus said i think it's going to be really hard yourself, as well as anyone else on these boards to give any realistic advise.

The biggest problem here is that from reading your post, we have naturally become bias; empathizing K and seeing things more from his view. There is nothing really wrong with this, it's not the kind of scenario where we are seeing J as the bad guy, but it is more difficult to relate to J then it is to K.

I understand that you are closer to K and that all this information comes from what he has provided and what you have observed yourself, but I really think that you should talk to J yourself and try and understand where he is coming from.

K is fighting many daemons at the moment, many within himself, his environment, his friends/family and obviously with J. K has experienced the ultimate form of rejection and has had many of his morals and views shaken. His sense of purpose, hope and his emotional strength have been destroyed and at this stage, while he in the stage of coming out, worrying about college, family and fighting insecurity you need to focus on helping K with other issues before you move onto J

One of K's biggest misgivings is that the nature of his relationship with J seems different to a lot of others (on the surface anyway) this has probably provoked a lot of false hopes or expectations. Both guys seem really confused and are sending each other mixed signals.

Time and distance will help both guys, they need to figure out who and what they are and become comfortable with it before they are ready for the inevitable confrontation.

(this said, if by some miracle J has a revelation and comes back wanting K in his arms; that would change many things in K; not just his loneliness and rejection.)

The coming summer is going to be an ultimatum for K and in his current state, another negative experience will really push him over the edge and could be catastrophic.

The help K is going to need isn't something that you alone can supply. He will need all his friends and family to really be there for him BEFORE the summer, during the summer and potentially after.

Self confidence, value and insecurity are the first and most major things that he will need help with first. After having such strong feelings for someone (J) and being rejected he will be feeling worthless, stupid and extremely vulnerable. K is a bottler and so he will portray that he is feeling a lot better then he really is. The hardest thing for you and his friends that try to help is accepting that they may get absolutely no praise for their work. You may see no change at all in K's behavior and demeanor no matter what you say, he may not acknowledge anything you try and do for him but is so important that you continue trying anyway.

Anything from gathering up your circle of friends and arriving at his doorstep with some chick flicks and a heap of ice cream to taking him out to events (some of this may have to be forced to start with) will help him a lot. He may not show it or say anything but it will reassure him that he is not worthless and that people do love him.


Making K secure in his sexuality and MORE importantly, secure in how other people perceive him and his sexuality will be really important. Stop word from spreading, make sure that EVERYONE he has told gives him positive reassurance that they are accepting and supportive of Whatever it is ( i see it as important to tell K that they are supporting of WHATEVER he is, not just Bi ) if there are people that do not feel comfortable around K then distance him from them for the time being.

I'm getting carried away and am running out of time so I'm going to cut it short.

The summer is going to be the hardest part of all this for K.

He is going to be away from some of his friends (i assume) and there is going to be confrontation between K and J.

He more then likely will have false hopes in his mind, J's presence will send K back into a bad state again if K doesn't get the happily ever after he has in his head. Although they will probably be friends and act kind to each other at face value when they meet there will be a lot of guiled emotions and awkwardness.

J and K are going to need to talk about how both of them really feel. It's wrong of both of them to make assumptions about the other and they need to clear things up.

Be straight forward, tell him how you feel, why and ask how he feels, tell him that you are going to need time to get back to neutral, that he has been rejected and that you need to heal.


I know this is the last thing you want to hear, but i actually agree with the person that said J secretly likes K.

I have experienced situations similar to this quite a few times and some have gone from worse to this to happily ever after, some not.

I believe J is bi/gay but is by no means ready to come out. In the heat of the moment, when K is sitting next to him he can't control himself (no one can) and they do foolish things. He feels very vulnerable because of K and doesn't want those kind of tags via association.

The worst part of all this is that although J seems gay/bi, the fact that he is obviously not ready within himself to accept it or come out of the closet. This means that there can never be a healthy relationship between J and K, there will always be fear, anxiety and awkwardness between the 2 until they are on the same level.

I say it all the time, but it doesn't matter if a person is G/B/L. Until the person accepts it within themselves and is ready for others to know and be let in then nothing healthy will ever happen.

Summary:

K is insecure and needs unconditional support and love.

J seems gay/bi and to like K a lot, but really hesitant and vulnorable.

Both are very confused, and J needs as much help at K.

Summer could go either way.

Good luck.

Last edited by Gumtree; 8th May 2008 at 07:26 PM..
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Old 8th May 2008, 11:32 PM   #6
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Re: Seeking help to help a friend with a confusing experience with his best friend

I've gone through this situation twice. I'm currently in the second one, having already confessed feelings and whatnot, and we're still friends. Tell your friend he's more than welcome to talk to me about it, I'm quite experienced in the field of falling for best friends. Can be completely anonymous too. Send me a PM and we can chat about it.
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Old 9th May 2008, 07:12 AM   #7
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Re: Seeking help to help a friend with a confusing experience with his best friend

OK - that's probably the longest post in the history of EC - given that there are only 6 entries!!!

