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Homophobic best friend.And family.And country.

Discussion in 'Coming Out Advice' started by SneakyFennec, Jun 19, 2016.

  1. SneakyFennec

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    Hello.
    I'm the classic case of not-really-straight guy in a conservative,kind of religious,but surely homophobic nation.
    The only person who's aware is my cousin,with whom I've been raised,and he's totally cool with it.
    With my best friend of five years on the other hand....Well,we've been doing homophobic,racist,antisemitic and many other kind of offensive jokes for the lol of it,immediately apologizing if something goes wrong. But I know he most likely follows the mainstream mindset of not being okay with homos because they're homos.
    He could be okay with it. He could change his mind,especially since we're very close and it would show him we're not that different.
    Or he might,just,stop being my friend.
    Or it might all go horribly wrong,ending up with me getting kicked out of the house, in prison,or in forced "therapy"

    I'm tired of keeping secrets.
     
  2. Tyler hereforu

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    I'm happy that at least you have your cousin who knows the real you.
    I feel you. I had a Moroccan boyfriend before I married, and he was in a similar situation although he was living in the Netherlands.
    Do you meet other gay guys who are in the same situation?
     
  3. SneakyFennec

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    Thanks for the reply,Tyler.
    No I do not. Claiming homosexuality is risky,the info being heard by the wrong ears is potentially life threatening.
    Everyone knows we exist,we're out there but all so deep in the closet we're not aware of each other.
    I live in Algeria by the way,neighbouring Morocco and we share the same language,culture,customs and homophobia.
     
  4. Tyler hereforu

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    Yes, I saw you are from Algeria; that made me think of my Moroccan boyfriend - I have very good memories about him... ;-)
    I am not seeing him anymore, unfortunately, but I know that he got to know another Moroccan gay guy (living in Morocco) and that he brought him to Europe and they are living together. His parents went back to Morocco, so now it's a little easier for him, but for his Moroccan friends and for his family, he is still in the closet.
    Did you ever consider looking for a boyfriend and leaving your country for a boyfriend and a safer place to live in?
     
  5. SneakyFennec

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    Of course I have. Even LGBT and civil rights aside,this place is pretty much an economic failure. I don't really WANT to leave but I pretty much have to.
    Being in a relationship isn't really a priority. Sure I feel lonely at times,and of course it's difficult here. But that can wait. What would drive me to live abroad is education and universities.
    The real issue now is with my best friend. The first time I actually questioned my sexuality was two or three years ago when I found him really attractive. It's been "growing" ever since,and I think I'm at least a Kinsey 4

    It's just difficult to hide a part of myself like this,especially to someone that close to me. I don't even act "stereotypically gay" and no one has a clue. I just want him to be okay with it so I can be my true self with my best friend.

    Still,you took some of your time to reply and it means a lot.Thanks again.
     
  6. Tyler hereforu

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    Actually there are two issues: 1. Your (gay) feelings for him, and 2. Your desire being able to be your true self with him.
    Quite an explosive combination, even in countries/cultures/societies where homosexuality is better accepted.

    But I think, especially *because of* your feelings for him, you would like to be able to come out to him.

    Is it possible to give him some hints, so that if he understands but really badly reacts, you would still be able to deny being gay?

    For example, what if you told him that you chatted with a guy online who "happened" to be gay and then ask him seriously how he would react if you were gay? How much would he value your friendship? Would he throw your friendship away or would he keep seeing you?
    Could you do that or would that already be too risky?
    Are you sure he is 100% straight, or could your friend be gay or bi himself?
     
    #6 Tyler hereforu, Jun 23, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2016
  7. SneakyFennec

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    Oh I don't have any romantic feelings towards him. It would awkward,kind of incestuous...I don't know. I just happened to notice he's a good looking guy,and it made me doubt my orientation actively.

    When asked about my orientation,it went from "I think I'm straight but who knows,eh?" to "I don't know anymore" and finally to the present day "most likely gay"
    And well,he showed clear signs of interest in girls over the years,so he's bi and hiding at the very very most.

