Hey Empty Closets, any advice would be really helpful and greatly appreciated. I'm asking for a friend (whom I'll just refer to as "A") whose younger brother just came out as gay to his parents, and in the wake of his coming out caused quite a bit of friction. Prior to him actually coming out, A's parents weren't exactly supportive of gays, but they've been trying to understand. However, A's brother hasn't been accepting of his parents, and has associated any criticism directed at him with him being gay. He's also been using his sexuality to get out of doing certain things, or to get special privileges; for example, he thinks the reason his want him to exercise is because he thinks they want to convert him back to being straight. So what I'm asking for is, has anyone been though this type of situation before, and if so how did you work through it? Were you able to facilitate a discussion between the sibling and the parents, or was therapy of some sort involved? Thanks in advance for any response!
So from your point of view, I dont think there is much you can do, without causing more friction.... From A's point of view he may be able to have a conversation with his brother where he lays the ground work with validation, kindness, acceptance, etc. Then just listen to him... Odds are if he is having problems with family, and his brother opens up and shows he is accepting and all, he will probably talk to him, and from there they can figure out what needs to change.... Out of curiosity what criticisms are being used that he thinks is because he is gay? I am trying to guage whether it is a legitimate complaint or not... Some parents would try to change them with criticisms and working out to turn them straight doesnt sound so different from putting them in sports... A may not realize that they are legitimate complaints. Of crourse if its stuff like you dont clean your room enough, and he says its because he is gay, then obviously its not legitimate.... If they are legitimate, I would argue A could then coordinate a family wide conversation fairly easily and clear the air... I doubt the younger brother will ever actually initiate the conversation considering it was probably pretty hard to come out, and they seem to have had a negative reaction, he probably just wants to go under the radar... But with A helping out it might happen. But like I said, this is all from A's perspective
Hi ABeautifulMind, I think my question may not have been clear; A is my friend, and it's her younger brother that's having issues with his parents. But thanks for the reply!
Hello! This is lawlight's friend A. I'm here to clarify a few things ABeautifulMind Criticisms being used: - It's mostly just topics on exercise -Their point on exercise is to build him to be stronger mentally/physically in case something happens - However, my brother has been confusing remarks on homosexuality with remarks on simply his attitude and character. - Most remarks made are not about his homosexuality - My parents tend to criticize him on his personality: he's prone to outbursts and sometimes disregards others' emotions, and occasionally in his efforts to "educate" my parents of LGBT, makes discriminatory remarks against the identities of my parents (race, culture, sexuality) My parents have actually been actively trying to progress, but my brother tends to block their attempts to reconcile by focusing on past things they have said about LGBT. Thanks ABeautifulMind for the suggestions! I'll definitely try to set up some family sessions, and maybe talk a little bit more one-on-one.
So there is a slightly different relationship between brother and sister and brothers, but it should still essentially be the same idea.... The big difference I see really is that you can do the whole, who do you think is cute and talk about it, where brothers cant, well unless they are both gay I suppose... That may be an angle to try to build some closeness if closeness is lacking.... Is the problem with your brothers working out that he is too small or too big? I dont mean to be blunt but the reactions will be completely different depending on that answer... And what does he say exactly? Like maybe you could provide a miniature version of the typical confrontation over working out? IDK how your parents reacted to his coming out but that could also be a big part of it... Also, how old is your brother? If they reacted poorly and are trying to make it up to him, it may just take a little time... It may also take some assertion on your parents part. Basically force him to sit down and listen, and just say, look we are sorry for how we reacted, we are sorry we hurt you, however their apology would go, and ask him to try and move forward together. Make sure they add in some words on wanting to be supportive/accepting/etc.... But it sounds like they try and talk to him without interrupting his schedule, like just as they happen to be in the same room... I would bet until they make some grand gesture like that (depending on his age) he wont come around... I would liken it to a defense mechanism... He is worried about letting his guard down because of the initial reaction... Once he knows that he is going to be accepted for him he should open up, plus the criticisms wont seem so personal either.... All of that requires some assumptions.... I hope this is helpful, and if not, if you can provide more information I will take another stab at it... My other idea is to have your brother come here and post about whatever may be bothering him... If he posts here he will be told everything he is doing right, and everything he is doing wrong. There are a lot of people on these forums that would gladly help him out, myself included... We tend to be very supportive of everyone involved in a given situation, not just the people posting here... hence my attempts to empathize with your brother on the limited info I have If that is something you want to consider, I believe you can have this thread removed so you dont have to worry about him seeing it and getting embarrassed or anything... He is also more than welcome to post on my wall if he doesnt want to post on the forum for whatever reason... ---------- Post added 24th Sep 2016 at 08:51 PM ---------- Special snowflakiness isnt one of the criticisms is it?
