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We've fooled around and now he's hiding

Discussion in 'Coming Out Advice' started by Scotslad1987, May 14, 2015.

  1. Scotslad1987

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    Ok, so my story's a little messed up, but here goes. I met this guy in December, a mutual friend of a friend. I was straight, he was straight. But we had this instant connection, we are incredibly similar in so many ways and we just clicked. We went on like 5 nights out with a group of friends and we were always drunk having a laugh and being the best of buds. On a 6th night out there was just me, him and the mutual friend. We got so drunk that we spent about 4 hours constantly just making out with eachother, me and the new friend not the mutual friend. Totally unexpected as we were both straight, however he initiated it and I just went with it. The next day this new friend I'd only known for like 2 weeks text me and asked me if I remember anything about the night before, I don't get black outs so I remembered, but I wasn't sure I should say out loud. He kept goading me into remembering, I asked what he remembered and he teasingly said he remembers us kissing - I told him that we were making out pretty full on, he wasn't too fussed he said it was all in fun. A week later we were at a house party and he kept staring at me, we were both tipsy but nowhere near as drunk as we were- but we ended up going upstairs, just to sit and chat and have a laugh, listen to some music. We ended up making out again, only this time we got into bed, clothes still on but we did more than just kiss, we were touching and groping eachother, he was teasing about his sensitive kneck and how he gets turned on when i kiss it. Nothing much happened that night. But the next day, he text saying neither of us were that drunk, we couldn't very well deny it or chalk it up to drunkeness. I agreed and asked what this meant then, he wanted us to meet up and go a drive to discuss it... so i picked him up we found a lonely back road and then he grabbed my head, SOBER this time and pulled me towards him, we were making out in the car, we moved to the back seats were we both undid our jeans and started wanking eachother off. He then offered to go down on me first, we sucked eachother off, then I dropped him off home. We then arranged a night out where the entire time he was texting me in the club telling me how much he wanted me and how hard he was for me- We arranged a hotel room, sober again and we got completely naked, both nervous, clueless as we had never done this before. Came time to go "all the way", he was nervous, i fingered him a little and then only just entered him, not fully, we were both uncomfortable at this point so we went to sleep but the next morning he woke up and began wanking me again and kissing me. We left the hotel and then spent the week texting eachother saying how much of a good time we had. The following week he spent the night at my house, it was a little awkward but we were both fine. Another drunken night out followed were we ended up back at his, with another friend tagging along. We sort of got 'caught' making out and fondling by the other friend, so we just went to bed, the same bed, we kissed and he fell asleep in my arms, but not before whispering in my ear that he loved me. The next day I left for work, the other friend spoke to him about what he saw, we chalked it up to drunken banter. I arranged to go back to his the following night, were we'd be alone and he was off, almost cold with me. The night after that we went out and he was all over this girl that he previously said he didn't like, we went back to his, but he brought her along and he was all over her, clinging and desperate and in front of me. He knew seeing that hurt me. I left devastated, not knowing why cause we were only having some fun and neither of us identified as being gay- I know stupid considering what we were doing. The next day he apologised for what he did, like a real heartfelt apology. But the following week, he went out of his way to end things with me, in a cruel way- then slept with the girl from the previous week. He left it two days then told me thats what he'd done and that he felt guilty. but the weeks passed by, this girl that was supposed to be a one night thing was a 2 or 3 times thing, he began to distance himself from me, but would still playfully touch my leg and kiss on nights out. He was "cheating" on me with her, they were meeting up and he knew i hated her. Things got worse and we exchanged angry texts and he officially said to stop us. But then he kissed me on another night out, drunk he broke down and said he didn't want it to stop so we danced around the subject for a bit, but he rarely speaks to me and has chosen to surround himself with people I'm not comfortable being around. He's made him and that girl "official" and on nights out he deliberately flaunts her in front of me- but then kisses me and teases me. I've asked him what he's doing, but he refuses to answer. I spoke to someone else, without actually telling them the real situation, they said they've always though he was gay and that he "secretly has a crush on me" and he doesn't want to be gay so he's hiding behind the girl, he's distancing himself from me because I'm the one that makes him feel this way, he went so far as to admit ignoring my texts so I'd hate him- he wanted me to hate him so I'd walk away. But then when i asked him to face up to things, he agreed that we'd have to let us play out, but he wasn't doing anything to allow that - still holding back pulling away and still having sex with his "girlfriend". I called him on it again and he wouldn't answer anything, now he's saying he just doesn't feel that way about me anymore- which i could accept if he wasn't then kissing me and touching me after saying it. Is he hiding behind that girl? (who is built like a builder) Is he denying and minimalising everything about us because he doesn't want it. He said things got too real for him- I'm assuming this was when he whispered "I Love You" not realising that the fun had grown into something else. But too real? What does that even mean? How do I get him to face up to this. He's now met that girl's mother, he's taken her to meet his parents- He hasn't been happy, not the way he was when he was with me, not even close since he started seeing this girl, he's not being himself at all and he's gone from paying me compliments and reveling in our similarities to dissing me and being offended when people make comparisons- Is he hiding from his feeling for me by distancing himself? He keeps company with people i don't ant to be around so i wont be around him....He keeps saying we'll need to discuss things to get our friendship back on track, but he never does discuss things, he said we'll play out, eventually, as though he's stringing me along or keeping his options open. The thing is, I have no interest sexually in other guys, NONE, I still really like girls, but the connection with him is overwhelming and I just need him to stop running from it and face up to it. Am I wrong? It's like he started all this, got me on board then dumped all of it on me and jumped ship out of fear. The morning after he said he loved me and had the talk with the friend that "caught" us, he started to change, the term "it got real" started to get used. Our social group aren't the most open minded, I think when he was introduced to me, he latched on because I am open minded about everything and he hadn't had people around him like that. But getting caught and realising he was developing those feelings, he's afraid, buckling under social pressures and now I'm being horrible by texting and always bringing it up- but its the unanswered questions, the ones he just refuses to speak, literally. He knows he wants to continue but he doesn't want to want to because of what that friend said that morning and now he has this "girlfriend" I genuinely believe is a convenience, she doesn't make him happy, he's content, its easy to live a lie. Everytime I ask him what we are/were he says its complicated- but then he's always kissing me and teasing me and he taunts me with her like he enjoys seeing me jealous, he said it made me cute. He's messing with my head, but I want to know is he doing it all just to hide from what he's feeling or am I just hoping he is? Any input would be greatly appreciated. :grin: I should mention that two weeks ago he agreed to a hotel room to talk and we didn't do anything, I mean we kissed for like a minute, then he pulled away, saying it just didn't feel right because we'd just spent most of the night arguing, but when I moved my hand down his body, he was ready for action after my kiss, its like he pulled away to avoid getting to into...
     
