Hello. My name's Dan, I signed up a few days ago, just convinced myself to jump in the deep end and post. I'm 23 years old, and I've been living in the closet for a few years now. I'm actually surprised I didn't stumble upon this site sooner - I've spent a lot of time surfing the internet trying to come to terms with my sexuality. I apologise in advance - I'm going to take this opportunity and firstly spill several year's worth of baggage I've been carrying on my shoulders. I'm going to encapsulate my life story with stars so only the truly devoted can challenge their sanity. *********************************************************** When I was 9 my parents gave me a book on the birds and the bees. Unfortunately, as none of that becoming interested in girls stuff really applied to me, I read the book, put it aside, and I ended up not really understanding the significance. So, when I was 11, and had masturbated for the first time, I really didn't understand what I'd done, but as I'd deduced I hadn't injured myself or anything, it was ok. Then when I was about 13-14, the topic arose at the private christian school I went to, (I was a full on christian back in the day, but have since shifted to agnosticism and then atheism) so I realised that what I was doing several times a day was morally objectionable. So I confessed my sin, yet, I didn't mention that I thought about men when I did it - I honestly didn't think that was an issue, in hindsight I think that's kind of hilarious. Then, when I was about 15 or so the school encouraged formals with girls it was becoming clear I needed to take an interest. But I just enjoyed thinking about men so much I always assumed it was something I would grow out of. But I never did - and no one seemed to notice, as a tv/movie geek I wasn't stereotypically supposed to get with girls. I mean, there were times when I wanted to be friends with girls, and in my naivety I thought maybe it was love, but I think now it just showed that not having ever talked to someone about sexuality only meant I didn't understand what was going on. Don't worry, I've learned a lot the hard way, and the internet's kind of taken care of the rest, so I am at this point more or less up to speed. So, when I was at university, I made the decision that I would stay in the closet until I finish my degree and then when I move out, and start living as a gay person it would perhaps then be a lot easier to come out. Or something. Satisfying my urges worked fine. At least it was. When I was 21 I had a dream once with none of the sexual stuff. I was just held by some fantasy man. And when I awoke it was like the best dream I'd had in a long time. After that, I began noticing the fantasies wouldn't end after the deed was done. I began thinking about more romantic stuff. Suddenly I couldn't switch it off anymore. And I was thinking about it all the time. And we're talking like 24/7. I put up with it for a few long years. 10 months ago, I actually worked up the courage to send an email to the gay support group at the university I go to, and they recommended some readings and councillors and encouraged me to visit the gay clubroom. I actually went once, but, and it's not that I'm a recluse, but definitely a hardcore geek, that I didn't really feel at home - most people talking about their party / sexual adventures, and I'm not really into clubbing and I certainly have no sexual experience (Drew Barrymore's character was 25 in Never Been Kissed, I have 2 years left) and I didn't really feel like downing the atmosphere by spilling my problems. So i opted to see a councillor. Talking with him, I received the usual advice I'd found trawling the internet for support, but it made me feel good that for the first time I'd done something about it. However, whilst I thought it was insignificant at the time - the councillor asked me whether I was experiencing any crushes on people close to me. I'd said no, mainly because I didn't think of my friends in such a way because most of my friends are straight and there was no way I'd jeopardize the friendship by coming out with any feelings for them. After meeting with the councillor, I'd felt like I'd begun walking the road to coming out. I'd received newfound confidence and for the first time in ages I had self esteem. I felt good about being me. Yet, the more I thought about it the more I knew I wanted to come out. So badly. However, my family, the super-mega-christians that they are, I couldn't help but feel I would be rejected. And so I started to get depressed. Like in the sense that I probably wasn't just sad I was actually depressed. I'd even lost interest in all the activities I usually enjoy. I guess my parents picked up on it because one day my mum comes into my room and tries to fish it out of me. And then I told her. We talked about it for a while, but as it was late at night it was a conversation to be continued the next day. At first I was exhilarated. "I can't believe I'm told her." But then it kind of hit me. "I can't believe I told her." I knew that everything was going to change, and I wasn't ready. I really wasn't. So the next day, (and after so many years, it's not like I'm not used to lying) I made up a sob story about how I'm just so unlucky with girls - mentioning the few "crushes" I'd had in my high school days but being too nervous to do anything about it, and she bought it. And for the next few months I acted as straight as possible to avoid the topic ever coming up again, which I suppose kept my mind busy, and eventually it worked. I could say I was completely back in the closet. Things I learned from that experience was that firstly, I couldn't go to my mum about confidential things as the first thing she did was tell my dad. Secondly, they told me that whilst they would love me unconditionally, they would never accept any man I had relations with. If I fell in love with someone I don't think that would be good enough for me. Thirdly, my parents said that if I really was gay, I shouldn't tell my twin brother as he would be devastated. That sucked, because I was (before my brother left home) really close to him, and I felt I could confide almost anything in him. And now I have this nagging suspicion that I can't. If my parents were trying to keep me in the closet, that was a well-played move. Also, my parents told me about an uncle who doesn't have much to do with the family (I see him at