1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Secret love for best friend: now I need some advice.

Discussion in 'Coming Out Advice' started by wbool, May 10, 2015.

  1. wbool

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2015
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Amsterdam
    Gender:
    Male
    Hello everyone,

    This is going to be a long story I guess. English is not my native language, so I hope you can forgive any errors I make.

    A summary is given at the bottom of this text.

    I've known this friend since 2007. I am 23 now, he is 22. We met each other in psysics class when we were around 16 years old. We sat next to each other every lesson. I remember those lessons as hilarious - we were always laughing and making fun of everything. Nobody understood it, but we really laughed our asses of each time. Outside those lessons, I never saw him, and I never talked to him. We weren't really friends, we just knew each other. He was more of a loner. Everyone always thought he was weirdo. Actually, neither of us was very socially gifted.

    But I had some friends, and years later I would be part of a group of 4 people that hung out nearly every day together. It was a lot of fun. Sometimes we went out to a club. One day in 2012 (note: 5 years after physics class) I was on Facebook having a conversation with this friend from the physics class, and I decided to invite him to go out with the four of us.

    Back then, I thought I was straight.

    The physics friend, which from now on I will refer to as Jimmy, agreed to go out with us and we had a fun evening. Since then, I would invite him to come over to hang out with the others, every now and then. Today, Jimmy and I think that first evening was a revolution in both of our lives. If I wouldn't have done that, we wouldn't be best friends right now, or at least, that is what we tend to think.

    Time passed and the group of 4 friends started falling apart. Long story short: eventually, Jimmy and I were the only ones left. Since he didn't have any friends besides me, and we thought hanging out together was fun, we started hanging out just together, without other people. We were surprised that we could get along so well. It was 2013 now, and we decided to go on holiday together. We travelled throughout Western Europe together and it was fucking fantastic.

    Then we came home and went on with our lives, still hanging out together weekly. I started swimming with him every week. Back then we were just friends and I just saw him as a friend. More and more I would think of him as my best friend.

    Then, at the end of 2013, we went together on a three day trip to London, with two other friends (which used to be part of that group in 2012). It was then, on new year's eve, that I realised that I had fallen in love with Jimmy. Damn, how much I loved him. I felt like he needed me, I felt that I was the only one who could love him so much, who could protect him, who could make him truly happy. I thought, he was the most perfect person in the world. Never before had I met someone like him. He was such a sweet guy, so childlike, so innocent, and his smile was so bright, I loved every imperfection of him. Others would always think he was a weirdo, well I would love him for everything he was. The love that I felt - I had never felt anything like this before. Sure, I had been in love with several girls in the past. But nothing near as extreme as this.

    But it really wasn't fantastic at all. Love should be like heaven. However, to me this wasn't really the case. I felt terrible. I cried myself to sleep that evening. I don't exactly know why. It was mostly the fear of losing him. I didn't want to lose him, I really couldn't accept the idea of losing him. It frightened me so damn much. I wanted him to be with me forever, I wanted to fulfull the task of making him happy for the rest of his life. Yeah, I know, it's kind of twisted. But on the other hand I am also sort of proud to be able to love someone this much. But anyway, the first weeks of 2014 were complete hell. Never before had I ever expierenced these terrible feelings of fear of losing a loved one. Everyday I was só nervous. I couldn't eat, sleep or study. I couldn't do anything. My life was over. I screwed up my study. I just couldn't function properly. Every day he was on my mind - and he didn't have a clue. He thought we were just best friends. Sure, he loved me, as a friend. But that was it. He didn't think about me daily.

    I couldn't tell him. I couldn't tell anyone. Heck, I couldn't even tell myself. At first I couldn't really admit even to myself that I was in fact in love with him! I just tried to tell myself like: no, I'm not in love, I'm just a very loving person. Well, nice tried, wbool. If this wasn't me being in love, what else would be? After all, I had started fantasizing about him sexually, so how would one explain that, then? Well, anyway, I obviously thought I shouldn't be in love. I felt like this was going to ruin everything. And now, even today, I don't know if it will. Because he still doesn't know. Or at least I haven't told him.