  2. Thirdtimecharm

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    Scotslad1987,
    In reading your story I found so many similarities to a situation I had gone through with my best friend growing up. Her and I had this attraction to one another, could not explain it if I tried. We both were seemingly straight (although some people thought she was a lesbian) and just had a good time being with one another. We got really close very quickly and she totally freaked out. We did not make out or have any physical contact like you and your friend have, but we shared alot of things emotionally together. She suddenly freaked out on me, told me that we got too close too fast and that she needed space. She began to be mean to me and push me away...she called me names and put me down every chance she got. This process, this awful process between her and I, the push and pull, the closeness, then pushing away continued for over two decades. I believe my friend did this to me because I am the one who made her feel things for me..."made" her look at me the way she did, want me the way she did, flirt with me the way she did and it scared the hell out of her. To me it is obvious that your friend is scared to death. That you make him feel a way that he has never experienced before and your a man and so is he...It is hard for some people to deal with their sexuality esp if they are fighting it like my friend and I believe your friend is. I think your friend wants to be with you and him being with this girl is a way to be "normal", be what he thinks he is supposed to be and to try and get away from you and or make you angry so that you leave him alone, that you stop caring about him as I think some people think it is easier for them to make the other person the monster than for them to accept that they are the monster themselves. Point being, I believe that it is obvious that your friend has strong feelings for you and it scares him...I completely understand. The kind of attraction that you two have for one another does not happen often and when it is between two people of the same sex, two people who are supposed to be straight, well it is very very scary. He is obviously hiding. He is running scared and he is trying to fight it so hard, but cannot hide his behavior towards you. Words are words. Actions speak louder than words. He is messing with your head because it is easier to do that than for him to accept his feelings for you. Please be careful my friend, this coming from someone who dealt with a relationship like this (without the physical contact) for several years. My friend completely broke my heart over and over and I allowed it. Your love and affection deserves to be given to someone who is willing to stand up for your love and be proud of being with you...Take your power back. Don't let him control the situation. You have a saw in what happens. Lay out your boundaries, protect your heart. Good Luck!
     
  3. bubbles123

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    With the way he's acting, I definitely think he's into you and in denial about his feelings because he's afraid of them. That's just my opinion, but especially since he continues to kiss you and touch you. If he is in denial about it, him having a girlfriend is like a cover for him, a security most likely so that he can prove to others (and maybe to himself) that he isn't gay. Whether he likes her or not, he definitely seems to be into you. He's probably being rude to you because he doesn't know how else to deal with it and maybe a part of him still wants to hang on to you and the only way he knows how to convey that message without it "getting too real" is by teasing you like that. I hope this helps. Good luck to you.
     
    #3 bubbles123, May 14, 2015
    Last edited: May 14, 2015
  4. PatrickUK

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    I'm fairly certain this prompted the change in his attitude. Without knowing how the conversation went with the friend who caught you both together, it's difficult to fully understand how "real" it became for him, but I would suggest it was the deciding factor. Even so he seems incapable of avoiding contact with you altogether - it's almost as though he can't resist kissing you, so you must resist him. If you allow him to kiss you with little or no reaction, it will wind you into an increasingly tangled web. If he really wants to be with you he needs to confront the reality of his feelings and he will never do that if he can have a little bit of a kiss or grope with you on a night out, before returning to his "normal" routine with the girlfriend, who, I might add, is also caught up in the tangled web.