Haha we've actually had some sibling bonding time where we talk about guys/girls and just the whole gay experience. Both of us are on the thin/small size so our parents have been pushing us to exercise more. I don't doubt that they are pushing us because of my bro being gay - it's definitely a factor, but they don't seem to want to convert him. My brother's coming out was kind of a jump on them. (He kinda just blurted it out). Again, he's a bit impulsive so it was a bit of a shock. My parents are also doubting my brother a little. he's only 13. They think that if he's not straight, he might develop a liking for girls later as well as guys. (I'm not sure how probable that is?) What you said is true - he has a defense mechanism and I'm not entirely sure how productive conversations within our family would be. My parents haven't brought up the subject in about a month, but should they start holding conversations again? As for what my brother has said... "You only want me to work out because you want me to be straight again" After which my parents say: "We want you to exercise more so you can be prepared mentaly and physically against people who don't accept you" And yes, special snowflakiness is one of the criticisms. It's not associated with the fact that he's gay, but it's definitely blown up after he came out. I think it's a really good idea for him to join EC. I talked to him briefly about it but he refused saying that he'd just "bitch about his parents" ._. I'll try to reason with him more.
Tell him that is what it is for, to bitch and vent and have people tell you about their exact same experiences, or at the very least similar ones... That is why EC is here.... for an outlet exactly like you just described.. Special snowflakiness was definitely a mistake... I know hindsight is 20/20, but it definitely sounds at least a little homophobic.. It probably made it a little harder to come out tbh... Im not positive what the right answer is, but I think I know what I would do... I cringe to say "tough love" because tough is so relative and some peoples tough is simply cruel... But I think someone just needs to sit him down about the working out thing and tell him basically something like, "You know, life isnt fair, I know you didnt choose to be gay, but it is because your gay. You need to be prepared for everything life is going to throw your way... Life is stressful enough without dealing with LGBT related discrimination... That means it is even more important that you have outlets to relieve stress like working out and exercising. That means being sufficient at defending yourself or at the very least being big/sturdy enough to take a punch without being seriously injured. Emotionally healthy enough not to get overcome when someone harrasses you. People can suck sometimes, and you need to start hoping for the best, but preparing for the worst." IDK if that is consider tough love to others, but it sort of puts empathy aside and tells him the cold hard truth... despite it coming from a place of love... And I know it wouldnt be the exact same, but I think it kinda illustrates the spirit of what I mean.. That thinking about him liking girls should just stop if possible. The thing is, it is possible he will find out he is also attracted to girls... He could find out that while physically attraced to guys he is romantically attracted to girls. He could find out a lot of things... But the bottom line is, right now, he wants you to know he is gay. Just respect the fact he was brave enough to tell you all, and let him identify the way he wants without external pressure coming from the family, their is already enough external pressure all around in society.... He is young, and he is clearly still on the journey of self discovery, dont squelch that. Let him figure himself out in his own time, let him self identify Also, along with working out, I know it can be hard for smaller people to gain weight.. I had the opposite problem lol, I was always a big guy, so when I start working out I am trying to get smaller, which is probably harder in the work out, but easier with the diet... In other words, I just have to eat a little less, to gain any sort of significant mass, you guys will have to eat a lot... well he will, I know girls want that trim lean look, and I get the feelings your parents are pressuring you so that he doesnt feel singled out... I might consider working out with him for some more of that sibling bonding But seriously, if he is trying to gain mass, lots of chicken and beef... Eggs are good (moderation though), cheese, peanut butter (with celery instead of sandwiches), and greek yogurt (twice the protein as regular)... Lots of all those but eggs... eggs are bad for cholesterol so even at a young age you shouldnt eat too many... In other words, working out is not usually enough to gain mass unless your eating extra... your normal dietary intake most likely wont come close to cutting it.. This is just something I thought I would mention... There is also the option of self defense classes, which I think would be easier, and would help with his self confidence a lot... It will keep him in shape obviously, but he wont necessarily get bigger... but he will