    Furthermore it meant to me that I wasn't really as straight as I had always thought. Oh well. No big shame there, at least not to myself.

    But back to the beginning of 2014. Months I have fought this love and fear of losing him. But we remained best friends all along. Every week we would hang out together. One day of the week we would go swimming, one day we would hang out at my place, one day we would hang out at his place. And we would eat dinner together, go to restaurants, we would go to the cinema together frequently. Every week we would go to the club and dance. We would go to Italy together in May, and that summer, we went on holiday again for a few weeks, in Spain to be precise. And all this time I was silent about my deep feelings for him.

    What a mess. And it was so very confusing. Because I didn't really know what his sexual orientation was. He had never been with a girl before. Yes, he had kissed a girl once or twice. Nothing special. He had been in love with 2 girls in his life. I know that was hard for him. But when the second girl offered him to have sex with her, he denied. And other girls have tried (according to him) to approach him sexually, but he always remained distance towards them. And if they came too close to him, he would banish them out of his life and he would hate them. Doesn't this sound a little bit weird for a straight guy? But we mustn't forget - he is just socially awkward, right? And people always think he is gay. His walk is kind of feminine, he is always so damn happy, he has a high voice, you know, just typical gay things.

    But he has always denied being gay. In fact, he always likes to use the term 'gay' in a negative way. "I don't like that shirt - it is a bit gay." and frequently uses the word 'faggot': "Haha, they lost the game! Fucking faggots!!!"

    Still, how many times have gay men approached him in the club, thinking he was gay? It is rather hilarious, actually. One time a man pushed his finger against Jimmy's butt, saying "I bet you like that!!! Don't you!"

    But on the other hand, his interests are rather manly. He likes to drive his car and is a pretty agressive driver. He wants to learn to drive the motorcycle. He is a huge gaming fan, really plays every game in existence. He doesn't like soccer, like other guys, but he does play badminton with his dad and used to do archery. Things like that.

    But then again, when he looked at me, his eyes were always so bright. It really looked like he loved me intensely. The way he looks at me, still today, it is as if his eyes tell me: "I fucking LOVE you. You are FANTASTIC!" And I feel like he doesn't look at other people like that.

    And every friday evening when we're at my place, we touch each other in a subtle innocent way. We play the piano and he touches my hands. When we watch a movie, we lay against each other on the couch. Isn't that a bit too close for just friends?

    So he's always said that he was straight, and thought gay is grosssss and ewwww. Fagsssss. I never really reacted enthousiastic when he used those terms.

    He must have got the message.

    A few weeks ago I couldn't resist checking his phone when he was taking a piss and he left his phone on the desk. I looked at his firefox history and typed 'gay' in the address bar. A google search came up: "I think my friend is gay". Apparently, he had searched on google to I think my friend is gay. Damn. And yes, there was porn in the history - but not gay porn. So. He must be straight. I guess. I don't know. I don't want him to be straight. I want him to love me. But it seems that he is. He is probably straight. But I just don't understand it AT ALL. His behaviour is so confusing. How can he be straight??? Yeah, gay faggots are gross, but lets press our bodies against each other while watching movies! Let's walk next to each other and let our fingertips subtly touch each other more than a hundred times while walking! It really isn't just me - he does it too. And when I touch him, I have also noticed, he doesn't wan to move, so the touching will be longer.

    Isn't that fucking extremely confusing? Why the HELL would a straight man do this??? WHY. And why would you do this, if you know, or at least THINK that you best friend is gay? And you still go on touching him, subtly, innocently? Every time we get the chance, our feet touch, our legs are against each other, our arms touch. What the fuck. Whyyyy? And - oh, well, you get the point. I could go on for hours talking about that.

    Oh my god, how I love him.

