Anger

"I'm sorry for having this mental schema that is detrimental to the gay community and to myself."

Hold you on mate, don't apologise for things out of your control! Save your apologies for when you do something wrong!

So there is an unfortunate contradiction in your request, that I am sure you are aware of, but I need to point it out before I progress. You begin by asking how to see things differently, and progress to tell us every reason you can think of not to. This leads me to believe that whatever advice I can provide is going to be uncomfortable to hear and more-so to act upon. However, I don't think you would be here asking for help if you had no intention of trying to fix the problem so I shall do my best to come up with something useful.

The primary issue you seem to have identified is this 'ladder of masculinity'. Correct me if I'm wrong, but from what you have written I feel as though you would doubt your ability to progress to the upper rungs of this ladder even if you were completely straight. If I am wrong, as I say correct me, but there appears to be a significant self-confidence and self-worth issue coming in to play here before we even touch upon your sexuality.

My first question is as follows. Who are you trying to prove yourself to?
There is, among a significant quantity of males, an automatically perceived scale of masculinity, however I find that it only seems to be applied when there is someone higher on the scale an individual feels the need to prove themselves to. My friends, for example, are all male but have never once questioned how masculine any of them are, and they are by no means 'manly men'. Yet I have other friends, who, in the company of a more 'alpha' male will suddenly find themselves needing to prove their masculinity. So, is there and individual? A group? Do you feel you need to prove your masculinity to all men, perhaps? Or are you trying to prove something to yourself?

My second question follows quite closely to the first, and is a great deal more simple. Why does proving your masculinity matter to you?
What do you stand to gain, or indeed to lose, if your masculinity were called into question?

 

I think you really take a 3rd person view and pick yourself apart... a bit harshly if i may add. I like your ability to criticize yourself but I feel as though your "masculinity" has given you the hate on gays that you so fear others see on you if you come out. And with this vision you see all of the negative outcomes. It almost seems like you're two different people claiming to be the person. One person is this popular guy and everyone views as just a static or unchanging person. While the other is a guilt filled and ashamed closeted guy. I'm sorry if this doesn't make sense but your analysis is very contradictive as you loathe the prosecution of being gay because the side of you that "fits in" is filling you with doubt but is biased in the way of society (being the judgmental element most gays fear)

Overall I think you understand the risks and I sympathize on your fear of losing status.
Not all people are as judgmental as you think they are. For all you know you may even be more liked for your honesty.

I hope I make sense.

 

When you think about it, masculinity is just a concept. It doesn't demonstrate how good of a person you are for example. It might allude to some potential hobbies and interests maybe even appearance but that's about it. The yearning to conform to a stable group especially the most powerful group in society, in your case straight men, is normal. Why would any one want to lose their privilege? But think of it this way...you must value strength and courage in one way or another right? I honestly think there is little else to show strength and courage than being yourself as a gay man (or trans or lesbian or what have you) and owning it. I can promise you that these "straight" guys probably couldn't even imagine how much it really takes to be out and confident. Seriously, they have it so much easier in that regard...if they had a day in your shoes they probably wouldn't be able to handle it for a day. And that's one fact that makes you so much more interesting than them. I'm sure that with this experience you will also learn some thing very powerful: and that is empathy and how to critically think about society's impositions. You are probably more likely to help other minority groups and have the courage to stand up for them. You'd likely even treat women nicer than these macho-men...why? Because you know what it's like to feel different or be pushed down so there's a chance you wouldn't want to do that to any one else. Now what is that there...that's kindness and that to me also demonstrates strength. You are strong.

Bottom line is that we've all been trying to conform our whole lives to the opinions of straight cis white men. Do they approve? Will they think of less of me if x, y and z?...But why do we care so much? We need to stop worrying about what some other people think of us, especially those that may oppress us, and that's the only way the world could be a more accepting place for people of all sort of backgrounds and experiences.

Hang in there.
Hugs!

 

I'm glad you have a grasp on the reality. It seems that your only dilemma now is whether or not you should come out.
It doesn't always have to be a public announcement. You can try starting with your closest friends and work your way like that.
I feel like you have a better understanding of yourself and so you can decide what's next. I'm simply putting in my 2 cents ^_^
Best of luck to you and if you are confused about anything else i hope you are able to clear those up.