    In his mind, he may believe that he can recover his heterosexuality because you didn't go all the way together. Maybe he thinks that dating and having sex with a woman again is a 360 degree about turn that will be enough to wipe the slate clean. In reality, it doesn't work like that, but he wouldn't be the first guy to imagine it to be so.

    What about you? After this, do you think you can wipe the slate clean and go back to dating women, without a second thought? It's not that I'm trying to persuade you that you are gay or bisexual (that's for you to decide), but it's a question worth considering. As things stand, you only have eyes for your friend anyway, but if you manage to get past these feelings for him are you sure it would be a 'one off'?
     
  5. Scotslad1987

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    I thank you for your reply to my situation, its has helped. My point that I'm trying to make is he came on to me, he forced the issue and then after it "got too real" he ran away leaving me holding the bag. When I asked him about it he said "I just don't think it's me" but then continue's to say he wouldn't mind if we were out drinking and ended up making out and the other week, he came on really hot and heavy, in his room, but I stopped him, not because I didn't want to do anything, but I knew others were coming back to his house, including the girlfriend and I was trying to protect him. I didn't want to be caught out either, but now I'm starting to wish I'd let people walk in and see us- is that selfish? I took him a drive and confronted him on everything after that but he sat in the car and said absolutely nothing, it was hurtful but then is he avoiding saying anything to me face to face? He then text me and said he was cutting it off again. But after long winded texts he agreed to sit and think about everything and agreed to let us play out, again. The only reason I'm wanting him to face up to us is because I've spent most of my time analysing everything, in detail, what it all means, why I let him come on to me, like I said I have no interest in any other guys, there's just a connection with him and his being a guy is irrelevant, that's just anatomy. He's kept himself distracted with this girl and he's clinging to her, like she's not his type, he said so, he dissed her and still continues to get annoyed by her, she's physically assaulted him and yet he won't get rid of her. Because he's too busy denying us and distracting himself with this girl he won't think about us- I mean we've argued and he has said he doesn't want anything more to happen, but then keeps coming back. I chose to accept what I was feeling, new and totally unexpected, I don't even know what would come of it if we did let it play out, maybe nothing, but I just need it to play out, which is selfish on my part, I know, but he's being selfish by not letting it, right? I mean his decision to run and hide, that affects me too. He keeps saying he doesn't want our closeness and friendship to end. He isn't happy, if I genuinely believed he was I would, no matter how difficult, walk away and let it be, but he's constantly moody, quiet and non-responsive with me anyway and even before we did anything he was always excited to see me and he talked to me about everything and anything, texting til the early hours etc.... Now I only get a text from him when I text first. He's always expecting an argument and when there isn't one he's still off. It's like if he lets himself be care free and chatty with me like before he'll "fall" back into the wanting me - back to the distancing himself because I'm the one that makes him feel that way. I've probably repeated myself in most of that but your response helped and if you can find anything new in this that you can input on it would be greatly appreciated, thank you :slight_smile:

    ---------- Post added 15th May 2015 at 05:28 PM ----------

    Thanks for your reply. I can see what you mean by him kind of stringing me along by teasing me. He says things that he know will make me jealous and hurt, like before heading out to the club at his, he'll for no reason tell me that he'll be bringing his girlfriend back at the end of the night- should mention that the night he said this it was the night he got hot and heavy with me on his bed, until I stopped him, to protect him from her walking in and seeing it. I just want him to acknowledge it as more than what he is doing just now- the minimising things that he does when he's in denial. I even read up on Ego-Dystonic Sexuality, a crazy psychology term and that along with what other people have said about him makes me think he's hiding more. A few of our friends, who don't know anything has happened, have turned around and said they "know" he's gay and by me just telling them that he's been off with me, describing his behaviour without revealing anything - they told me that they think he has a crush on me. So even people who don't know the truth of the situation are seeing things in him, even the barmaid at our local club thought he was gay and "into me". It's all messed up and because we've argued about it because we've been back and forth on the whole thing, I don't know how we'd go about doing anything without it feeling forced now, even if he agreed it would feel like I pressured him into facing it....

    ---------- Post added 15th May 2015 at 05:39 PM ----------

    Thanks for the reply. The resisting thing is hard, because I want him to want me. The thing is, without sounding vain or arrogant, people have said he isn't that attractive, he himself said to me that he was punching above his weight, I'm nothing special, so why would he think he wasn't good enough for me, more to the point if he thought he was punching, why would he not be happy he got me?

    Genuinely not trying to deny my own sexuality here, but I have absolutely no interest in guys at all- save for him. My problem just now is, I can't even see girls as an option because I'm too busy thinking about him, and like I said, he's no Brad Pitt or whatever, but to me he's cute and funny and we're so much a like it borders on narcissism that I'm attracted to his personality so much. Physically, we both got hard, he ejaculates quickly with me, he kept having to stop me so he wouldn't cum too quick, he was still aroused after cumming, staying hard and frisky- as do I. But he has said (much to my dislike that he shares) that he can go for a couple of hours with his girlfriend, without cumming, again not to sound vain, but he can't be that excited, sexually by her, to not cum, right? He said his first time with her was the most "horrific experience of his life", so why would he go back for seconds, thirds, fourths if she was so bad, other than to hide behind her and run from me? I have been with a few girls and I've always enjoyed it, I could say I've enjoyed one girl more than I have him, but with him there was a charge, something totally different and we both felt it- now he's making out that it was nothing. I know I should just let go, but regrets are something I don't want to live with and if I walk away I know I'll hate myself for not trying. I just wish he'd stop pretending, stop just teasing me and until this girl showed up he was the driving force behind it all.
     