As I read that story (novel! jk! ) I actually thought that it sounded rather typical. Not to minimize it, but it is quite similar to many experiences that people have shared here on EC. Maybe not all rolled into one story as K has experienced here, but it has all the fairly typical elements:
  • struggled for a long time with his own sexuality and still isn't entirely comfortable with it
  • liberal / gay friendly parents but still hasn't told them
  • open to just a few very close friends
  • crush on a very close friend
  • close friend also has serious 'issues' growing up, is somewhat needy, hasn't learned how to relate to people, and could very well also be gay but is not as far along that curve of acceptance as K is
So I think the advice that you've already received is great. I think K just needs to carry on with life - because it just gets better. Honest. You can quote me if you want to.

And he should hang out in here, because I found it extremely helpful to chat here with other gay men and women. It allowed me to get comfortable with my orientation and know that I wasn't alone. Being gay wasn't a bad thing at all, and that people had gone before me, and would come after me, in dealing with coming out.

Finally - he should give you a hug, for being such a great friend. And you should give him a kick in the butt for making you post that incredibly long story, and not doing it himself!!

So welcome to EC - and get K in here too!
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Old 9th May 2008, 07:29 AM   #8
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Re: Seeking help to help a friend with a confusing experience with his best friend

You are a great friend...

All the good advice has already been given so I'm just gonna say 1 more thing: Tell him to listen to 'Better in time' by Leona Lewis. It sooo relates.
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Old 10th May 2008, 04:00 AM   #9
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Re: Seeking help to help a friend with a confusing experience with his best friend

If J has been sexually abused (which sounds likely given both the description you gave and some of J's behaviors), and he hasn't had the opportunity to process it in therapy, then J is likely experiencing a lot of unconscious confusion. If indeed he is gay, he may have a tremendous amount of shame and guilt about it because of the abuse.

The other issue here is that it's very common for abuse survivors to have problems with emotional intimacy; on the one hand, a conscious desire to be with someone and be close and open, but on the other hand, a deep, unconscious fear of intimacy. So the "yes and no" response would be consistent with someone with an unresolved abuse issue, and certainly consistent with someone struggling with their own sexual identity.

K, on the other hand, is struggling with his own issues, and obviously has a rather delicate sense of himself at present because he hasn't yet fully embraced his own sexuality. And, being a very caring person, K may naturally find himself drawn toward J and wanting not only to be with him, but to help and support him.

The other thing to know about abuse survivors is that they generally have crappy boundaries (because they learned that their bodies were not in their own control) so they may be very open one moment and very closed the next, and/or they may send very confusing signals because they aren't consciously aware of their boundaries. This could easily be the case with J.

I actually think the therapist's advice may have been right on the money. J probably does feel attraction to K, but is either consciously or unconsciously (or both) fearful of *any* relationship, and/or uncomfortable/confused with his sexuality, so the net result is that J is, for the time being, going to be most comfortable at a bit of a distance.

I am inclined to agree with the other advice about giving the relationship space. Maintain a friendship, perhaps directly address what feels "safe" for each person in terms of disclosure, physical contact (hugging, etc) and treat it as an opportunity to develop a deep friendship with someone who is obviously a wonderful person. Then, if both of the parties get to a place where it feels safe to take it a step further, that remains an option. But pushing it at this point is likely only to alienate the relationship.

Hope that helps.
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Old 10th May 2008, 12:56 PM   #10
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Re: Seeking help to help a friend with a confusing experience with his best friend

Everyone, I just came back to this and was (positively!) overwhelmed by the responses. I am currently studying for a final I am taking this evening, but after that I am going to take a detailed look at everything, whew.

Thank you all so much for your thoughts (I'm already bookmarking the PFLAG website to check things out and to forward to K).
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Old 11th May 2008, 10:53 PM   #11
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Re: Seeking help to help a friend with a confusing experience with his best friend

Quote:
Again, my recommendation is to have them both take time off from one another, however painful that may be by itself. If they can successfully sort themselves out individually, then they will both be better equipped to deal with each other's feelings.
This had been in the back of my mind too, but it's good to hear some support on this, ya? It's going to be rough, I think, because I think J has really been pressing to go to a "status quo" state and already has several (largely one-on-one) plans he is trying to line up with K. K and I are both in the midst of our finals periods so it's hard to catch each other, but I think it'd probably be best if there is any K/J interaction in the first week or so that it's group interaction in the whole of the friend circle versus all of these K/J get-togethers that I see happening. This is just my perspective, though. It really does come to those two elements though: re-triggering the pain and needing to figure out each other's individual emotions before it gets back.

