Ok. To start off, If you didn't know, I'm Gay :smilewave. But I am also a Christian. I came out to a friend at church camp resently, and soon after camp I came out to one of the people to preached to the youth at the camp. We have been having an on going discisison on the topic of Homosexuality. Well I was reading the bible the other day, and I came across something, and I really had a revealation. It was Romans 14. It is as follows.... ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Romans 14 (New International Version) New International Version (NIV) Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society Romans 14 The Weak and the Strong 1Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. 2One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. 4Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand. 5One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. 8If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. 10You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat. 11It is written: " 'As surely as I live,' says the Lord, 'every knee will bow before me; every tongue will confess to God.' "[a] 12So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God. 13Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way. 14As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. 15If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died. 16Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil. 17For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men. 19Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall. 22So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves. 23But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I asked him what the chapter ment to him, and he not answering asked me what I felt it ment. And here is my responce. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Becouse you believe that being is a sin then you are right. It is a sin, for you, but because I have faith that it is not a sin, and I do not condem myself for what I believe, then for me, it is not a sin. I am also speaking against the condemtion of what I believe. I am not seeking to disprove, or condem your beliefs. I accept what you believe. My goal is not to change what you believe, But I feel that I have the right to justify my beliefs. I am not trying to suduce people who belive that they would go to hell for being gay. I'm not trying to suduce anyone. But still, because the believe that they would go to hell if they did subcome to homosextualiy regardless then they would go to hell for it. Not because they are Gay, but because they didn't have faith that it was ok to love another in that way. They did make a consiouse descision, but the descision wasn't to be gay or straight. The descision was to condem themselves for what they belive, and while believing that they were sinning they committed the act. They don't have faith that it is okay in God's eyes, But because they act against what they believe is God will then they are still acting against God, whether its ok or not. The difference is having FAITH. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I really felt like it was worth sharing. I hope you agree. Thanks for reading. <3 Josh(&&&)
Well, I'm still decidedly agnostic, I'm really not sure what I believe at the moment. But that definitely was worth sharing, and it's wonderful that you came to this conclusion I wonder if the Westboro Baptist Church have happened to come across that certain part of the bible...
I doubt they would read that part, or even acknowledge it. Don't the Westboro Baptist Church use the New King James Bible? Most other churches denounced the New King James Bible as a flawed and inaccurate bible because King James took scripts from another bible and changed them to suit his own beliefs. But I think that was a good Argument to use, thank you for sharing that with us.
We'll I copied and pasted the NIV version, but the message is the same in every Bible I have read. I have read it in about 5 different versions of the Bible. When I come across something that really gets me in the Bible I read it and reread it in other versions. To see if it says the same thing. I don't have a Catholic Bible but the message has thus far been almost identical for every Bible. Sure its said differently. But that would be expected. And like I was saying. I'm not here to sway beliefs. I wrote it in defence of my own beliefs. What "most other chuches" believe is between them and God. Tho, Like Romans 14 said, I wont let my beliefs be pushed down, or condemed by others without mention of this. Because I dont Condem myself for what I believe. I wanted to share this with EC because, there are probly alot of Christain gay people struggling with finding Identitly with themselves, and with God. This isn't about Choosing one or the other. Its about living a life that you yourselves accept. A life that you do not condem yourself for. You can have God, and be gay, as long as you are faithful that it is right. If other people condem you for it, then that is between them and God. This is for people, good people, some of which think they are living a deviant lifestyle. If you believe that then it is true. I'm so sorry for anyone who was hurt by a "Christian." I mean I have been myself, I've had some really rocky times, and my Faith was tested quite a bit. I have come threw that. I'm not here to convert anyone. I'm here to love everyone. I condem no one for there beliefs. I hope that I am not condemed for mine. I was once told that Christains are more known for what they stand against that what they stand for. There are 10 vertues that make up a True Christian; Faith, Hope, Love, Wisdom, Temerance, Fortitude, Justice, Friendship, Generosity, and Gratitude. These things are what it means to be a Christian. Just because you believe in God, and that Jesus died for you isn't all of it. LOVE is the most importaint vertue of all. People who go around hating people because they are not the same spoil the name of Christianity. The Bible doesn't say to love other Chirstians. The Bible says to Love everyone, not just some people. EVERYONE. There are radical Christain groups, full of hate. I pity them. I really do. In there condemption of others they have condemd themselves. They are so jaded that they will probly never see the truth. I'm not here to change anyones beliefs, but I hope that I can at least show what It means to really be a Christian, and not a Hypocrit. There are so few people who I really see as truely Christain. I see alot of people who try to be, but don't know how. But I see far more who are content just faking it just so they can look better for social stature. It pains me to think that so many people have been hurt by these people who have no right to call themselves Christian...lol, well I guess I'll stop here. Its getting kind of hard to see...My eyes are tearing up. Thank you for reading this. <3 Josh
I suppose this would be helpful for people trying to come out to religious friends or themselves...maybe...
