Why would someone

I can't tell if this post seems hateful to me or not...

As for your own feelings, I would say just figure out what it is you like. It won't be easy if you have all that pressure to be straight from your job and your family...

As for why people would fall in love, that should be an easy question. It's not gross or sinful, it's simply a facet of life. This is coming from someone who used to be a Mormon, in a not too gay friendly city. And while you may believe that it's wrong, just remember that it's simply your belief, not a fact. And also a little bit contradictory to say you don't side with it, and then practice it on the side.

And if you ever do have children, don't disown them. Love them. You brought them into the world, they are your little miracles.

 

Hey sdd55. Welcome

Why you suppose you are going to cause serious issues if you are honest with yourself and free??. I didn't when I told people. If some people, no matter how close are too you, are unhappy with it, it is their problem. Your life is yours. same sex attraction, gay, whatever is natural. My father is left-handed and was despised for it by his teachers. They said it was unnatural. Is it unnatural? NO, it is less common. You may have sources against homosexuality. I have more than contradict them, especially if we take into account the more respectable ones.

Dont project your problems into a future son. your internalized homophobia seems quite big. Mine was too, especially because being gay/same sex attracted conflicted with my sense myself as a masculine guy. But what is more masculine than being honest wiht ourselves, instead of hiding, lying, fullfiling some role only because you are afraid of the consecuences. By the way, have you ever questioned yourself why you hate gays? you seem to share some sexual tastes with us. Is it because we can be ourselves, and we can love and be loved without guilt and a double life?

I recommend you to love and accept yourself a little more, as cheesy as it sounds. I did it and it worked. If you don't do it you will be unhappy no matter how perfect your life seems to be. If you choose to be honest and brave and start looking to "some invisble person" you have a fair chance of finding hapiness then.

 

Because we want to be themselves. And anyway, I have no sympathy if they feel 'pain and loss' because they've found out that their child is gay. Why should I sympathise?

 

Greetings,

I am sorry that you are feeling depressed at the moment, many people have called this the disease of directing anger inwardly, as opposed to lashing out. It would be perhaps helpful to address that anger. You ask " What is the benefit of doing that?" (coming out), but perhaps the question should be posed as: "What have I got to lose if I do that?"...and I would think that, in your case, a lot.

As I am myself a past master at self-delusion, let's get at least a little honest and agree that your "one time things" are not one-time at all, so what if it is with different guys? What matters is the pattern, your attractions tend toward members of the same sex, you need to own that beyond rationalizations or compartmentalizing away that "thing" that you do. As for firing someone for being gay...I don't have the words (so I'll use yours) to express what a "disgrace" and "an abomination to humanity" that is.

No one here will convince you of anything...but, to answer your question: I think it is a fall from grace to live a lie, your homosexuality is a deeply ingrained part of yourself and you are denying it with religious and cultural bullshit. Whatever you believe about "bloodlines" or the basic Purpose of Life (the definition of which has eluded better minds than yours over the centuries) maybe, just maybe you may choose (although I doubt it) to live with integrity instead of pretending to be what you are not. Perhaps that anger I spoke of above is the result of that nasty set of half-baked, elitist family-heirloom beliefs that you have internalized so thoroughly that you would disown your own son for being what you yourself are. If that is not a disgrace, I don't know what is (I would sooner commit suicide than do that to any of my three kids).

Living with integrity means, first and foremost, being the same inside and out and accepting what you can't change. That takes courage, especially when you have a lot to lose. What have you got to gain? A whole new world of feeling and of love. Instead of dealing with the corpse of your unlived life, and the deadness of feeling that comes with depression, you may find the freedom you have so thoroughly rejected...you should try it sometime, it would do you a world of good.