    Alright, I must say, he doesn't álways touch me in that way. Sometimes he suddenly avoids the touching. Like, first we touch each other for an hour and then suddenly he changes his position, and puts an end to it. Sometimes I have suspected that he would do this to prevent or to hide a boner, but maybe that's just wishful thinking of me. I have become a king in wishful thinking, I guess.

    So now comes the point where I really need advice.

    Suddenly, I really feel like telling him. He must be straight, because he watches exclusively straight porn (unless he always watches gay porn in incognito mode but I highly doubt that because you could easily watch áll porn in incognito mode so meh).

    No, wait, I don't want to tell him that I am in love with him. I absolutely don't want to tell him that. I want to tell him, that I am now pretty sure that I am not fully straight. And that I hope that he doesn't mind. I hope he still wants to go on vacation with me this summer, and that he won't flee, and leave me.

    I think, sooner or later it will come out anyway. So why not just tell him that I am somewhat bi. I would want to tell him that I know that I am not straight but that I am NOT in love with him. Because I think the last part would possibly freak him out. Think about the girls he had banned out of his life because they seemed to approach him sexually.

    Last night we went out again. I tried not to touch him. He touched me more than I touched him. Well, enough about the touching.

    How the hell should I tell him that I am not fully straight? Without him thinking that I am in love with him? I was thinking about telling him something like: yeah, I have been confused some time about it. I even thought maybe I was in love with you or something. But I know that I am not. Yeah, I am somewhat more cuddly than other males, but well, now you know that is because I'm bi, so I can cuddle everyone. But I just want to be friends. And I know that you are straight. I know that. And I hope you don't mind that I am not.

    I've thought about this a lot. But anyway, I really could use some advice. I hope someone can help me.

    If you have really taken the time to read all of my bullshit, then I am very thankful. It has indeed been a long story.


    TL;DR:
    - In 2007 I met a guy called Jimmy in physics class, we didn't really become friends but got along pretty well.
    - In 2012 I invited him to go out with me and my friends, since then I became good friends with him.
    - In 2013 we started really hanging out together a lot, just the two of us. We became best friends and went on holiday together.
    - Even though his sexual orientation seems very confusing and he hasn't ever had sex with anyone, he seems to be straight.
    - At the end of 2013 I started falling in love with him: apparently I was able to fall in love with a guy - no one knows this until this day.
    - Now, 2015, I feel like telling him that I am not fully straight but I don't want him to know that I am in love with him!

    Still TL;DR? Alright:
    - I am in love with my best friend who seems straight and doesn't know I am not straight and I want to tell him I am not fully straight but he can't know I'm in love with him what the hell should I do?

    Thank you in advance.
     
  2. Awesome

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2015
    Messages:
    474
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    In college in Massachusetts, from Pennsylvania
    Gender:
    Female
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    I read the entire post. A few thoughts:

    If he is willing to be that close to you, even after suspecting that you are gay, I don't think he has a problem with you not being straight.

    I don't think his use of gay slurs was meant to be hateful. He probably just picked it up from his social environment. If he used such language around you when he suspected you were gay, it might have been his attempt at reassuring you that he doesn't think you are gay, in order to calm your nerves.

    I think that it would be best for you to come clean and have a full conversation with him. The fact that he searched about his friend possibly being gay shows that he is concerned. I think that you would both be more comfortable without hiding concerns from each other.
     
  3. wbool

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2015
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Amsterdam
    Gender:
    Male
    Thank you for your reply!

    Wow, I hadn't thought of that possibility @ his use of gay slurs. Yes that could very well be. Although I have noticed that lately he is using it less often. It is as if he wants to signal to me that he has no problems with gay people. For example, last week he said something like. "Why would I want to be in heaven with several virgin men?" then he corrected himself: "old men". It sounded like he meant to say that he thinks old men are gross but young men aren't, even though he wouldn't want to do anything with them. And this other time he said "Everyone seemed to be in love with this guy. I didn't really get that - I am not really fond of curly hair." ... as if the hairstyle was the criterium, not the gender. I don't know, it feels like he doesn't know exactly what signal he wants to give me. Maybe something like: "I don't know that you're gay, but if you would be, I wouldn't mind. But I'm not gay."