  6. bluesky

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    " I know I should just let go, but regrets are something I don't want to live with and if I walk away I know I'll hate myself for not trying. I just wish he'd stop pretending, stop just teasing me and until this girl showed up he was the driving force behind it all. " I want to comment on what you said here first. You're right, regrets aren't something we want to live with. I totally agree with you on that because I'm the type of person that does not want any regrets in his life also. But listen, you can't change him. It sounds like you know where you stand and that you like him which is really good and I'm proud of you for that. Most guys when liking a guy for the first time they will deny it. Which is what your friend is doing to you at the moment. You can't put a time on when he will understand this on the same level as you do. I know that you like him a lot, I can tell by the way you talk about him. If you haven't told him that you like him and want to pursue him, you need to do so. When you say you were both "straight" I think, with this case, it was more you that was "straight", compared to him. Your friend probably have been fighting his identity for a long time. Which explains the way he's acting with you. It's clear that he wants you, but he can't pursue you because he's not comfortable with his own sexuality. He won't let that happen because he still feels that it's "wrong" to love another man. Until he is ready to love himself, that is when he's ready to love you. This is why I don't want you to sit around and wait for him to change his mind, because that will be up to him. You say that you don't want to live with regrets, but do you want to spend 1, 2, 5, 10 years from now waiting around for a guy that would be in the closet for god knows how long? Your time is valuable also, you do realize that right? I know you want things to work, but you have to understand that if it's not meant to work, it won't work, therefore you will not be living with regrets. Right now, the best you can do is just tell him you want to pursue him and you want to be with him. If he's not ready for it, then he's not ready for it. He's going to continue to confuse you, trust me on that. It is because he wants you, but he's not ready for you at the same time. You can't sit around for when he's ready for that. Pull back and let him figure out what he wants, don't let him string you along. What your friend is doing to you at the moment... that's exactly who I was in the past. I wish you best of luck.
     
  7. Thirdtimecharm

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    Bluesky I think ur insight is dead on. You said things perfectly.

    Scotland1987 Bluesky's comments are perfectly said, I suggest you follow what he recommended. You have to protect ur heart bc no one else will. You cannot control other people and their behavior only urs....ur friend may never own up to how he feels about you....mine never did and it took me twenty years and her leaving me to finally figure that out. I don't want you to wait twenty years....
     
  8. Scotslad1987

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    Ok, so quick update. So a couple of weeks ago I met up with him, just the two of us and as usual a huge argument erupted from my annoyance at his lack of addressing the situation and his annoyance that I keep bringing it up. I'm annoyed that I have to bring it up now too. But I said to him that I can't do the boring chit chat, unimportant small talk or sit through the awkward silences until the issues are resolved in someway. He hasn't really spoken to me the past two weeks since. He's been spending even more of his time than before with his "girlfriend" either with her or by texting her all the time. He messages back to me when he feels like it. However, the past few days he's been more frequent with his replies. He was told by me to go away and think about what he's doing and what he's giving up- not just me, but his happiness (he's been less happy and more moody these days) his honesty and his freedom to be who he is. I text him on Saturday, just to remind him of the way he used to be when we were together and the difference in him now. I also said to him that I know he's probably going to continue lying to himself and dismissing us, but I was hopeful that he'd step up. I did say no matter what he's decided, just not to lie to me, because I know how he really feels (two weeks ago, he was a little drunk and all over me again- I stopped him, to protect him from having people walk in and see us- including his "girlfriend"- he kept grabbing me and kissing me though. Think it would have been cruel but better if I hadn't stopped him and let her walk in on us!). His reply to me was that he wouldn't lie, nor say any contradictions or anything of that nature. I'm not getting my hopes up - he's spending WAY more time with the "Girlfriend" (to make himself like her, but complains that she annoys him at times?!) - but what is he doing? This sound like another mind game? I'm meeting him tomorrow to get this "talk" out of the way- I'm dreading it, because regardless of previous talks, this one will have more finality to it- because I'm done being played, he's been told that, so whatever he says tomorrow he knows will have a lasting affect. I guess I can update you on what happens tomorrow, but if you can follow any of that rambling of mine, any advice, any unbiased and objective perspective you guys can give? Hopefully before the talk takes place :grin:
     
  9. Bi in MD

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    paragraphs are your friend
    LOL
     
  10. Scotslad1987

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    Ok, so I talked with him. He acknowledged he was being horrible, he claims he wants the closeness, as in the emotional-side, to come back. I might be a little selfish, but I want both the emotional and physical side. He's not ruling the physical out, he said he can't promise that it'll come back- My perspective on that is he doesn't hold back on the physical when he's drunk so he's holding back when he's sober out of fear or the thought that what we do is wrong. Add in the fact he's getting sexual relief from the "girlfriend", that he can "brag" to our guy pals about or not have to hide it anyway, giving him "macho" points.

