"Mom and dad, I'm gay" is something I can't say. I've been out before and ended up back in. You can read about that here. http://emptyclosets.com/forum/coming-out-advice/148715-extreme-fundamentalist-parents.html After having a conversation with my dad tonight and the topic going to the Presidential election and then my dad going on a hateful rant about how he wishes we were back in the day when "f-gs were hung from a tree", I've realized I will never be able to reason with them. The conversation went from civil to the point you could hear the hate and anger in his voice when the topic got on that. My only option of I am to move forward in my life is to disown them. I can't even tell them about my sexual orientation, though they will know, I will have to simply cut them out of my life. However, I have two issues. The first is they are still my family. They love me in their own way. I've heard it said they don't love me because they won't accept me for who I actually am, but to them, my same-sex attraction is a choice I made that can be fixed by prayer and therapy. That isn't true, but to them it is. No matter how angry I get with them, I still love them, and sometimes I can't bare not being the person they want me to be and the fact that our relationship will never be what it was before I came out the first time. It's tragic, but that is the way it is. Secondly, I live in a conservative Southern town where the mindset of the majority agree with my family. I really don't have a "chosen" family so to speak as I am completely closeted. Moving is not an option for another 3-4 years no matter what. I've looked at everything and it just can't be done financially. With all of that said, I have come to the conclusion where I am not going to be able to move forward with my family in my life. How would you proceed in this situation?
I'll tell you what my spouse did. She stopped talking to her parents over 20 years ago. The reasons might be somewhat different, but basically she just quit interacting with them. This was facilitated by their fortuitous relocation to a southeastern state (we are in the northwest), combined with her parents' astounding level of cheapness that they almost never travel here. No wonder you can't reconcile your parents' attitude of wishing retributive death on homosexuals with the idea of Christianity. Even an agnostic like myself who attends church infrequently is acquainted enough with the Bible to know that it is not your father's place to advocate this. If I were in your situation--based on my temperament not yours--I would have not made that move back, after the "therapy." You did so, and it apparently was based on your loyalty and attachment to your parents, for which I think you should be commended, even though it seems to be unwise. So I think you have two problems, reading between the lines. First, you have the difficulty of reaching the decision of starting over somewhere else, alone and without much family. This will require that you synthesize at least enough of that support structure to function as you wish to. Then, secondly, you have to determine where your spirituality lies, and what your spirituality actually is. For this, since i have the sense you are attached to your religious background, I'd suggest you find another denomination that is open and accepting. There are many of these, and perhaps there you can study the alternative theological arguments that contrast so sharply with your father's opinion. This is not going to be easy for you. Perhaps the hardest part is going to be making that decision. But it's very clear to me that your current situation is untenable. P.S.: Could you describe the financial limitations that make a more immediate relocation difficult?
I know you and I are at very different phases in life and dealing with different issues, but I can relate a lot to what you've written. I had made the decision to come out as trans to a pretty severe fundamentalist family. It did not go well. And essentially, they told me I'd be disowned if I transitioned. I still live at home for the time being, kind of stuck in a forced-to-be-closeted limbo. And yet, I love my family. And as you said, I know my family loves me in their own way. They think that being LGBT is a choice; they will not be dissuaded from that opinion. I know it. So it seems that I'll have to let them go. Not quite yet, but eventually and perhaps for good. I can understand the pain in that realization. But I think you have to do what you can. Maybe you are in a tough position right now, but it isn't impossible. Identify what resources you do have and work from there. If you can't move out of state, maybe you could move to another city in your state. Sometimes there are in-state areas more accepting of LGBT. For now, focused on what you can control. All I can say is that I'm really sorry you're going through this. Don't lose hope that things can get better. Find people who will love and support you. They exist.