    I know he hates the fact that people often think he is gay. It really hurts his feelings. He told me one time that he didn't like that. I answered that I don't understand why people think being gay is a bad thing. I talked about it pretty passionately. He knows I've had some gay friends. He asked me when I said I feel bad about the negativity towards gay sexuality: "... because of other people, right?" as if he was checking. I answered somewhat vaguely, on purpose.

    I wonder when he googled that.

    One time in february I told him I loved him. As in: "I love you so much!" he said: "I love you too!" we hugged. It was weird. I told him several times how much I loved him, how important he is to me as a person, and how I want him to be in my life forever. He said to me the same. He said that he feels the same about me. But we weren't really talking in a romantic way. I was so fucking stupid to end the conversation by saying: "But yeah. I really love you. No homo." Back then, I didn't think I would ever want him to know that I love him more than just as a friend. But we were drunk that evening.

    I am scared that if I tell him I am not fully straight, that he will remember that evening that I told him how much I love him. And then he will 'know' that I'm in love with him.

    But I don't know. I'm overanalysing.

    Again, thanks for reading and caring.
     
  4. bubbles123

    bubbles123 Guest

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2015
    Messages:
    934
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    New England, US
    If I were you, I wouldn't tell him you like him right away. Maybe try to feel things out more in terms of what his sexuality might be. Sometimes when people are bullied/taunted for being gay and they really end up being gay, they may be more inclined to be in denial about it. This isn't always the case, though, but it's a possibility.
    Also, try to see how comfortable he is about LGBT issues and all that. I know you said he was even though he uses gay as an insult. But maybe try to bring stuff up more. Like the other commenter said, if he suspected you of being gay and is still comfortable being close to you, that's good. Perhaps you could come out to him as being bi. I would just avoid even hinting at you liking him, as this could scare him (even if he could be gay himself, a guy liking him would probably scare him if he's in denial). Maybe if he is gay or bi, seeing you come out to him might get him thinking and maybe one day he'll come out to you. Or maybe he might start being more flirty with you. Just try not to jump to conclusions or overthink his actions. Basically, just try and take things slow, which I know must be really hard since you've felt this way for a while, but I think at this stage, just outright telling him may be a bad move. Good luck to you! I hope this helped!
     
  5. Yossarian

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2013
    Messages:
    1,814
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Florida
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    You can love somebody dearly as a friend, but not be ready to have sexual interactions with them. You can also want to have sexual interactions with someone and not be in love with them at all. What do you want to do with your friend? Do you want a sexual relationship with him or do you just want him to be comfortable holding you and cuddling with you? Do you want to live together with him as your life partner?

    Instead of focussing on labels, because if you can stick a "gay" label on him, then that implies A, B, C etc., focus instead on talking to him and tell him what you are feeling about him and what you want from him. Maybe he will respond and tell you how he feels about you. You don't have to label yourself "GAY" as though that will tell him that you fit all the conventional stereotypes and then he will know how you feel about him. Just talk to him and tell him directly what you want to happen between the two of you. IF he doesn't want the same things you do, then you will have to accept that he is thinking of you as a best friend, not as a partner, at the present time. If you do tell him how you feel, he may need some time to think about it an consider his own feelings before he is ready to tell you. Give him the time to do that. After all that you have described, I don't think you are going to get some kind of negative surprise reaction from him, but he may not have been as intensely thinking about all of this as you have about him, so he might need to do some thinking and emotional catching up with you, if he is even ready to let himself do that at this point. Both of you are old enough to consider what is going on seriously and decide what you want to do. If you are solidly identifying yourself as gay, as in sexually oriented towards men, then you really need to get this situation with him resolved, and if he is NOT interested in you in that way, then you need to "move on" from this romantic obsession with him, and transfer him to "Best Friend Forever" status, then try to start meeting some other gay men to share your affections with; it will be the best thing for both of you. I hope it works out the way you want it to, but it is probably not going to happen until you make it happen, one way or the other.
     