reunions occasionally but he's not close to his family) and my parents suspected it was because he was gay that he'd been excommunicated by his immediate family. (Aren't christian families awesome?) I thought though, that maybe I could confide in this uncle. Although he recently found himself a girlfriend, my hopes have been shattered (despite this being after years of single life, I think it better I don't approach the issue as I don't know him THAT well). So, for the time being, I probably won't come out to the family until I have to (like for the sake of a relationship or something) Okay, I'm nearly done. The last issue is the most recent, and has to do with the fact that up until now I'd never thought about my friends in a romantic way, mainly because they're all straight. Over the summer holidays I began fantasising over a friend from uni (who for me is the epitome of everything I dream of in a man - hairy, cuddly, and a total geek (I know - I'm completely hopeless)) and whilst I know that I needed to give up on the idea, I was just enjoying the crush. However, over the holidays I ended up building on the possibility that he might not actually be straight (again, a mistake. Geeks and girls don't mix anyways), but still, by the end of the holidays I'd completely warped my reality to the point where I thought maybe there was a one in a million chance. Of course, the first time we spoke after the break reality kicked in and his level of straightness became abundantly clear. However, he told me he'd been thinking of moving out and was looking for room-mates to share a flat. I immediately said yes. Then, common sense kicks in and I knew that my man-crush was the only reason I said yes, and as that was totally the wrong reason I backed out. So the issue was averted. But then, two weeks ago we were talking as we do, and eventually the issue was raised that I've had no sexual experience. I laughed and said that due to the lack of evidence I could quite possibly be gay. And whilst he jokingly said "right, I'm going to stand back now" I think then it became REALLY clear I had no chance with him. Also that people are going to be uncomfortable with the real me. The fantasy was over, and I think maybe my heart was just a little crushed. I mean, I really want someone. Someone I can be affectionate with. And I guess I really wanted it to be him. So, I grieved, and shortly afterwards I found EC. ************************************************************* Phew. I'm sorry for my life story - it felt amazing getting it all off my chest, and I applaud those (if any) who dared to suffer through it. At this point, I've read so much on homosexuality I'm a walking encyclopaedia. I guess, my main problem is that after all these years, whilst in the privacy of my own world, I'm comfortable with who I am, the real me is frightened of being exposed to the real world. Even talking with the university councillor, to refer to myself as gay felt, well, awkward. And when I really focus on the issue, I begin doubting myself. Wondering if maybe I'll still grow out of it. I mean, I haven't actually had a relationship with anyone. Is it possible that gayness is just a choice, and I could just choose to be straight. Outside the family the most physical contact I get with other people is a hand shake. Not to mention all the emotional barriers I keep up at all times. So do I really know for sure that I'm gay. I know - nonsense, right? Whilst outside of my ultra-conservative family I have friends who are genuinely accepting (there are people in my graduating year who've come out and my closest friends have otherwise been completely impartial) I'm so worried that just not having the emotional wall in place that - whilst I would like to think coming out wouldn't change me - that in their eyes I would. That, and the whole notion of a heterosexist society makes me feel uncomfortable for others having to put up with me if I decide to show affection for someone. So after bearing my soul out where does that leave me? I guess, feeling a lot like the cowardly lion. Am I ever going to find out I have the courage within my to accept myself for who I am and start living my life? I guess I'm the only one who can answer that, and I'd like to hope so. In the mean time, I think it would be for the best if I started getting more comfortable with who I am. I'm hoping to eventually buck up and start hanging out at the university's gay clubroom. It's the last year of my degree and I really need to start making the most of it. I guess a focus question for advice would be how do I ease myself from the closet into gay society as a bit of a geek. Also, feel free to leave any other comments you might have. I'm open to criticism and honesty, and any advice you might have. Oh, and most importantly, Thank You. --Dan
Well first of all welcome to EC Second of all (*hug*) And thirdly, what an amazing post! I have never seen someone opening their hearts up like you did. :eusa_clap that deserves an applause. The fact you have taken the time and courage to post your life story (or so it seems) here, I think, means you are in the process of accepting yourself, you just need a little help, and I remember getting that here so I am sure you will too. I have several comments on your post really and since you had a lot to say maybe I do too :icon_wink my first point is that I thought it was interesting you said you are not at all comfortable with calling yourself gay. I know exactly what you mean and I know there are plenty of people who feel the same way. (For me its harder to say in Dutch, my native language, than in English) Anyways, thats a point you should not worry about and I dont think you at all have to be comfortable with saying your gay to be comfortable with yourself. Secondly, being gay is not a choice, hence you actually have to learn to accept yourself, and for some that takes longer than for others. People come out when they have been married and divorced, and people come out when they haven't even left high school. It all depends on what you need as a person, you don't have to come out unless you are comfortable with it. At some point there might be a breaking point that you just start to cry and suddenly feel the bizar urge to come out and you actually do so. Take your time in discovering yourself. Don't rush things, you are still young :icon_wink Hope you get some good advice and good luck!