 

We're all glad you decided to seek information, but that's not how we feel about it.
In my family, we are all atheists, apart from my mum's side. There is nobody in my family who I feel would outright disown me.
I have a younger brother, and an older brother and sister. My sister just had her first child. Because of this, I am not worried about the pressure to bear children to 'carry on the bloodline'.
The main question though, I can answer with much more difficulty. As I have not come out to my immediate family, I do not know their reactions. The reason I want to tell them however, is that one day, when I am happy with somebody who's not the stereotypical straight male, my family won't be shocked. The also won't pressure me into straight relationships, and will understand me more.
I won't to show my family who I really am, and I'm sure they would want to know who I am too. It's difficult to suppress things that are a part of you.

 

I'm sorry that you're miserable. However, I'm forced to point out that that pain is very much a thing of your own making and a thing that you choose to maintain and build each day. It is also something you can choose to tear down any time you want.

You talk a lot about how you were raised by your family. I was raised that above all things I should be true to myself. Even above my family. Perhaps especially above my family. I am out to pretty much my entire family. When I came out to my mom, it took her a little while to get used to it (in response, I made a point of throwing it in her face every chance I got), but then she did and now she calls my husband (yup, I'm married to a man - we just tied the knot after 18yrs together) her other son. I'm out at my job (and have been out at work for the last several jobs, all with Fortune 500 companies) all of my coworkers have met my husband, and they congratulated us when we got married. Being an atheist, issues of religion are pretty much infinitely meaningless noise as far as I'm concerned. And I'm very happy.

As for society not liking it. Society serves no purpose but to exist as a resource for me to exploit. Much like a cow or other domesticated animal really. You need to exercise a certain amount of care to avoid getting kicked or stepped on. But it's not like you worry about what your next cheeseburger approves of. I spend more time worry about whether my dog approves of me than about the opinions of society.

I also have no doubt that your family has had its share of strife and crisis and internal conflict. Because that's what humans do. No one is perfect, so why should some random genetic connection carry any particular weight?

At the end of the day, we are all going to dust. So would you rather spend your life being happy and honest about who and what you really are - or miserable for the sake of someone else's emotional complacency?

Todd

 

I have one thing to add to Chiroptera's post- The same percentages of gay people occur in populations all over the globe. Recently, scientists discovered a biological purpose for gay people- statistically speaking, the female relatives of gay people are more fertile than the female relatives of straight people. So, you are still contributing to the advancement of the bloodline, even though it isn't directly.

Self acceptance is a long, hard road, but like Todd said,

 

It isn't horrible or painful to all or probably by now even most families. Mine believes that it doesn't matter what your orientation is, and so they were fine with it, even proud of me for being brave enough not to hide when we live in a conservative area. It isn't shameful to everyone, nor should it be. I have a question for you- Why is continuing the bloodline the only thing that matters? Why is that so important that it eclipses everything else? There are plenty of other people who will reproduce.

For me, to live a "normal life" with "normal attractions", I would need to marry a man, a relationship I would most likely be completely miserable in, have sex with him, something I don't think i could do, and carry children, which would be horrible because of my gender. My life would be terrible, and I would almost certainly commit suicide. But the bloodline would continue. It might seem self- centered to you, but I really believe it's better to be who you are than someone you're not. Even if you choose to do that, and you had a son who turned out to be gay, the decision is his an I don't think that disowning him if he refused to comply would be right.

 

Sir, I'm operating under the assumption that you aren't going to track me down and out me. That being said here's what I have to say. This is a paragraph by paragraph answers to what you've said (some paragraphs may have been split due to different subject matters).

How would you feel if there was a major company overhaul and you were fired because your photos of straight people were disturbing the (now) majority of the LGBTQ workers? I don't know what your specific company's social environment is like, but if it's anything like what I imagine, people will avoid the people that they are uncomfortable around. If forced, they will adopt a...professional attitude?...towards the other person? Are your straight employees allowed to talk about their private lives? To what degree? Are you assuming that homosexuals, bisexuals, and nonstraight people in general are more likely to talk about their private lives with more detail? If you were found to have been in a one night stand, would you have been fired due to your having been in a sexual relationship? That said, I will now try to stop talking about your fired employee.