  6. Billy the kid

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2015
    Messages:
    232
    Likes Received:
    30
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Well I think you should have a few drinks with him and tell him you need to get something off your chest. Tell him you feel like your the only one you feel comfortable talking with about your personal life. Ask him if he would still remain close friends no matter what you tell him. Then tell him you think you may be bisexual and ask him what he thinks about that. Maybe ask him if he has ever felt that way. Ask him if he has anything against that. Ask him if he would still enjoy going on trips with you despite the fact. Then maybe ask him what he thinks about his own sexuality. I think he is gay because I googled the same " I think my friend is gay search " hoping to find clues that my friend was gay so I could come out to him. Tell him that he can tell you anything and you wouldn't think any differently about him, in fact you think it would make your friendship even stronger. If the conversation seems like it's going good ask him what he thinks about sleeping together or experimenting with each other? Tell him if it doesn't feel right then we can say at least we gave it a try or something like that? Just take it slow and get a feel for how the conversation is going. Oh and by the way my friend ended up being bisexual and I got drunk and asked him if he wanted to have sex. I said something like friends with benefits and he said he wasn't into that, but we remain very good friends to this day. Love is friendship set on fire. These are just suggestions, maybe it will stir up some of your own ideas. Good luck!
     
  7. Gymskirtboy

    Gymskirtboy Guest

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2015
    Messages:
    120
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Stafford, UK
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    It might seem a bit suicidal to your relationship, but you need to just tell him your gay and you're in love with him. Its killing you the position you're in and you need a way out, good or bad I think.
     
  8. Manitoban

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2014
    Messages:
    279
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Winnipeg, MB, Canada
    I read the entire post and I would say that if I were in your situation I would let him know that you're bisexual. I think Billy the kid had some good ideas. Sit down for a serious talk. Most good friends want to open up more to you after you say something like that. It would give you an opportunity to ask those questions without it seeming weird.

    I would however suggest not to indicate your attractions to him unless it seems he would actually be okay with that. Many straight guys, if he is indeed straight, that are okay with people being bi/gay also don't like the thought that guys like them...

    As for if he's gay/bi or not? Stereotypes I don't think are all that useful. Sometimes they are bang on for some people other times the most macho hockey player is gay... As for the touching thing. It's unusual for straight guys, but I've known two straight guys that were really good friends to cuddle all the time. However I'm speaking from Canada where people are rather conservative about touching one another and private space is a very big deal. So how well that translates there I don't know. Closest I've been to the Netherlands was Berlin so I can't help much there.

    Anyway hope you can at least be honest with him about your attraction to guys and girls openly.

    Good luck and keep us informed. If you need anymore advice I'm sure people will have an open ear here.
     
  9. wbool

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2015
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Amsterdam
    Gender:
    Male
    Sigh, I typed a whole reply and accidentally deleted everything by pressing backspace while the textbox wasn't activated so the browser went back to the last page visited.

    Anyway, again many thanks for your replies, I really appreciate it a lot!

    @ bubbles123:

    He has indeed been bullied in school when he was young and they often called him gay. By the way, that night when we were drunk and we told each other that we loved each other, he also said that he didn't like to be touched, because as a child people always had broken his trust or something. Friends had left him for no reason, people whom he would trust suddenly treated him like shit. As a result, he has difficulty with being touched, or touching other people, even with his parents and brothers, he tends to avoid it. This is what he told me that evening. The week after we would go to the cinema and normally we would always sit against each other with our shoulders, but this time he kept distance, and there was no physical contact at all.
    But the week after, he went to my place, and suddenly his behaviour was completely opposite to the day at the cinema. He would grab every opportunity to touch me, it was so weird. Why would you do this if you 1) don't like your friend in that way and 2) you aren't gay and 3) you suspect your friend is and 4) you hate physical contact because of social trauma. It feels like he must have sóme feelings, or maybe he knows that I have feelings for him, and he feels sorry for me? I don't know.