learn to defend himself to that is not a risk anymore.... You might even talk to your parents about you two both signing up for classes together.. You have the 2 added bonuses of that precious sibling bonding time AND you have a sparring partner at home. So when the inevitable ass hole in your self defense class starts winning your sparring matches, you can practice at home and kick their ass Im not sure what I would recommend as for style off hand, I am sure you can look into it and come up with something, but if not I can always come back after I consider it some... I was always bigger so I think I would ask my buddy because he was in self defense big time and much smaller, but I cant remember the style he used... If you want me to ask, just let me know, because I do remember his training was pretty solid, I have seen him take on 3 guys at a time for 5 minutes, and then they rotate 3 new guys in for 5 minutes, and he did that for 45 minutes successfully defending against 3 at a time... and he was only like 145 pounds... Anyways, that was a bit of a tangent... Lastly, it is really cool to hear your getting along so well while your brother is going through this tough time... He may not ever thank you (that is just how brothers are usually), but he will always appreciate you for it (that is just how brothers are usually ). I would be willing to bet your relationship will evolve into something like an even closer GBF relationship... Is he any good at fashion? You coming here just shows what a good big sister you are. I really hope he is willing to come here because he can get a lot from these forums, but I also hope you will continue to come here. Especially if your brother gets on your nerves and you need to vent, or anything like that Feel free to message me on my wall or have your brother message me on my wall if either of you want to talk.. I will also check here and post if I have anything I can add ---------- Post added 26th Sep 2016 at 02:11 AM ---------- the "but it is because your gay" part is saying they are hounding him to workout because he is gay, but not to convert him, but rather to prepare him... just in case that was unclear...
Tough love is tough Imma sit down with him again and talk about EC and the whole working out thing. It'll probably go better if it's just me The only problem is that I'm not entirely sure how to bring up the topic without starting off with "I was discussing on this form..." He might get defensive again... Any tips...? Self defense classes would be interesting As kids my brother and I would just do some novice wrestling. Thanks a lot for the advice and help! It's helped me think things through a little more, and I'm really glad I joined EC :3. I doubt anything will go as planned but at least I have a track now
I might say you went to PFLAG, it is specifically meant for support for family (and friends ) I know it is a small fib, although if you wanted you should check it out and then it wont be a fib . Anyways, you can then say you wanted to make sure you were being as accepting as possible or you wanted advice on how to work with you or you know, something cheesy and heartfelt that makes him realize you were being a good big sister and trying to find out how to help him with everything he is going through... Cant stress the self defense classes enough... It is hard to go against genetics, but working with what your given is not as hard... You should maybe even say that PFLAG people suggested you mention this forum... It might lend some credibility in case your brother is still unsure.. You might want to talk to the moderators about deleting this thread first though, I would hate to have him find it... I am fairly confident they have done things like this in the past when a parent wants to have their child come here without worrying about them seeing something embarrassing about themselves online... Im sure a sibling can too.. well not sure, but I would assume... Glad to hear your feeling better, feel free to post on my wall or here if you need anything else... I will try to help out
My first impression is that everyone here is trying, and it's communication that's breaking down. The parents may feel initial loss at the notion their son won't live a traditional heterosexual life. The parents will need time to adjust and this isn't easy or automatic. The son also needs to understand that this will take some time. My advice is to seek out a local chapter of PFLAG (Parents, Friends, and Families of Lesbians and Gays). In Seattle there are several. This organization works wonders for families. Patrick Seattle, WA
Thanks both of you! I talked about joining EC with my brother, and he brought up an interesting opinion of how he kinda wants to try to ignore his being gay for awhile and let the issues sit in the back of his mind. So he's not really open to joining PFLAG nor EC Any thoughts?
Apologies if I've missed it, but how old is this guy? If he's young enough that he may not yet know his sexual orientation, then that needs time. If he is old enough that he does know his orientation, then the question might be one of acceptance. In any case I would not recommend coming out or going further unless he's 100% sure he's gay.