Thanks for the response. The rut I am in, as you mentioned, stems from my inability to make any decisions. Moving back home was not the best decision I could have made. People in my life warned me before I did it but I wanted to repair my relationship with my family and ultimately be accepted by them and for things to be as they once were. I was also still fundamentalist at the time and felt it was what God wanted me to do (in reality it was what my parents wanted me to do and in the fundamentalist hierarchy, your parents might as well be God). Whatever decision I make regarding this is going to have permanent consequences and it's difficult to step over that line. Even if I don't relocate somewhere else, I'll still be alone here if I were to come out. I wouldn't have my family. I would also have the added stress of running into people I know from church. Speaking of church, I simply have not been going recently. In terms of where my spirituality is, it fluctuates between liberal Christian and agnosticism depending on the day, with the occasional snapback into fundamentalism (which is hard to let go of completely). I went to a United Church of Christ which I liked, but I did not reach out to the community or anybody there. The issue is social media makes it so difficult to do anything or branch out and try things because my parents see everything but almost everything social is on Facebook these days. If I de-friend them, they will know why. In terms of the financial situation, I purchased a car in early 2014 that I can barely afford and that eats up most of my disposable income. It was the dumbest mistake I ever made, even dumber than moving back to my hometown which was pretty dumb. I can't sell it because it has too much ($10k worth) of negative equity. I could sell it and take a loss but if I do that, I'll end up with no car and I'll still owe the bank $10k. Also no one else is going to assume a loan that is that far upside down. Letting it get repossessed and wrecking my credit is tempting, but I worry about it causing me problems when finding employment or a home in my new city. My only real option is to wait it out and pay it off. It's supposed to be paid off in 2020 but I am hoping to push it up to 2018 or 2019.
Your original question is how would I proceed in this situation. If I had been raised as you were raised, I would probably be in your situation exactly. As a gay guy who lived in the closet from the earliest days of my burgeoning sexuality to my current age of 47, I thought I knew all about living in the closet. Your closet is far darker and more perilous than I can even imagine it to be. I've read your threads and I can see the progression of your realization that you will need to get away from them. I think you know that. It's just that you feel responsible for destroying their idea that they have a morally correct life and family. In your post here, you sound like you are now resigned to the idea that your family will simply never accept you as gay. I agree with that assessment. The only thing left to decide is how much of the rest of your life you are willing to sacrifice for your parent's happiness. And even then, are they really happy anyway? I'm betting they are just not happy people no matter what you do. You leaving them won't really change them for who they are, it will only resurrect an old target for their homophobic rage. Don't you deserve a life? Why does loving them because they are your parents mean that you have to give your life to them? That's not normal, no matter their moral beliefs or religious tolerance. Even putting aside completely the religious aspect of this, parents who would sacrifice their children's lives for their own are not people deserving of the title mom and dad. I'm not entirely clear what's keeping you there. Is this purely financial besides the car? Do you have a means of earning money? You mentioned a 3-4 year time span before you could escape, but you didn't explain why that is. I do wish you well, and I hope you can find a way.