    I shouldn't tell him right away indeed. It would be too shocking and he wouldn't know how to react. I don't want to put him under such an amount of stress. Maybe I'll indeed try to bring up some LGBT stuff more. I think I will tell him I am bi eventually. Taking things slow, well yes it isn't very easy, but I'm used to it, lol.

    @ Yossarian:
    At least I want to remain best friends with him, forever. Risking the friendship feels like risking my life. And yeah, if he wants to be more than friends, of course I would want that, too. But if I'm really not the right person for him romantically, then I also don't want to be in a romantic relationship with him, because it wouldn't make him happy, and I want him to be. In that case, just being friends would be perfect. But of course it would hurt a lot if I were to see him with a girl.

    I really can't just tell him that I'm in love with him. Indeed, I think he wouldn't really react surprised in a bad way, but I think he would feel véry uncomfortable, and the friendship would be ruined forever, because everytime we would see each other, it would be fucking awkward as hell.

    @ Billy the Kid:
    You're right about the drinks I guess, although we drink every weekend. Thank you for your advice, I think telling him he is the only one I feel comfortable with talking about stuff that's so personal, is a very good idea. Do you really think he is gay, just because he googled "I think my friend is gay"? To be honest, I have, just like you, also googled that same phrase. But besides that I have googled other things as well, like "In love with best friend" / "I like my friend gay" et cetera. And by the way, he watches straight and lesbian porn, focusing mainly on the girls. He also has a specific taste in girls. He likes them small, young, with tiny titties. Someone who knows this well what kind of girls he prefers, really can't be gay, I think. But maybe bi? I don't know. How many bisexuals are there anyway? I really don't know. Does anyone have a clue about male bisexuality? I've read the weirdest shit about it.

    @ Gymskirtboy:

    That does sound suicidal. I really don't have the guts to tell him just like that, but I see your point.
     
  10. wbool

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2015
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Amsterdam
    Gender:
    Male
    @ Manitoban:

    Thanks, I'll keep you informed. I think he would feel very uncomfortable knowing that I have feelings for him, so I won't tell him that. I'll just try to tell him I'm bisexual. I hope he doesn't automatically assume it means that I'm gay. I'll have to be very clear about it. But it won't be easy...

    I'm still just so scared that he will slowly ditch me.
     
  11. Manitoban

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2014
    Messages:
    279
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Winnipeg, MB, Canada
    Ah yes, I was worried about this too. I only have a couple friends and I was really worried my best friend would do that. He was always going on about "f*g" this and that and would make fun of his brother for acting "gay." shockingly he was probably going most okay with it and our friendship got even closer. But I wasn't romantically interested in him.

    I imagine as others have pointed out that if he suspects and is still comfortable around you he is probably fine. Also imagine like here in the Netherlands it's now a rarity to find someone who actually is concerned by LGBT people enough to drop a friendship.
     
  12. Billy the kid

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2015
    Messages:
    232
    Likes Received:
    30
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Well I was basing my assumption on him being gay or maybe more likely bi on more than the Google search. It was also the touching and the turning down sexual requests from girls, leaning against each other on the couch etc.. People asking him if he is gay. You didn't get into detail on the lesbian porn so who knows? I would think however if you came out to him on being bisexual he we be accepting. You will never know if you don't discuss it with him. It is ultimately your decision so good luck.
     
  13. wbool

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2015
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Amsterdam
    Gender:
    Male
    @ Manitoban:

    You're right, people in the Netherlands are quite tolerant towards gays. But under the surface there's still a lot of aversion. I can't quite explain it but even here the majority of people 'secretly' still thinks the idea of two men kissing is gross. Of course I wouldn't deny the fact that the Netherlands is one of the best places in the world to be gay (if not the best). But last week for example there was an article in a dutch newspaper about the fact that the Dutch claim to be pro LGBT, however this acceptance suddenly disappears completely when they see two guys kissing. Conclusion: people want to accept it but deep down they are still scared of it.
    Still I am thankful when I compare it to other countries!