    So is he just stalling and stringing me along even more now, it's like I told him to acknowledge us, maybe not publicly-but between him and me at least, or I'd walk away for good- he's put like an offer, which allows him the best of both, he'll get the emotional off me, plus when drunk or hard up the physical too (like keeping his options open) plus being able to fuck the girl and continue to pretend with her. All the while the thought of the two of them kills me, and I know when he's with her, I know what they'll be doing and I know WHY he's doing it- he still hasn't denied feeling attracted to me, like I said I only kissed him in the hotel and when I felt down his body, I felt his arousal, he got hard fast and only with a kiss!

    He says he's not as comfortable with the physical side of things now, yet before it was him driving it- like I'm not misrepresenting it, all of the sexual stuff was him, right up until the night we were "caught" by our friend. That's when he really started to pull away, after it became more than just a strange and random sexy fun thing, when he said he loved me, the same night getting caught. He said it all got too "real" too fast. I believe he's running from the physical aspects of (what HE calls) our "relationship" because of social pressure, to conform and to be accepted by our friends, most of whom are not the most open minded of people :/

    When I text him and said that I can't engage in the emotional side without the physical (it isn't just about sex- but its all connected and it was him that pushed that on me in the first place) he just keeps saying he'll try. But he then still keeps hiding behind the girl, he spends most of his time with her now, he texts her constantly and he is trying to get our other friends to like her. They dislike her because she has done some twisted things to him and tried to get between us and him.

    Even his clinging to her is starting to appear desperate. I don't mean to sound horrible, superficial or bitchy, but the girl isn't a looker, he has said she's not his type, that she's not that good looking and that she annoys him. So why stay with her? After fucking her for the first time (when she was only meant to be a one night stand) he told everybody that it was "the most horrific experience" of his life. But he knew I really disliked her, he knew that being with her would be a way to distance himself from me and now he's "going out" her. Our talk about her was me trying to get him to ditch her, but he's adamant that he is keeping her around- I just don't get why, like he won't stop holding back with me while she's around, she's like his safety net to run back to if anybody even questions that he's gay- and EVERYBODY does!

    As for his "girlfriend"- she almost walked in on us fooling around, I pushed him off me just before she did, to protect him! But then she sat at the top corner of his bed in silence (she doesn't speak when I'm around) and watched as me and him had a laugh and carried on, playfully (but at that point not sexually) on his bed. The next day she asked him if there was anything going on between the two of us? He said no, obviously, and then asked why she would think that? Her reply was, the way we were carrying on the night before. He told her we were just really close and comfortable with each other. My whole thing about that though is, if she thinks he could be gay too, why is she sticking to him? I don't lie, which I think gets me into more trouble, but for him, even I am living a lie and I do it to protect him. But I'm drained, I don't know how much longer I can keep up pretenses, I might be selfish by "forcing" him to face things but he's equally as selfish for denying everything that he brought about AND for using, I would say both her and me!

    I feel lost. I can't look at any girl that way because he's on my mind and the thought of going out with a girl at the minute, while I'm "in love" with him would be wrong, I couldn't and wouldn't do that to any girl. He doesn't seem to mind, he gets to pretend with her and string me along...

    I don't want us to be "outed" I liked our secret little redezvous' and how it was just between me and him (now he has her to keep up appearances) but at the same time if it were to come out, and it will eventually- I wouldn't care, because I know who and what I am and while he clings to her, he won't accept things. He might not be gay, it could be like me, that he could have this intense connection with just me, like I do him.

    Should I let him string me along in the hopes that he will eventually ditched the girl and even if not openly, come back to me fully? Should I walk away and let her have him? He keeps giving mixed signals to me about what he wants from me, he doesn't feel comfortable with the sexual part but then when he's drunk he's all over me... it's like sober he holds back out of some social fear or thinking its wrong! When I pull him up on that he doesn't actually give an answer, he mumbles and it's non-logical babble ;(

    I know I sound like a fool. Should I be brave enough to offer an ultimatum, something I shouldn't and didn't have to do before :frowning2: I don't mean to force him to face things, but this "try" with the physical annoys me, because he was the driving force behind it and now he kisses me and when I kiss back he pulls away.... My heads all over the place but the one thing I'm sure of is I want us to play out, to whatever conclusion we would have if he hadn't ran away, started hiding behind this girl or denying everything. Whether it lasted another six months or was much more I just want it to play out. In his defense, I think he's struggling with acceptance, not only from social pressure and moral ideals, but also the thought that what if he does let go and just go with it and he does decide he's gay or looking for more with me and I decide its not for me, then again I think he's more afraid that we both decide its what we want, because then he'd have to face it, eventually, in public.

    I don't know, any further help would be appreciated and again thanks for your help so far...
     
  11. Yossarian

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    You don't sound like a fool, you sound like someone in love, and people in love don't necessarily think in the most logical manner, because they do not want to acknowledge what their logical minds tell them is going on. Your friend is in the closet, doing what some people in the closet do, which is to have their rainbow layer cake when no one is looking, and cover up their true self when homophobic friends are around. He isn't being honest with his cover girlfriend either, or discrete and considerate enough to stay away from you when she is around. He must really think he is something special to treat both of you that way.