Thanks for this response. Glad you understand what I mean when I say there is absolutely no way to reason with them. I've tried. You can't reason with irrational people. Sorry to hear you have been given an ultimatum that if you transition, then they will disown you. In their warped worldview, they are coming at it from a perspective of "love" even though it is actually hate. I definitely agree I need to work at what I can control. I live in a rural, very conservative Southern state and there isn't anywhere else in this state that would be worth moving. The only benefit might be the change of scenery giving me the drive I need to make real change, but that would be a long shot. Unfortunately, social media had made the world a lot smaller and my parents Facebook stalk me, making having a life outside of their "all-seeing eyes" difficult. Last summer I moved to a part of my small city known for being a little more liberal and modified my Facebook so my parents couldn't see who I am friends with. I did feel like I was progressing, ever so slightly, as a person, but then they figured it out and flipped out, and I fell back into my rut. Moving out of state would be a step in the right direction but it alone will not solve my issue...not as long as I have to continue to live this facade for my parents. I need to make some change, even if it's a small change, in effort to work towards my ultimate goal of being free to be me (it's hard to believe its 2016 and I still have to say that). ---------- Post added 21st Sep 2016 at 01:37 AM ---------- You make great points here and I completely agree with it. The issue is the fact that if I come out again, it will cause the complete breakdown of my family. They believe it is a curse from God to have a gay child, and they also believe that gays fuel the fires of hell and experience a much worse punishment in hell than other sinners (hence the slur 'f-ggot'). They love me to the point where they will do everything they can to prevent that from happening. Also, did I mention my dad is a preacher? If this came out, he could lose his church and his livelihood. When I came out the first time, I quickly moved to the East Coast so things stayed hush hush around here. It isn't as simple as me coming out, my dad getting angry and disowning me, and both me and my family getting on with our lives. Thanks. As far as what's keeping me here, it's purely financial. I have a job but most of my disposable income goes towards this car payment for the car that I should have never bought (see my earlier post for the reasons why I can't get rid of it). The car also prevents me from moving and taking any job I can get until I can find a real job because I can't make any less than I am making now and still afford my car. I would likely need to be making more considering the fact that where I would move would likely have a higher cost of living than where I am living now. If I could be rid of the car, that would take a HUGE weight off my shoulders, but right now the ONLY way out (and I've exhausted all possibilities i.e. selling it, trading it, refinancing it, etc) is either waiting out the loan or voluntary repossession. As I've said though, getting out is a piece of the puzzle but it all still hinges on my family. I have to get to the point where I am ready to let go...where I've had enough sacrificing my life for them and am willing to be my own person regardless of what happens to them. I need to get to the place where I accept that whatever happens to them is a result of their own hatred and bigotry and not anything I've done.
Thank you for explaining their beliefs a little more, I now understand better. I think the fact you are able to synthesize the issue to this last sentence and articulate it so well indicates to me that you are already at that place. The fact that you haven't pulled the trigger yet doesn't change that you are there in that place already.
It sounds like it's time for you to cut the ties: you're an adult and no longer a child and staying under their control isn't good for you. You're not responsible for your parents' happiness or their religious beliefs. What about going overseas to work: the simplest way to do this would be to get one of the internationally recognised certificates for teaching English to adults. Then head off to Europe and experience the sophistication and intellectual challenges of European history and European Christian thought. The extremist position of the religious extremists in America is far removed from the reality of religion in most European countries. It'll give you a new perspective on things, you'll become more self-confident and independent and may be able to place your parents' beliefs in context. And so many European cities have vibrant and tolerant LGBT communities where you could celebrate and enjoy your sexual identity free of fear. Do you know of any community financial advisors where you live who might be able to help you with your car loan: maybe refinance it in some way. I don't know. But it sounds like you need to set yourself a goal and get help to achieve it. Good luck.
As someone who has no god, no religion, and no need for it in my life, I'm feeling very angry having read how bad you've been treated. It's appalling. Your parents have chosen their god over their child and for that they should feel ashamed. Do you think they really believe that conversion therapy shit? I mean, I know religious people cling to it as if it's a whole thing, but it's really not. The only time it "works" is when people like yourself are frightened and shunned to such an extent that they take everything back and suffer in silence. That is not a fix. It's an abuse. Do they actually believe you are now not gay? Surely not. Which is why I suspect they say such horrid things around you to reinforce their control. Please don't buy into it. You've done nothing wrong but try to be a good son. From what you've told us here you seem like a very compassionate person that wishes to make peace on all fronts. If you cannot leave for several years then things will be difficult if you must remain living with these people. I do completely understand your feelings of "they are my family" but I think for your own safety and sanity, you should interact as little as possible. Tell them what you must. Do what you must. But I'd remain cool and distanced when possible knowing that at some point you will escape. They made it clear they didn't like the real and honest you, so give them nothing. Support yourself, love yourself, and be patient.