    Anyway, I know Jimmy isn't like the others, but he, too, is victim of the homophobic macho culture: being called gay frequently in negative way has forced him to act like he thinks homosexuality is gross. Sure, I believe he doesn't really hate the gays, and he doesn't really think it's gross. He even stated once, when we were together in Spain, that one of his friends in high school had come out one day. Jimmy said someting like: "How do you actually know what you are? [concerning sexual orientation] ... Or how do you know what your child is? I already knew when I was six years old what I liked..." So I asked him: "Really? What was it then?" He: "Women!" Later he said "Why would people hate someone for being gay? That's plain ridiculous. I really don't care at all."
    So, the sexuality really isn't a probem, I think. But I'm a scared motherfucker.

    I think the problem would rather be him knowing that his best friend (being it a man or woman) is in love with him. I know he thinks that when you love someone and he/she doesn't love you back, you should distance yourself from that person. And if someone loves you, but you don't love them back, you should distance yourself from them as well as it is the best for both. So... I really don't want that to happen!

    Anyway, I really write too much here, I hope it's not annoying.

    @ Billy the Kid:

    I think you're right: he will be accepting. I don't know if he is gay, and you're right, the touching is very confusing and there are several things indicating that he might be gay... I should just tell him I am bisexual. But really never is the right moment. Today I thought about telling him. But it just didn't feel right to suddenly get all serious and say something like "hey, I really have to tell you something highly important..."
    We're so fucking awkward always. We always try to avoid seriousness, we always laugh about everything. Maybe first have some drinks then.
     
  14. Billy the kid

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2015
    Messages:
    232
    Likes Received:
    30
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Yes love is a powerful emotion, I read a book entitled LOVE by Leo Buscaglia, it was pretty good. It was all about the different aspects of love. It says if you feel something tell someone how you feel. This love you have for your friend started out as just wanting to joke around in school with him, into that heaven like feeling you talked about. It is hard to want to love someone more than a friend and wondering if they would feel the same way. Not wanting to loose that friendship because of it. I read a quote the other day that says " If I can't love you as a lover, I will love you as a friend." You should at least express your love for him as a friend and see what his feelings are about it? I am not sure what point I am trying to make. I guess I am trying to give you conversation ideas, but also to make you think about being able to remain friends if he is not gay. Just another angel to look at it from I guess? Talk to you later.
     
  15. Yossarian

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2013
    Messages:
    1,814
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Florida
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Billy, Leo Buscaglia recorded a number of programs on PBS quite a number of years ago, before he passed away. He repeatedly stressed that "The time to tell someone you love them is right NOW.", because you never know how much time on Earth each of you will have. I don't know if any of those lectures have been captured and put on YouTube or anywhere else where they can be seen today, but he was quite a good speaker and very good about getting the point across that if you love someone you should tell them so. They don't have to love you back the same way in order for your love of them to be valid and honest.

    PS I just checked YouTube and found many of his lectures there; listen to some of them and enjoy his message "from the horse's mouth".
     
    #15 Yossarian, May 13, 2015
    Last edited: May 13, 2015
  16. wbool

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2015
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Amsterdam
    Gender:
    Male
    Thanks Billy, that's a nice one: "If I can't love you as a lover, I will love you as a friend."
    If he's not gay and wants to remain friends, that would be fine with me. And, well, just another angel, he's actually the only angel I know :slight_smile:. But I also liked what you said earlier: "Love is friendship set on fire." This is definitely true in my case.
    I have made it very clear how much I love him as a friend. He has made pretty clear to me how much he loves me too. We would always tell each other how happy we were to have met each other. He once said something like: "And then I met you. And since then every day is a fun day!" Aww.
     