    In all honesty, you shouldn't let this guy jerk you around like this, which he is probably going to continue to do indefinitely as long as you let him, until you get so humiliated with yourself that you have let him do this to you, that you walk away. You deserve better. It is up to you to let him go and go find some other guy, if a guy is what you want. IF he changes his mind and behavior later, and you have not found someone else to love who will give you the mutual respect you each deserve, then you can reevaluate the situation at that time. My free advice; worth at least what it costs. Good luck, whatever you decide to do.
     
  12. Scotslad1987

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    Ok so another talk today that seemed to circle the same topics of physical intimacy and him holding back, with little clarification, AGAIN!

    So when I asked him about how he was going to "try" with the physical stuff, he said he'd thought about it and doesn't see how the physical will play out. Like he can't see himself doing it now. But when he's drunk he's all over me. The sober him says he just doesn't want that but when questioned on how he expects the emotional and comfort levels to go back to the way they were without the physical intimacy, which is what led to the emotional level- he couldn't answer.

    I suggested that he's holding back because he can't accept the physical now, because of social anxiety and now he's got a "girlfriend" to at least provide a release for him that he thinks its easy to forget any of it with me. But he still wants the emotional and closeness we had- without the physical, I can't get passed that, it doesn't make sense.

    I'm trying to see it from his perspective, but when I think how he says he doesn't want it now, it would be easy if he didn't keep coming back when he's drunk! The sober him is holding back because of everything else thats happened- Before the "girlfriend" before confessing his love for me he was the driving force behind it all. It's as if it was playful fun and then feelings developed and on some level he thinks thats wrong so now he's determined to not just go with it.

    I asked him what his mind set was when he did just go with it- he didn't answer. I asked what is holding him back now, he didn't have an answer other than he can't see himself doing it. But again, he doesn't hold back when drunk (lowering of inhibitions). When I kissed him in the hotel, he got erect, just by a kiss- but pulled away- I genuinely believe he's now just scared to let go and just go with it because a kiss will lead to the real intimate stuff and that's scary to him because he would have to deal with the consequences of going back to that level, that he wouldn't be able to deny, even though he denies our physical relationship from before.

    Again you have all said he's in denial and hiding from it all. But I'm going to try something tonight with him. He knows about it, its not like I'm gonna jump him lol.

    I want a sober kiss, and I want him to try not pulling away, he can take comfort in knowing that it wont go any further than kissing, but I want him to feel in that moment without thinking of any negative, just to go with it so that we can figure out what it is thats holding him back with the physical intimacy.

    I believe it has to do with social conformity and fear of what others will think. But he keeps saying its not that, the constant "I'm just not into it" its like he's trying to convince me by repeating it, like he's trying to convince himself. When I asked him what he thought would be so bad if he didn't pull away, if he didn't freak out, if he just let it happen like he did before- he couldn't and therefore wouldn't answer!

    Am I being delusional? I know I should take what he says as truth, but he's spent the last two months lying to me about ridiculous things and his actions, some drunk, some not drunk, contradict what he says when he's sober. Even at that, he said he would try, he keeps saying I can't promise that the physical will come back, but I'm not saying it won't - it's like he's keeping his options open- I don't want to be an option, I know I've pretty much lost all self-respect by this point, but after this meeting tonight, I guess I'm gonna have to be done - that ultimatum I have spent so long trying to avoid.... But the emotional, comfort (physical comfort too that he wants, I might add) and the physical intimacy are all connected and its either all or nothing I guess.....
     
  13. Scotslad1987

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    Well that's it done with then.... Too scared, too content to live a lie, too much want to conform. He's lost everything, me, his happiness, his freedom to be himself. So much lost with absolutely nothing gained! Nothing but life of lies and deceit. The truth will come out, but by then he'll have no one to lean on, no friends, no "girlfriend" and I won't be there to hold his hand in the dark when it all goes down for him....
     
  14. PatrickUK

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    Painful as it might be for you, this is a situation that had to come to an end. You and he had very different motives and aspirations and there was no way of bridging the divide.

    I would strongly advise you to put as much space as possible between the two of you now so you have time to recover from all of this. The more contact you have with him, the more difficult it will be for you. The most important relationship right now is the one with yourself.
     
  15. Scotslad1987

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    Thanks, but it's just got more complicated ;(

    So I dropped him off last night, I said nothing when he left the car, I sped off angry to be honest. But I got home and realised that I hadn't gotten the answers I wanted- regardless of what just happened I still needed answers.

    I was awake all night, I messaged him at like 2am with a whole host of questions. Most of them were actually for him to ask himself, but to relay the answer he had back to me. Such as what's he going to do when everybody learns the truth and I'm not there to turn to? One question he couldn't answer was "What would be so bad if you just let go, stop holding back and just went with it like before? What is it that you're afraid of/will happen?"

    I know, I shouldn't torture myself by messaging him after saying I'm done, but the answers are needed for closure, on my part anyway.