A great post. You are at a point most of us go through or have gone through. It's not the easiest thing to admit you're gay (or might be). Living in the society we do,it's a really scary thing,to be"different". I came out many years ago,but I had a lot of gay friends ,by then,so that did help,a lot. I think once you get to know more gay people ,it will help you feel more comfortable. It is a good idea to get involved with the GSA ,at your school.Then,you'll really be among your peers. I'm glad you found EC. This site has helped so many people and most here can relate to you and your struggles.And,best of all,you can be YOURSELF. Sometimes,it takes some time to know who you are. But ,it's much better when you're around others who "get it". Give yourself time and space. It's not a race. You can do things ,as you see fit. Stick around EC,for a while. If nothing else,you'll have a place to vent and talk to others who know what you're going through. The best of luck to you. And...welcome to the EC family!
Dan, first, welcome to EC. It is a great place, where you can talk about the issues you are now dealing with. Many of us have been exactly where you are now; you are certainly not alone in what you are experiencing. Read some of my prior posts, and you will see how I have evolved over the last year and a half. Being gay is not a choice. If you are gay, you cannot choose to be anything else, despite what some right-wing religious folks may try to tell you. I would not worry about coming out to others right now. You first need to get comfortable with your own sexuality. How do you know you are gay? Well, you just know. Are you attracted to woman? What do you think about when you masturbate? Do you look at a hot guy and think, “damn, he is hot?” Going to the gay clubroom sounds like a good idea. Even though you are shy, try to get the courage up to talk to people there. You may be surprised how open they are and that they went through, or are currently experiencing, similar things as you. As I was coming out, I found most gay men were totally open to talking about their experiences. Continuing with your counselor is a good idea also, so you have someone to talk to confidentially about your feelings. My therapist was immensely helpful. Also, you should consider joining the GSA at your school and going to their meetings. It is a great way to make friends with other gay men, potentially meet a boyfriend and get advice. Lastly, there are many EC members who went through the same thing as you. Turn to us for advice or to just vent. Good luck and welcome, again, to EC.
The point is... if you've always fantasised about men -not only physically but also emotionally- you're probably gay (or at least more than four in the Kinsey Scale :icon_wink). As for the rest, I wish I could say something helpful but I'm pretty much stuck in the same situation. But when I look at those who accept themselves and live their lives openly, I say to myself that no matter how hard it may be, my 'mission' is to reach that one day.
hi Dan it takes alot of courage to admit to yourself that your gay,first step and courage to put it to print,another step and talking with us,look at you -all the right steps to personal awareness,it gets easy and were here to make that a wonderful transition,the people here are of the best down to earth people you could talk to,welcome to our of the world.