Quote:
I understand that you are closer to K and that all this information comes from what he has provided and what you have observed yourself, but I really think that you should talk to J yourself and try and understand where he is coming from.
K hasn't brought this up himself yet... I'm not sure if playing a (psuedo)neutral party in this situation is something K would like for me to do, but that is an interesting idea and I will speak with him about it. I'm definitely closer to K than I am to J, but then again that kinda comes back to how confusing their relationship was in the first place. ... It may be worth a shot, though. I have only briefly seen J since things happened, and don't really have much of any sort of impressions at the moment, which is probably why it'd be good to talk! Touching on some of the later sentiments, though... it is probably true that J needs some help, too... again, though, J's standby for that was always K... that'll be something that'll have to work itself out, but your comment made me realize that I had begun to turn J into more of a character rather than a person, if that makes any sense, and that I should be more aware of his individuality in this and not just him as is reflexive to K.

Quote:
Not to minimize it, but it is quite similar to many experiences that people have shared here on EC. Maybe not all rolled into one story as K has experienced here, but it has all the fairly typical elements:...
I think you're right in your sentiment, here, though, at least from my own perspective? His story is a unique event at the same time that these sorts of things have happened before. That sort of thing makes me feel a bit better, at least, to have as grounding the knowledge that I'm not some sort of especially awful whatever because things have played out in the exact same way before to people who aren't me, y'know? The same for K, maybe? This also relates to a recurring idea in the replies that it might be good for K to talk to someone who has been through some similar experiences when he is comfortable. I'll see.

Quote:
All the good advice has already been given so I'm just gonna say 1 more thing: Tell him to listen to 'Better in time' by Leona Lewis. It sooo relates.
Not familiar with it, but will find it, thank you!

Quote:
If J has been sexually abused (which sounds likely given both the description you gave and some of J's behaviors), and he hasn't had the opportunity to process it in therapy, then J is likely experiencing a lot of unconscious confusion. If indeed he is gay, he may have a tremendous amount of shame and guilt about it because of the abuse.
I wish I was K right now because I feel like he has a lot more ideas about this... this is one of my worst possible fears as it relates to J, and I really hope that this isn't the case. I think, I think that J's dad is in jail (J lives with grandparents; and this is also the neverending problem of "J shuts almost everyone out but K," and so my impression is based on a lot of implied comments and such)... there's definitely something really awful that happened, and I worry as to what. J has had two heterosexual relationships in the past that ended pretty poorly, but I don't even think that means anything, or does it?

Quote:
I actually think the therapist's advice may have been right on the money. J probably does feel attraction to K, but is either consciously or unconsciously (or both) fearful of *any* relationship, and/or uncomfortable/confused with his sexuality, so the net result is that J is, for the time being, going to be most comfortable at a bit of a distance.
I wanted to read it the same way, and, some part of me believes this is true... but, in relation to right now, the reason why I thought it was counterproductive for like a first or second therapy section is that I at least feel that K needed to not be second-guessing at that moment and instead focus on how to make himself okay in that early vulnerable period... at the same time, again, I must wonder about this. A lot of my own confusion is admittedly based on a lot of societal programming about how non-sexual, non-familial male-male relationships are supposed to be like; like, "this is not typical heterosexual-heterosexual male intimacy, there must be something else going on." Still, when I was learning about things, if I didn't already know that something was wrong, my intuition would have been strongly that the end sentence would be something like, "... so now we're dating." It really made so much sense.
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Old 12th May 2008, 05:03 PM   #12
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Re: Seeking help to help a friend with a confusing experience with his best friend

if j has been sexually abused them it would make sense to why he is going through this really unsure time and is trying to act as if nothing happened. it is really hard to forget something like that and he'll need alot of time to get through it.

if you think he has please pm me as i could help you out in that area of this. and that's if you think that he has and that it might be apart of the problem
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Old 11th Sep 2014, 11:18 PM   #13
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Re: Seeking help to help a friend with a confusing experience with his best friend

Hi, I am not sure if you still use this account but I just came across this post. I would like to know how it turned out for him and j. I was recently in a similar situation and would like to know how it played out. Anything to help me in my situation. Which is very close to k and j's. With a little unique difference. Thank you, I hope to hear from you soon
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Old 12th Sep 2014, 01:45 AM   #14
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Re: Seeking help to help a friend with a confusing experience with his best friend

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Originally Posted by romanhearted View Post
Hi, I am not sure if you still use this account
Yeah no.

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