    He replied today, he got my message at 5am, he was up for work. He said he was going to sit and think about all of it, he said he didn't want us to go our separate ways (whether he meant even just friends or not is still unclear). He understands why I've been fighting and pushing so hard. He even said that he gets that he hasn't given the same level of thought that I have, otherwise he'd already have answers to my questions.

    He said that he just doesn't see how we can be physically intimate because it doesn't "feel right"- When he said that last night I was offended and took to mean he thought the "gay" thing was wrong (morally). But thinking on it, the barrier he put there was two-fold: He has a level of guilt over the "girlfriend" and cheating- but when he's drunk that goes away (lowering of inhibitions) and secondly, when you argue with your partner, you don't stop yelling half way through and start having sex because it wouldn't feel right- not make up sex, thats always good. When I explained that in the message to him, he said that might actually be it- he couldn't put it into words, but that he'd have to think on it, evaluate it all....

    Is this just another ruse to pull me back in now he's come dangerously close to losing me permanently? Should I give him the chance to think it all over? What if he does, he's already admitted that when he said he just doesn't feel the same now, he was lying, that he does- He just doesn't see how we can go back to being sexual with each other because it doesn't feel right. He also said its cause we've argued, but then he's not only argued with his "girlfriend" she's been physically violent towards him, putting her hands around his neck on at least 3 separate occasions and slapped, punched and kicked him- even in his own house, his own room! Yet he's more than willing to over look that, he even does her washing for her, she lives in student halls, she doesn't work and is always out clubbing- and we know who pays for all that. And when I ask him why she's still with him after questioning if he was gay with me- he doesn't have an answer....
    Our arguments are about his denial, we have never argued about each other and never fought physically either.

    I reminded him that he said he was willing to try on Tuesday, to get back the emotional closeness and physical comfort that we had before, which is great, but that would mean trying with the physical intimacy too! Because it's all connected it was the level of physical comfort we had that led to the sexual activities, which led to the emotional closeness- which if you remember was the reason he ran in the first place. I have said in the message that should he still be willing to try, it can't be just on his terms (where he wanted to continue with me but still keep his "girlfriend" to hide behind) he would have to be all in, no half assing it, no putting in a percentage which is less than 100%. I think the ultimatum of all or nothing made him freak and thats why it ended badly last night.

    Now he wants to think through everything and consider everything. The "girlfriend" needs to go, she's like a safety net that keeps him holding back with me. I have said that to him, so now he's weighing up the pro's and con's - I consider it insulting to me, here I am the guy, HE brought all this on to, who's had to go through all the emotions, all the questions, the shoulda, woulda, coulda's all the while he was screwing some fugly munter, and still toying with me and I still came to the conclusion that what we have is worth exploring. He hasn't even given it 10% of thought.

    He is now, because he thinks I might walk, I technically already have. But it's that thing, is he just holding out a hand to pull it away when I reach out for it? My whole thing though is, if I say I'm walking and he messages to say he'll take it all into account and evaluate everything because I'm ready to walk away, surely that means there's something there HE can't let go of?

    I'm being an idiot now huh? I mean, my terms are set, its all or nothing, so if he comes back with an offer that's to his benefit and not our benefit, it will not change anything. Am I now being a dick about it? I know myself respect his gone in terms of it, I can walk away and regain that, but do I give him yet another chance? Everybody says he's not that good looking, he's not worth the effort (all on a friendship level, others know we argue but they don't know on a relationship level)- but he is to me, he's cute and funny, smart and until he started running he was extremely caring, especially to me :frowning2: I think that's why I'm fighting so are- he said one night when we were out that I could go pull (make out with) whoever on the dance floor, he wouldn't mind because at the end of the night he knew I was his- he said it shouldn't matter if he made out with some random, because when all is said and done, at the end of the night he was mine and I should know that. It wasn't the making out with some random, it was the same girl 4 weeks in a row then he slept with her ("most horrific experience of his life") and then he went back to her and now he's going out with her-- that's the problem. When he had the opportunity to be with another girl, he text me and said he was mine, that she was very much just a one night stand. He never fucked the other girl, he made up some lame excuse, which makes me wonder why he didn't- but I know its because he didn't want to, he doesn't want to fuck girls, the "girlfriend" is easy, comfortable because now he's been with her a while he doesn't have to try and impress he's not anxious about performing and again she's easy to hide behind.

    I'm now just trying to justify why I can't let him go huh? I'm a glutton for punishment, but he has until the end of the night to weigh up his "options"- I'm away for three days tomorrow, then he's away for a while- if its not sorted, then he's losing out!
     
  16. Scotslad1987

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    I firstly would like to thank all of you for your input on my situation. I have an update, and a serious problem that I guess I need help with...

    On Thursday, we agreed to meet up after he finished work. I was out drinking, so I guess it help me to not hold back on what I had to say- I always avoid offending him out of fear it will lead to disaster (or more disaster).

    I began with a blunt, let's get this sorted out, because I'm done with being strung along. A shouting match erupted, full blown argument! But he openly admitted to feeling for me, love, attraction, but also the thought of us being together was wrong, that he was filled with social anxiety and regardless of the risk of never being happy again, he refuses to let us play out, he was putting an end to it all... He was refusing to deal with it all, that He doesn't want to be "gay" or "bi" that he would rather live a lie, use the "girlfriend" to cover up the urges he has for me- that we could no longer be friends or near eachother- I asked for answers as to what we were then, what I meant to him and how he could be so selfish - He refused to answer any of them, he refused to deal with our situation, on any level because he can't accept who he is.