Welcome to EC! First off, keep working on being comfortable with yourself. Say "I'm gay" into the mirror every morning until that knot in your stomach goes away. Let yourself think "gay thoughts". And, most importantly, ENJOY it. When you see an attractive guy, ENJOY seeing him. When you think gay thoughts, ENJOY thinking them. And when you masturbate thinking about a guy, or watching gay porn, ENJOY it. Go whole hog into it. And when you're done, take a couple minutes to ENJOY it, to enjoy the afterglow of it all. Because solo sex is still sex, and sex kicks ass, and when you think about the stuff that turns you on during solo sex, it kicks ass even more. Up next. Dirty little secret time. There's no such thing as gay society. Seriously. There are enclaves and cliques, some of which have more (or a LOT more) gays than others. If you hang out with drag queens, yeah, you'll find more gay guys than you will hanging out with football players. But there's gays and straights everywhere. You don't have to go to gay clubs or join groups to meet gay guys. I'm not saying you SHOULDN'T go to gay clubs or join groups, and I'm not saying these things aren't good - they certainly can be. But they're not the only way. If the gay student union interests you, by all means, go! They're bound to have a weekly "mixer" which is just a "come say hi and meet some people" sort of event. Stop by one, get to know a couple people. Share as much or as little as you'd like. Everyone in that room was in the closet at one point, and they'll understand if you don't feel like sharing everything (or anything) just yet. Next up, yes, it's a heterosexist society. But, for the most part, it's not a homophobic one anymore. So people will assume you're straight until proven otherwise. Why not? Law of averages says we all are. They'll just be wrong in your case. And I've found over the years that people will take a cue from you. If you treat your sexuality like no big deal, they'll treat it like it's no big deal. If you toss off a casual "actually, I'm gay", then continue on talking, they'll think "Wow! He's gay! But...everybody's just kind of accepting it. I guess I will, too." As far as the "choice" thing goes, I've mentioned this before, but I'll repeat it here for you. I did not choose to BE gay. It's in my wiring. I like guys. Sounds like it's part of your wiring, too. But I did choose to LIVE gay. I chose to live by my programming. I chose to come out, date guys, sleep with guys, and get partnered to one. And that's why I'm such a goddamn happy gargoyle. Let us know how else we can help you along. That's what this website is for, after all. Lex
I think that just like the cowardly lion you actually have all the bravery and inner strength you need already you just need to realise it and work out how to use it for your advantage. Posting your life story like that even just on a forum is an amazing step, take some time to get to know people here at EC, everyone is really friendly and you will work it all out
welcome and i think what everyone else said is pretty accurate- we got some really smart ppl on here who will help u out.
Hi Dan, Thanks for your post, it was very moving and I related to much of it. Welcome to EC; its a wonderful place, with lots of supportive people. Well done in making the first steps to being who you really are. Remember, nothing is more attractive than being who you really are. Peter
There isn't much more to say that the others haven't already said, we'll here to talk if you want to. It was a bit much to read but I struggled through I think you need to come to terms with the probablity that you are gay, cause it's not a choice it just happens, and none of us really know why. plenty of people here have been going through or are currently going through the same or a similar thing!
(*hug*) That was an incredible story you posted Dan, it takes courage to bare your soul like that to a bunch of people you don't even know, even though this has to be the most accepting bunch of people I've ever had the pleasure to be a part of. I have a question for you, do you still live at home with your parents, or are you in some form of student accommodation? If I were you, I would have accepted my friend's request to live with him because, even though he is not (or appears not to be) gay it would be a major step towards independence which I think you could do with. I certainly do not intend to live at home after I finish school (when I turn 16). This isn't meant as a jab at you, but I think it would help you to be yourself more and to live by your own rules, as a homosexual. Don't force coming out though, start by telling a close friend, somebody you can trust and who you know will accept you for who you are, it is the best feeling in the world to tell somebody and have them accept you. I completely understand the apprehension towards doing so, but in this case I say go for it. It is a feeling like no other, like an enormous weight has been lifted from your shoulders. Like you can finally be yourself when you aren't alone. Thank you for allowing us into your life in such intimate detail, and welcome to EC, I hope you find friends among us. --Jonny
Wow, that's an impressive post. Filled with honesty and self-exploration. I applaud you for baring yourself so :eusa_clap In such a long post, there are for each of us points that jump out. I'll just respond to those things that got me thinking: - Your brother being devastated about it should you tell him? I call major emotional blackmail here. Truth is, in many cases, parents have literally no idea how their kids think. If you feel that you can confide in him, it's most probably you that will have the right idea. All I heard from the friends I came out to first was: "Don't tell your brother, he'll react badly, I'm sure of it". And I'm sure my mom would have the same idea. I came out to him anyway, and know what? He figured it out years ago and decided to let me come out at my own pace. He took it shruggingly, and has made the least fuss about it of anyone I know. - Coming out to your friends and "changing": is this a bad thing? Do they really prefer you not changing even if you're tearing up inside? Yes, you'll change a bit: you'll be more honest to them. And nothing more. Just like you're now not talking about being straight to them, your being gay will not come up all that often, probably. At first it feels a bit strange, like being naked, but it definitely trumps the imprisoned feeling that came before, trust me. - In my experience, it does help to go out to a gay bar or club. You'll see people from all walks of life having fun, and being gay without remorse. For me it really helped. I can only speak for myself, but if you're geeky it's sometimes difficult to put yourself over the "geek fallacy": "I'm a geek and thus not interested in the diversions of the uncouth masses." I know I was like this and it took me some time to get myself unstuck and actually go out. But in the end it was a major eye-opener, and a big help. And as a final note: there's no timeframe. You might have two years before you're behind "never been kissed", but thatr's not the reference (I hope, otherwise I'm already past my shelf life :lol. If it takes some time, that's not a big issue, as long as you do it at your own pace.