  17. Billy the kid

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2015
    Messages:
    232
    Likes Received:
    30
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Yes thanks yossarian I have checked some of them out! So it's the weekend wbool so maybe go out for a couple drinks and start a conversation with your friend?
     
  18. Christiaan

    Christiaan Guest

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2012
    Messages:
    745
    Likes Received:
    1
    Eh, you'd be surprised at how open straight guys can be to having a gay guy as a friend. You are in a country where I have heard that parents disown their children for NOT being gay; just kidding, but really, you're in Amsterdam, dude. I understand it's the most gay-friendly place on the planet. If you were in Saudi Arabia, Russia or certain parts of the USA, I would tell you differently, but your friend is educated and intelligent. Give him credit, and have some faith. He will understand. He might even feel affectionate toward you for trusting him that way, and you might discover a deeper level of friendship with him, even if he isn't gay or bi. Just be cool, and trust him. He is your friend.
     
    #18 Christiaan, May 15, 2015
    Last edited: May 15, 2015
  19. wbool

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2015
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Amsterdam
    Gender:
    Male
    Hi, a little update. Nothing special has happened yet.

    I've discussed all this with my cello teacher. We have a very close relationship. She knows all the details of my private life, and I know a lot about her, too. She herself is a bisexual, and she has a girlfriend. Also, she has two kids, and their father is gay, living together with his boyfriend nowadays. Thus, my cello teacher is pretty concerned about homosexuality etc and understands it very well.

    Anyway, she gave me the advice NOT to tell him that I am bisexual. Yeah, I was kind of surprised, too. She also gave some reasons:
    1. I don't know what will happen if I tell him. When she was young, she had kind of the same problem, she had a crush on her best friend and she told that (female) friend that she was a bisexual, and then everything went wrong.
    2. I shouldn't burden him with that information. I am responsible for my own feelings, including sexual orientation, and no-one has anything to do with that.
    3. Sexual orientation isn't really important and it shouldn't be.

    I understand her view, but I'm not quite sure if I agree. I mean, yeah, of course, it's a huge risk, but I do trust him, for he is my best friend and vice versa. However, I don't agree to what she said about the responsibility. Yeah sure I am responsible for my own life, but why can't I just be open about it? And, last but not least, sexual orientation shouldn't indeed be important - therefore, it shouldn't be a problem telling him!

    But it is. And I've thought about it. I appreciate her advice, but I think I still want to tell him at léást that I'm not quite straight. I've even set a deadline - May 29. Friday in 9 days.

    This friday wouldn't be a good idea because his birthday is this week and the timing would be all kinds of wrong.

    Any thoughts?

    Btw, Christiaan, you're right, he would be open to it. But maybe he would feel uncomfortable and the friendship wouldn't be the same after I tell him and everything would be ruined. Well, we'll see. Isn't Christiaan a typically dutch name by the way?
     
    #19 wbool, May 20, 2015
    Last edited: May 20, 2015
  20. Billy the kid

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2015
    Messages:
    232
    Likes Received:
    30
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Everybody will have their own opinion on what is the right or wrong thing to do. Ultimately it is your decision on what to do. Being bisexual is who you are, it is a part of the real you and it is your decision on who you tell and when. You will always be the person you are, the person that everybody knows you as, you would just be being honest about your sexuality. It sounds like your relationship with your friend is very good, and I don't think you want to lose that. I think he would be accepting of the fact you are bisexual. The problem is that you have a crush on him and if he is not gay or bisexual you need to be able to accept that and remain friends. If you come out to him you could maybe ask him "what about you, do you consider yourself completely straight?" If he does ask him if he would still accept you as your best friend? Then you would have to decide if you want to pursue a romantic/sexual relationship with someone else perhaps through a dating service or gay bar. Maybe he would go to a gay bar with you for support? I don't know these are all just hypothetical ideas. I am behind you on whatever you decide to do. Just make sure you are happy with yourself. If it doesn't turn out the way you want life goes on, it has to. Good luck my friend!