    We argued ourselves to exhaustion, I turned to him and simply asked, in a soft and if I'm honest defeated tone, if he was tired, tired of the monitoring what he said, what he did, of having to pretend? He sighed, his eyes watered up, but he wasn't crying. His eyes were screaming yes- but he couldn't answer he wouldn't answer, but I knew. I asked what the difference is now to when we were together, drunk and sober. I pointed out that he has no problems now when he's drunk, because his inhibitions are lowered, his worries just melt away- I asked if his feelings and attraction for me was only for me, the way I only have these feelings towards him, or was he sexually attracted to other guys- that would mean there was something more to his hiding, he said no, that it was just between us and I mean so much to him, but he can't bring himself to accept his feelings or how he doesn't want to feel the way he does. We parted ways bitter and angry.

    The next day though, out of sadness at losing someone I was that close to, I just asked him to re-read our messages and try to remember who we were together and who he is, to realise that I went through all these issues on my own while he was fucking his "girlfriend" and treating me so badly. But by accepting things and trying to deal then he wouldn't have to do that alone, because I would be here to help him through it - I didn't expect a reply, grasping at straws I guess....

    But he did reply, he hadn't slept at all from the night before, he said he missed us, the closeness, the comfort level we once had, he didn't mention the sexual intimacy, but has agreed to read over everything and really consider what he's choosing to do- I think he tried to do the cruel cut it off to spite his face thing to make it easier on him to deny his feelings- If I'm not around, he doesn't have the "temptation". But after the Thursday he's realised that he risks losing me permanently, because he's pretty much been banking on my feelings for him to keep me around- but I was adamant that he had to be all in or nothing- I may have messaged him, but only to give him the chance to do what he failed to do in the first place- really analyse everything.

    I'm meeting him tomorrow to discuss everything, I know it'll probably end the same way, but I'm going to try and have him at least attempt to be comfortable with who he is, long enough that he can in some way accept everything. The truth is going to come out eventually, he know's this, if I'm not there, who's he got to hold his hand in the dark?

    I guess what I'm asking is how do I get him to accept himself, or allow himself to try? I know the "girlfriend" has to go, he clings to her out of desperation, like a safety net... But how does he give up the pretense that he's been holding on to for months? A part of me things I'll look to make him pay for how he's treated me- I just want him to accept us and (cue the sappy music) kiss me- one kiss is all thats needed, where he doesn't pull away outta fear and we'll be back on track, or a first step...

    I'm pretty sure my situation is he makings of a very bad tv. storyline- but any help you guys can give would be appreciated. I know my situations been stormy, but I'm hoping to have it resolved shortly. I would also like to point out that I know I may appear selfish forcing him to face up to things- but he's been horrible and selfish towards me by running and denying and putting his "relationship" with that girl in my face! But it's not about scoring points, he has admitted to faking happiness around others (I didn't need his confirmation on that) he's been angry and distant for the past couple of months as a result of everything, I'm partially to blame for keeping at him about us, but I knew he was unhappy and regardless of him saying on Thursday that he would rather live a lie than face the truth- he is now reconsidering everything about us- or at least I hope he is.... But I will probably be left disappointed and hurt, again....
     
  17. PatrickUK

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    The simple answer to your question is that you can't get him to accept himself or the idea of a relationship with you. I'm afraid it's a decision he must make for himself. I know it's hard for you and it must pain you a great deal to see him in a false relationship with a member of the opposite sex, but it's the choice he has made. Only he can choose an alternative path.

    I would caution you against forcing the issue or attempting to score points. There are no winners when a friendship or relationship slides to that level.

    I can only stand by the advice I have already offered and suggest you make the break. It's not what you want to hear or do, I'm sure, but it's the only way. It is possible that the idea of losing you from his life permanently will jolt him to his senses, but even if it doesn't it will still be the right thing to do -- for you.
     
  18. deisadze

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    As Patrick wrote you can't force him to accept himself. The only thing you can do is tell him that you know how hard it must be and you know what he is going through, and assure your friend that you will always be there for him.

    He is afraid of losing you so maybe ultimatum will work, idk. But if it won't, than you have to break up. Otherwise it will end up badly for you and him. There is no way you two can go back to 'friendship'. This kind of a relationship can't be healthy, and you will get hurt.
     
  19. wardrobeescaper

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    Ouch, this sounds painful. At the end of the day, this guy is going to have his cake and eat it if you let him. Its about both of you and this doesn't sound like a healthy relationship. Why don't you go to a gay bar or somthing and meet other guys who might love you back in the way you want?
     
  20. Yossarian

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    The phrase "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice (or multiple times), shame on me" comes to mind. Your task isn't to fix him, that is his job; you have given him more than what he needs, which is now bordering on enabling his schizophrenic behavior towards you. Time to kiss him goodbye and move on, before he makes your life any more distorted with his problems and "girlfriend".