Hi Dan. Welcome to EC from Jim in Toronto. You'll notice, from my stats, that I'm older than you are. I was in my mid 30s before I had the courage to come out to myself and others. So the fact that you're doing that now shows tremendous insight on your part. And you're doing that despite all the negative messages you've received growing up. All this shows courage. Good for you. Don't worry about imposing yourself on a hetrosexual society. I don't like to cause a scene either, but the fact of the matter is I'm far happier now with a male partner than I've ever been. And while we don't make out and grind against each other when we're at the mall, we do go out together, and we're likely fairly obviously a couple. But that's OK. Anyone that isn't OK with it isn't 'OK' in my books, and they need to work on themselves - not the other way around. Just hang around here in EC. It's often the first place many of us were able to talk about how we were feeling on this topic. And receive feedback that was positive and encouraging and from people that had 'been there, done that' already. It's a wonderful site, so I hope you make the most of it. Thanks for sharing your story. It was extremely well written! I read the whole thing, and it certainly shares elements of my own personal story. And to your question - "how to fit into the 'gay society' as a geek". As Lex said, there isn't a 'gay society'. It is made up of all types of people who have only one thing in common - they're gay. I feel like I fit in just fine. And I'm a separated father of 2 who is a professional accountant (talk about geeky) and who holds a senior finance position in a large Canadian corporation. I suck at sports but can't really dress myself either. I am a car enthusiast but don't like to get dirty doing any maintenance. My boyfriend is a university professor who also has 2 kids, plays squash, plays piano, and loves to cook. We're all different, but we're all gay. There aren't really any prerequisites other than your attraction to the same sex. Some of us just might be a little more obviously gay than others. Take care, and keep posting here. If you ever want to or need to talk, you can send me a private message as one of the site moderators. Good luck! And again, welcome!!!
very cool story dan. The only thing i would add that has been said so far is i know how you feel about being called gay. Even though i have come to terms with having homosexual feelings, being called gay by someone almost feels like a stab in the back. It like they took a giant label and threw it at you. I guess its just the stigmata that is attached to societies current view of homosexuality.
Hi I think that EC is going to help you a lot there are tons of nice helpful people here. I understand how hard it is to say I'm gay I can say it my head I can wright it down but to speak the words out loud feels odd for me so I think we all can relate to your feelings.
Thanks for all the feedback. I felt embarrassed after writing a big post like that. I've just kept it bottled up for too long. I'm probably going to hold on a copy though. I think if I ever come out for real, I might turn it into a letter so that people might have an insight as to what it's been like for me all this time. I think the worst thing is just lying to everyone, especially those I'm closest to, and sometimes I worry that it's not so much the shock that I'm gay but rather the fact that I kept it from everyone for so long. Sometimes I think it'd be easier to come out as bisexual, or to announce that I only just realised I was gay, to soften the blow, but ultimately that would cheapen the whole thing. When I come out it needs to be honest. A letter like this might help them understand, or something, when the time comes. @kettleoffish - yes, I still live at home, just because it was convenient while I was at uni. This is actually my last year of study, assuming I don't go on to do post-grad, but even so, I'm definitely moving out at the end of the year. Despite the advantages of living at home I crave the independence. And I don't think I could move in with my friend on account of the fact that I want him too darn much. (Sigh - this is why I desperately need to meet some gay people)
I don't think you'll find a single 'coming out' story here where the friend of family member said "I'm totally cool with the fact that you're gay, but I'm never speaking to you again because you didn't tell me sooner!" Most people understand that it takes a lot for us to come to this realization, and then develop the courage to come out. They will understand that it takes time, and they won't call you out on times where you've lied. You'll be OK.