very good. thats how i view christianity actually. yay for lgbt christians! *high five* i think they have scowered the whole book to find everything that the can use to make their teachings [not] make sense. or maybe they have a lesser known contreversey about how someone made that up, in which case we need to teach them greek.
no, i really like your points josh. i think many, if not most, people have some sort of an issue with their homosexuality not being accepted by others in the name of religion so its great to hear you thoughts. you put it down very well too, fair to yourself as well as respectful to others who dont see eye to eye. thanks.
WOOT I really didn't write this for anyone in particular, Just to help the youth pastor/theology teach i know understand where i was coming from. But anyways, I dont think what i had writen is for people who are really to the point of coming out to other people yet. I think its more for people who are punishing themselves for the feelings they are having. Feeling scared, alone, depressed, believing in God, but feeling that they are doing something disgraceful. Having thought they cant control that they feel will send them to hell. I know how it is. I was there. Its not nessesarily about coming out to people, Its about coming out to yourself, and Accepting yourself, and having Faith that God does accept you also. Thanks, I'm sort was sort of worried that no one would really listen to me. I'm not exactly confident in my writing, and I know my grammar isn't great. On top of all that my spellcheck is acting up lol. I'm also only 19, so I cant help but think people will read it and think, 'wow this kid doesn't know what he's talking about, he hasn't seen the things I have seen.' And as far as being respectful for all parties, Its because I try my best to Love everyone around me. That doesnt mean I wont offend some people. On the contrary, I will probly offend alot of people in my life being Christian and Gay, because to alot of people on both side that doesn't mix. What I'm doing is living my life in a way to show people It does mix. I'm not some Bible thumping Christian who spits verses at people out of context taking things completely at face value. I am going to live my life based on Christian values, Faith, Hope, Love, Wisdom, Strength, Temperance, Fortitude, Justice, Friendship, Generocity, and Gratitude. I want to lead by example, not force people into my beliefs. If someone Looks at my life and says WOW i want that, then they can have it. But if someone says I dont know, thats not for me, then thats there descision, and no matter what I will love them for it. You know its funny, I never used to use love so much when i talked or typed. I used to not be able to say it, or express it to the people around me. But now, I can, and its genuine. I'm not saying love, I really mean it. There are different kinds of love, but I feel it towards everyone around me. I made this reailization for myself. It lifted a wieght from me. I'm not making any promises to anyone tho. I dont know if anyone else will be effected the same way. I cant say that it will happen the same way for anyone else. Regardless, I can share my experiances, what few I have had. Maybe it will help someone, and mabey it wont. The chance that I could even help one person a little bit is enough for me. I'm not out to change the entire world, but if there is the chance that I can make even a small possitive impact one someones life, then I will take it. Just to clarify, I dont mean making them see God, or become Christian. I mean showing a lonely person love, and friendship. I mean helping someone come to terms with themselves, and love themselves for who they are. To be careing to everyone around me, no matter the situation. I don't care if it wont be easy. I dont want it to be. It is more than worth fighting for. (&&&) <3 Josh
Good points, but I haven't seen anything in my life to make me believe in God, so i'm agnostic. I do believe in Angels however.. check out the song "looking for angels" by the band skillet, if u like rock.
That is an interesting passage. The way I read it is that it gives us the right to govern ourself. This passage does present something I have believed all along. That what I believe and do is between me and God. You may not like it, but it is not your place to judge. The real interesting part here is I have looked up several bible passages recently in regards to the attitude that all gays are going to hell. Honestly I wonder if I am reading the same bible as these folks. What I have read is much different view of Christianity than I was taught growing up. I was taught that Christianity was very narrow and if you don't act how the church says you should you are sinning and making God mad. That is not at all what I read though. What I read is that Jesus took the place of all judgements past and future. Because of this God no longer judges us and that the old rules no longer apply. There are no new rules but just guidance, and it is our responsibility to find our way. Much like when a child becomes an adult.