Sir, I fought with myself for 6 years, trying to make myself straight, which was exacerbated by the normal stresses of high school. That involved loathing, depression, terror, and a whole slew of emotions just associated with the fact that I didn't know who I was and who I liked. I didn't dare tell my parents, because who wouldn't be scared of this? When I finally realized it, I also realized that people like you would also almost always be there. Please, look back and think "What if I went through high school with a giant secret that I could tell nobody?" When I attend college next fall, I'm going to have to deal with these same stresses plus some. This will be accompanied by the fact that when I graduate, I will be put under discrimination if I ever come out. You're right. I'm more than gay. I'm more than just one culture too. I am Asian. I am American. No sentence, no book can never define who I am. And yet, all of these parts roll into being a part of me. I'm not going to say "I'm gay" the moment I meet somebody. I'm going to ask them "Hi, My name is ___, what's yours? How are you doing? You work where? That's nice!" and polite conversation will ensue hopefully. Yeah, if I get asked, I'll tell the truth. It's nothing for me to be embarrassed about, about embarrassing if I ask if your new suit is Savile Row or Kenneth Cole (two random brands I pulled off the internet).

Is it natural? Maybe. Some research puts Homo sapiens' homosexuality as genetic, some as home conditions, some in other ways. Frankly, I need to do more research on this to give a good answer. Look into iPS cells. There're some recent studies that show that my sperm can be turned back into an iPS which can then be turned into an egg cell, to be fertilized by somebody. So I can procreate. My child will be mine by blood. There's also IVF and adoption. Did not some of the kings of yore give up their thrones to pursue their interests? They had younger brothers and sisters who were more than willing to take the throne. If you're biggest thoughts are on bloodline, then look up the iPS cells.

Can I not be happy and satisfy myself as well as others? One of my biggest aspirations is to be a doctor, an occupation that requires me wanting to help people. Yes, I'll be making myself happy while helping others, is that so bad? "Do what you love, and you'll never have to work another day in your life." Obviously this option is closed to some of us. But to others, it shows so much opportunity, that it can turn a life around.

Some people are obsessed with the Greater Good. Others, not so much. Sir, you seem like you are looking out for the Greater Good of your family, which is admirable in many ways. Maybe your son is gay, and your words affect him in a way, and this might cause him to sway, and fall out of the family fray. Sorry, rhymes are fun. Would you reject him if he had an IVF baby who was half his and half of a female friend of his, even though he was gay? Sometimes we are swayed by our home environment, and you might prove yourself a more understanding father by telling your son that it's okay, and oh, say, asking your daughter or somebody else to take the line? That's what monarchs did in England and France and European monarchies a few centuries ago.

Your reason is why most of us are scared to come out to our families. I can go until my parents are dead due to natural causes then come out, but that is (hopefully) a thousand years of misery I wouldn't want to endure. As for reputation, is that New Year's Gala held by the Higherups really that important? I would rather have family than a reputation. Family relies on each other like ionic bonds between a halogen and Alkali metal, it's a strong relationship that can only be broken when forced to. I'm the son of immigrant parents. We have yet to "build" a name like the Winthrops or other people here since 1776. The pain you're talking about? That's the pain that the little boy feels when his parents tell him that he's a boy and not a girl. That's the pain the high school student feels when he can't tell his crush what he feels. That's the pain that Leelah Alcorn felt before she died. It's the pain of not being understood. It's the pain of us being as rejected.

First off, paedophilia is a whole 'nother story. The difference is that paedophilia, like rape and bestiality, is without consent. Gay sex is supposed to be consensual. If I spent the entirety of my life pretending I was white, would I be? No, I wouldn't. The same for all of us who identify as any other type besides heterosexual.

Finally, your usage of the word unorthodox. I'm going to assume you mean traditional. However, there have been non heterosexual acts that were normal during recorded history, from the culture centers of Greece, and India, to the aboriginal cultures of aboriginal Hawai'i and Fiji. Nonheterosexuality, if that's even a word, may not have been prevalent, but it was still there, and even celebrated in some cultures.