 

No problem

 

You are making the mistake of letting other people, or what you imagine other people are thinking, to define "masculinity" for you. Any guy can have sex with a woman, most of whom are more passive (due to lower T levels) and conditioned by society to be deferential to men and act less dominant. But if you take on another man, you have to be prepared to have sex with someone who is closer to being your physical equal. You have to be , if anything, MORE "masculine", not less. In reality, your sense of masculinity has little to do with your sexual role or orientation, but everything to do with your self-confidence. You need to be thinking in terms of proactively asserting yourself, not as a gay man, but simply as a man, without any prejudicial adjective modifiers.

Forget about the gay-straight thing for now. Think about how you are managing your life. Are you taking control of your career development? Are you using the skills you have? Are you doing what you want to do with your life? Have you put some money away for rough times if they come, so you can bounce back? If you can put yourself in the position where you better control your own destiny, then surely you will develop the attitude that "I'm queer, I'm here, and if you don't like it, you can go F___ yourself." No one will question your "masculinity", including yourself, whether they think you are gay or straight in orientation.

 

In terms of masculinity surrounding physical appearance many case studies have been done that highly suggest that gay males look more masculine then straight males. But really the topic of masculinity is very subjective and is up to the individual to decide. For me i don't acknowledge masculinity beyond physical appearance because mentally i dont know what sort of standards are meant to be held by the candidate

 

I think Yossarian comment is a very good one and really sums up what I wanted to say. We often do not realise that it takes a lot of courage to be openly LGBT and many times you need to be really strong for that. I'm not saying that you should look down on straight people but you definitely shouldn't let anyone look down on you because of being gay

On a different note as you said, being gay is not a problem to be good as many traditionally "manly" things. Just to name an example, you can be as good as martial arts as any straight guy (you may even have extra motivation!). What I mean is that by any means you need to give up any "manly" hobbies or tastes if that is what you like and it may even help you with additional motivation.

 

LAMBSHANKS, let me tell you what helped me put my foot down and prevent the world from crushing me. It may sound silly, but what helped me was something I heard in two movies.

The first one is TORCH SONG TRILOGY, and if you haven't seen it yet I urge you to do so ASAP. In this movie a gay man is confronting his mother's difficulty in accepting his homosexuality. When their strained relationship turns into a huge argument, he finally stops his mother and says, "You want to be a part of my life, I'm not editing out the parts you don't like! There's one more thing you better understand. I have taught myself to sew, cook, fix plumbing, build furniture, I can even pat myself on the back when necessary - all so I don't have to ask anyone for anything. There's NOTHING I need from anyone except love and respect, and anyone who can't give me those two things HAS NO PLACE IN MY LIFE. You're my mother. I love you. I do. But if you can't respect me, you've got no business being here."

Now, I'm not telling you to disrespect anyone, least of all your folks. But here's what you do with those words. Watch the movie THE LORD OF THE RINGS.... the first one, "Fellowship of the Ring". In that movie Gandalf turns and confronts Durin's Bane, the monstrous fiery Balrog. Gandalf slams his staff on the ground between them and screams, "YOU SHALL NOT PASS!!"

THAT's what you do. Stand your ground and draw a line in the sand when the world comes against you. If they do not have love and respect for you, they shall not pass!

Just don't let the world turn you bitter and cynical. Remember, THEY are the ones with the problem - not you. Keep your heart pure and let them shrivel in their own gall and ugliness.

 

I generally agree with you, however...

I quit a Krav Maga martial arts class I was attending due to my sexuality making things awkward.

The instructor paired everyone up & put me with this really attractive guy to teach us some new moves. Anyone else would have been fine, but this guy was incredibly good looking.

The instructor spent 10 minutes explaining a move to us, which had me lying down on my back with this adonis straddling my crotch. Things could not have been any more awkward. I couldn't look at him. I tried silently meditating. I tried everything and anything to consciously control my blood flow and stop the inevitable from happening.

Well, I failed. After a few minutes the inevitable happened.

Seriously, put any young straight guy in the same situation with an incredibly attractive girl straddling his crotch and the same thing would occur. I guess that's why these things tend to be sex-segregated.

I think I kinda got away with it as noone else in the room noticed, although the guy clearly felt it & looked very embarrassed. I felt like a bloody sex offender. I never went back after that!