    Also,I guess I could do that. Just make it look like a semi-serious debate like when we talk about politics and then mention homosexuality.
    A couple of times,I tried to act,look and sound really serious and genuine and made sexual advances to see how we would react. He laughed it off,I did too and we moved on,everytime.
    It gives me hope that he doesn't actively HATE homosexuality and could prove to be a tolerant person,but I don't want to get too hyped.

    Once again,it feels so amazingly pleasant to find this kind of support,and to find people who understand. Thank you so much.
     
  8. Tyler hereforu

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    If I can be honest with you, I think you must be very careful with making sexual advances to him, even if it's just for play.
    Even if he is straight and accepts gay guys, sexual advances might be a bridge too far.

    Leave that for MUCH later. It would be the best if it could gradually evolve from half-serious talks about homosexuality to more serious talks and from there to really telling him if/when you feel fully safe and confident about it.

    Does your cousin know your best friend, too? Maybe you can ask him, what he thinks how your best friend would react?

    It's my pleasure, to talk with you ;-)
     
  9. SneakyFennec

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    You probably know how late teenage humor is,even socially in a group these kind of jokes happen,I just tried to act serious.
    Just like when we ended up discussing porn.
    "and what would be your favorite category?"
    I stared right into his eyes.
    "I'd say trap or gay"
    "Really"
    "Maybe?"
    I guess I subconsciously backed down or something,but he still ended up taking it as a joke,and the conversation just moved on.
    And when I told my cousin,his first questions were: If my best friend knew,and if we were secretly together. I wouldn't be surprised if they've had a talk behind my back.

    But I wouldn't want my cousin to get even MORE involved. When I came out to him,very subtly,very quietly,very unexpectedly,at a family meeting,with many people around us,he went through many,MANY different thoughts and points of view that he couldn't express or discuss on the moment,before accepting it,all of that in a single night. I think that's enough pressure on the poor guy :/
     
  10. Tyler hereforu

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    Sure, I know, I have been a teenager, too. Only I was out of the closet when I was 15. And now that might be a relatively normal age to come out in Europe/the Netherlands, but not when I was a teenager. I guess that's why I never shared that kind of humor with other , straight, guys. They knew I was gay and I'm sure they would feel to ill at ease to make these kinds of jokes with.

    Keep us updated about your friend - it would be really nice if you could be yourself with him. But take it slowly, think about your safety.
     
  11. SneakyFennec

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    I was oh-so-original and slipped the orlando attack into the conversation,then stated "my opinion" that homosexuals should be left alone because hate is useless.
    "Right,but they're still gay. And I don't like gays"
    I had no opportunity to keep it going,I think he switched topics on purpose. I'm gonna slow down a lot.
    Perhaps he has doubts about me now. Doesn't look good.
     
  12. Tyler hereforu

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    The problem is that him saying he doesn't like gays, doesn't necessarily mean he would hate you for being gay. Not liking gays is just the "standard mode" in your country for most people.
    Maybe, in reality, he holds the opinion that it is your own life...

    The problem with all this is: you can't be 100% sure how someone reacts to homosexuality before you come out to them.
    Take my parents, I was 15, in a time when being gay was not that "normal" like now. My cousin had come out a few years before and my parents were really ok with it. Until it came closer and their own son turned out to be gay too...they gave me hell for the first 6 months after my coming-out.

    But it also happens the other way around. A lot of people make negative remarks about homosexuality because they don't know any gay people, and then, when someone close to them turns out to be gay, they change their opinion for the positive...

    It's complicated...right?
     
  13. SneakyFennec

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    Aye,it's never simple.
    But the thing is,coming out would mean going up to someone and telling them I'm something illegal that is not accepted in any case.
    The Netherlands just like her neighbours are western and today homophobia is the one frowned upon.
    In the ocean of sand I hail from,though,the rules differ.
    I think I'm physically safe no matter what happens,but I won't risk telling him.
    I thought of many ways it could go,the best one being confronting him about the issue in an isolated spot,giving the options of either standing by my side or leaving me behind for good,but that's....Really dramatic,especially with my ultra-effective tear evacuation system.
    It's not such a big deal. Other guys want to date females,me not so much. That's literally it. But it complicates everything...