There could be any number of reasons he wants to do that... But I would simply try reminding him it is anonymous, he doesnt have to get any sort of identifying information, and it might be a good place to check out... Even if he doesnt post just reading some of these forums might help... he can just read until he feels comfortable... But I bet it wouldnt take long, I have never seen a response that was intentionally just rude, or mean, or anything like that... Everyone here is pretty accepting... Just make sure you get this thread taken out before he joins if you convince him... I believe any of the forum staff can do that...
My brother's 13. Not sure if being 13 is "old enough" tho He knows forums are usually anonymous . He says that he feels guilty for coming out so early to our parents (they think 13 is a bit young to be 100% sure), and wants to avoid anything that reminds him that he's gay, or that he came out. He's a complicated person. I don't think I'll be able to explain/persuade him to join EC anytime soon considering how I don't even know a lot about his personality.
Hey A OK, I’m an EC friend of ABeautifulMind. What do you mean by saying you’re “not sure if 13 is ‘old enough’? He’s certainly at the minimum age at to get his own account on EC. As far as his age goes, as well as him Coming Out. Well, each of us has to decide when/if we do that on our own terms. 13 is certainly not ‘too early’. Each of us come to understand our own sexuality on our own timeline. But most of us understand around the age of puberty that we are at least ‘different’ from our peers. As far as feeling guilty goes, we can help there, too. Many of us feel guilty because we are taught by society and our families that being homosexual is wrong. It’s not even uncommon for us to apologize to our parents when we Come Out for “disappointing” them by not being straight. But what your brother has to realize, and ultimately accept, is that he was born the way he is and that nothing can change that and he also has nothing to apologize for nor feel guilty about. The sooner he understands, accepts, and embraces his sexuality, the sooner he will be on the road to being a happier person. (Not that homosexuals don’t still face challenges even in our modern world.) If he’s saying that he’s still questioning, he shouldn’t feel embarrassed, but this is all the more reason to get on EC to discuss his thoughts/issues/questions with others who have knowledge and experience in the LGBTQ world. And who can help him with any sexual identity issues he may have. All of us are unique – and therefore complicated – individuals. This site is primarily aimed at trying to help those who question their sexual identity, those who are having problems with their sexual identity, and those who are considering Coming Out. Your brother certainly belongs on this site, if only to help him relieve some stress and know that he is not alone. If possible, I would suggest that you print this post and show it to him. If not, then please tell him what I said here. Take Care.
I dont think she wants to tell him that she is on EC discussing him is the problem.. Trust me, if he came out, and he is 13, he is sure... He just doesnt like the reaction... I have NEVER heard of someone coming out as gay at that age and then realizing they werent... We USUALLY know something by then... We may not be sure if we are gay or bi, because he may like girls too, but he knows he likes boys for sure... I am only pointing that out so that you are aware, you dont have to express that to him or anything, it might be better not to, and let him do his thing... But make no mistake, he knows something. ---------- Post added 30th Sep 2016 at 03:30 AM ---------- I almost forgot, what quantum said though is absolutely correct, these forums are here exactly for cases like your brothers... We are here as a resource to be able to vent, complain, or share experiences with, as well as receive support and advice... Everyone on these forums has had experiences that occur more frequently than you might think... We have been there in our youth, and we know what we wanted to hear to make it at least feel better.. In some rare cases, we know what we needed to hear when we were younger, to convince us to reach out for help when we needed it... And thus when needed occasionally we can get people to reach for help from friends or family in their life... But we do it all through support and encouragement. Somewhere you can find a privacy policy that explains that complete anonymity is guaranteed, they take that very seriously because of the nature of our community... Its actually a stronger privacy policy than the average forum... So he may not realize just how anonymous or private it really is...
Sorry I've been so busy and my replies are so inconsistent... Please bear with me. @Quantum My brother's mostly been apologizing not only because he feels like he disappointed my parents, but also that he regrets coming out because it's caused some pain and strain on our parents. He thinks that he should've come out later like at 18. I don't know though... coming out early or later can have its own unseen benefits/consequences. @Beautiful Now I can tell my parents it's not just a phase. (I don't really know what's it's like since I'm like 95% straight but this is a good affirmation). EC's really helped me and given me peace of mind, but I'm not sure if it'll help my brother right now. Every time I bring up the topic he gets reluctant and sad because he kinda wants to forget all the issues that are associated to his coming out. On the other hand, my dad and my brother have been getting therapy sessions! Not together though, since they're trying to do things on their own for awhile. From what I've heard tho, my brother doesn't really talk about coming out with his therapist - something I found surprising since his therapist is also part of the LGBT community. It looks to me as if bringing up the subject isn't the wisest choice right now - maybe lay low and slowly progress once things get moving?