I'm honestly trying to refute your arguments without seeming offensive. If I come off as offensive, I don't mean it. Sir, everybody has the right to opinion. But, nobody has the right to be ignorant. I speak for myself. I don't speak for the entire LGBTQ community, as my sentiments may be different from others. I don't pretend to know everything, because I don't. I'm just me.

 

Why are you here? We already gave you several iterations of the answer you asked for.

In the southeast of your country, say about 50 years ago, it made white people uncomfortable to share water fountains with black people. Now today you celebrate MLK as a holiday. The gay person you fired made people uncomfortable...and? If people are much more than their sexual orientation, why did you fire him? I would have assumed that doing the work and being qualified for it were sufficient criteria for keeping a job.

Your original question is based on a false premise, that being gay is such a terrible thing; it isn't, but I don't have to tell you that, you engage in it from time to time yourself; can't be that terrible. There has to be a lot of numbing to deal with that kind of cognitive dissonance, between the attractions you revealed to us and your outward (and frankly odious) actions. No rocket scientist required to figure out why you are both miserable and depressed (the closet tends to do that, which is why we are trying to empty them).

This sounds very much like an exercise in trolling, I don't see any reason to continue the discussion.

 

Money can't buy happiness. Only being in touch with your emotions will make you happy. People who can stand by you during your lowest point is worth more than any gold or silver. You can make those friends without wealth. "The love of money is the root of all evil." I believe that is still true today. But anyways, you will never truly be happy in my opinion until you stop denying who you are unfortunately.

 

Assuming that your family's values are as archaic and ridiculous as you claim, then your problem is essentially that they don't truly love you and you believe that's just. You believe in an immaterial concept based around material excess is justifiable reason to let you be left unloved and emotionally neglected. You're neither fulfilled nor even convinced that you should have something to make you happy, because it's not measured in numbers and given a simple value.

You're unhappy because you're readily willing to accept that you don't matter as a person. Rather, you think of yourself as a vague concept, just as you regard the position you talk about and your family; they're not real things - healthy, productive relationships aren't what you're talking about here.

Money and feeling superior to others won't actually make you feel happy without having productivity and a genuine reason to live which you have set yourself.

Don't put gold leaf over your skin while letting your heart and mind wither. Your decision to deride and insult practically everyone else doesn't make you better or make you feel genuinely happy. If what you're saying is true, then you are a bully, if not, it means you're just a troll. The first would make you despicable, the second simply a nuisance. It makes you so much more vulgar and so much less worthy than the people whom you deem to be your inferiors.

 

Short on time and on an iPad so limited typing, but...

Did a quick google this AM and the state of Colorado not only legalized same sex marriage in October 2014 but is also one of the few states in the US to have a law on the books that forbids employment discrimination based on orientation. It's also the state where that bakery owner got sued for refusing to provide a wedding cake. Note that the ND law is not new.

For references google 'gay marriage in Colorado' or LGBT rights in Colorado' and look for the Wikipedia articles.

Bounce this against what the OP says in his posts on this and make of it what you will.

On a related note, if someone could be a dear and post some info about how surveys show that an increasing number of Americans support same sex marriage, I think that could be relevant re the OPs assertion that everyone disapproves of us.

Ok out of time.

Todd

 

Thank you, Todd,

I checked out Colorado's anti-discrimination laws and here is what I found:

http://www.transgenderlaw.org/ndlaws/ColoradoFAQ.pdf

To the OP, I can only assume that the guy you fired didn't sue your company's ass within the prescribed 60-day period, I wonder what your board would say if they found out you put your company at legal risk by firing that individual. To be gay is to be openly gay, otherwise, how would you know? To be openly gay is to talk about boyfriends or girlfriends (or in your mind, is it more "natural" for women to be gay?) and to have pictures of one's partner on a desk.