That isn't uncommon. LGBT children can often think that they are letting their parents down by not being straight. But, of course, he isn't making a choice here, so that self-blame is useless and counterproductive. As far as when to Come Out is concerned, a person should Come Out whenever he or she is ready. It's a personal decision. But trying to go back into the closet after Coming Out presents it's own problems. Your brother can outwardly pretend it didn't happen, but that doesn't change his personal reality and will only cause him unnecessary frustration and possibly psychological issues. That is rather disturbing. It really does seem like your brother is trying to undo his Coming Out. If he keeps this bottled up he is likely to grow even more distant from the family and even become extremely resentful. Plus, as I mentioned above, it could cause him psychological harm because he can't openly be the person that he really is. I don't know what your relationship with your brother is like right at this moment, but if you see an opening to talk to him about this, maybe you can show him your continued support as well as try to explain to him that the issue isn't going to go away and bottling it back up won't solve anything. Communication between your brother and your parents really does seem to be the stumbling block here. I know the PFLAG idea was sort of floated earlier. Do you think your parents would be willing to look into a local PFLAG chapter? They are built to help parents and family members deal with these kinds of situations. I wish you and your family the best of luck!
I have been super distracted in my daily life, but I wanted to come and comment on one small issue I did notice, and then of course see where the post takes me So, the only issue I saw off hand, was that you said he doesnt talk to his therapist about anything with coming out, and I am assuming that means he doesnt talk about anything related to LGBT with the therapist? The way its phrased I cant tell if the therapist knows he is LGBT... It can be hard to trust a therapist right away, but he will inevitably need to tell them if he hasnt... Otherwise I doubt how effective the therapy will be with helping this situation.... So I guess my question would be, does his therapist know he is gay/bi, as well as, was your brother the one who told them? Depending on the response my follow up would be is your brother aware the therapist knows? Encouraging your brother to open up may be the only way you can help him here though.... Therapy tends to be very personal by the very nature of the beast... But just telling him and reinforcing that therapy actually has vegas style rules can really help him open up... Just keep telling him, what happens in therapy stays in therapy... He doesnt have to share anything from therapy outside of therapy, but if he wants to figure shit out and really improve, he needs to be open in therapy... Maybe not for the first few sessions, but eventually... When he has a chance to get comfortable with the therapist... I think that is what you mean by laying low and slowly progressing... But inevitably to make real progress he will have to open up... Also, by just "forgetting" everything, it sounds an awful lot like suppressing everything, which can have pretty terrible long term effects on mental health... I might suggest reminding him that there is nothing wrong with being gay when he says things like that, and maybe even tell him his challenge is to try and be himself, there job is to accept him, he is just better at his job than they are... Not exactly that, but you get the idea, something to make him realize he hasnt done anything wrong... Maybe something like the "issues" that have come up are not really his "issues" but your parent's "issues"... You might even start telling him these things without trying to convince him of anything... What I mean is, instead of telling him these are your parents issues when you try to convince him to join EC, just tell him these are your parents issues... Then in a few weeks after you have reinforced that idea, then bring up EC and when you remind him those are your parents issues, it might have been reinforced enough to really make an impact.... These are just some ideas I have been kinda considering, and some that just came to me... Let me know if it helps
Thanks a looot. I didn't know that not talking about being lgbt could be harmful to his mental health, but yeah he's been trying to stay off the topic with my parents and me. x.x Scratch what I said before about my brother not talking about his sexuality - when i asked him before he said that but it seems like he's opening up a little more with his therapist However, I don't believe his sexuality is usually the main topic of their conversation, unless it's strongly related to his anxiety. Again, as you all said, what happens in therapy stays in therapy... I'm hoping that my family will join PFLAG later once they're more comfortable around each other with talking about my brother's sexuality Right now seems a bit much of a jump since they've just started individual therapy.
