1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

How can a gay person say this?

Discussion in 'Coming Out Advice' started by UCLA77, Apr 1, 2009.

  1. UCLA77

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2009
    Messages:
    90
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Straight
    I watched a video on youtube that was posted in one of these threads. It was about people hating to be gay, or something like that. It was a married couple, and the husband was gay. I don't know if anyone here remembers my posts from a few months ago. For the record, I'm a straight man and my ex-girlfriend came out as a lesbian last summer.

    Anyway...

    Since she came out, I have been reading a lot about coming out stories, why people are gay, etc, etc. And this video confused me, because I don't understand how a "gay" man can have sex with a woman and still call himself "gay." Not only sex, but how can a supposed gay man have romantic feelings for a woman? Shouldn't he just call himself bisexual? Or is it just from my ignorant straight-person perspective that this seems a little weird?

    He even said he falls in love with a person and not the fact that they're male or female. Well isn't that basically something that EVERY bisexual person can say? Doens't that describe bisexuality? I mean, I sure can't say that, I would never say that. And I assumed that people who are truly gay can never say that either. If you're capable of falling in love with anyone, regardless of gender, how can you say you're homosexual, or heterosexual for that matter?
     
  2. The Enigma

    The Enigma Guest

    He might be bi. But honestly, the thing is...I believe that having sex with another male doesn't make you gay. It's if you have feelings for another male. A good example is prison rape. All those gang bangers don't consider themselves gay. Why? Because the rapists are men they believe the dominant one retains his masculinity regardless. It can also happen with two straight people or young boys who experiment. However, some people can also love someone for psychological reasons. Like, to make the family approve of him. To hide his homoerotic desires and such.

    But I dunno for you. It could be a mix or none of the above.
     
  3. Greggers

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2008
    Messages:
    2,698
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    BC, Canada
    You would be referring to the Tyra Banks episode were she had various gay people who wanted to be straight on iut, and she had a guest couple of a man and a woman who were married but the man identified as gay.

    So, as for the him not truly being gay but bisexual...

    There is not JUST three categories: 100% straight - 50% both - 100% gay. You can be a bisexual male who physically and emotionally wants to be with a man, but still have feelings for women just on a much lesser scale. If this type of a man was with a woman, it would be a functioning relationship, but he would still long for that male relationship much much more than his current female one - eventually turning his life into a living hell. So yes, he is tecnicly bisexual, but he could identify as Gay for the sole reason he wont be 100% happy unless he is with a man, even though he could be with either gender.

    To put it in simple terms - Say you like Chocolate AND Vanilla ice-cream. You like Chocolate more than Vanilla, but you like both. Every day you go to the store you see both flavors, but because your friends always have vanilla you always choose vanilla. You like it, but you deeply urn for Chocolate the entire time. Its right there too, and the only thing stopping you is your commitment to eating Vanilla every day, even though this goes against your true feelings. If you could choose one without any bad outcome either way, would you not choose your favorite of the two every time?
     
  4. Lexington

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2007
    Messages:
    11,409
    Likes Received:
    11
    Location:
    Colorado
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    >>>I believe that having sex with another male doesn't make you gay.

    Funny. I saw an interview with Marilyn Manson last night in which he said "I've sucked another man off before, but I didn't have a hard-on, so I'm safe." ("Safe?") And I've been on another website where a guy says he's only interest in topping effeminate guys, which means he's not gay in the slightest.

    Lex
     
  5. I can only really explain it to you according to how my severely fractured psyche works. I can have sex with anyone. True story. Gender doesn't matter. But I also don't fall in love with either gender. It's also sort of like people who are like "Gay sex, Hetero love." For them one gender is more sexually compatible and the other is more emotionally compatible.
     
  6. UCLA77

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2009
    Messages:
    90
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Straight
    I kind of get it, I kind of don't. I'm trying to understand, but I feel like this stuff is over my head!

    I guess I never knew that people who call themselves gay would want to have sex with someone of the opposite sex. A lot of people hear "gay" and just immediately think of the sex part of it.

    They don't consider the fact that being gay is more than sex, and that it's about emotionally and romantic attraction and feelings. Until recently, I was one of those people. So this is all new to me and even though my ex is not in my life now, I'm still trying to wrap my mind around all this.
     
  7. Paralyzer

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2008
    Messages:
    371
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Virginia
    It's a touchy subject for both heterosexuals and homosexuals. The fight behind sexuality is that you love the person and not the gender because people want to define something like marraige as between a man and a women and homosexuals argue "person not gender" to establish equality among everyone. With the details of the man in subject's orientation, without following a widely accepted sexuality scale, I would say he has more than less the right to go by as gay than bi due to his internal emotions and instinct towards the same sex. He appreciates his wife for who she is and her beauty, but instinctively he is indifferent to sexual relations with her. I think the couple even said it would have been better if they had just stayed best friends.

    That case is a thin line, technicality situation that confuses even myself... But of course this is all my opinion, based on my own instinct and experience.
     
  8. Lexington

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2007
    Messages:
    11,409
    Likes Received:
    11
    Location:
    Colorado
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    >>>I guess I never knew that people who call themselves gay would want to have sex with someone of the opposite sex. A lot of people hear "gay" and just immediately think of the sex part of it.

    There was a hypothetical situation floated my way.

    I have a female friend. Really like her, but I'm not attracted to her sexually (you know, being female and all). But then I found out she'd only had one sexual partner in her life, and he was pretty crappy to boot. We got talking, and I told her that IF I wasn't partnered, and IF we lived near each other, and IF she was willing, I'd gladly have sex with her. Not because I find her sexually alluring, but because I want her to have a positive sexual experience, and I think I'd be able to provide that for her. However, even if I did so, I don't think that would make me bisexual. I'd still consider myself gay.

    ...and luckily, she since found a guy to rock her world. :slight_smile:

    Lex
     
  9. UCLA77

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2009
    Messages:
    90
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Straight
    So are you saying that since you wouldn't have the feelings there for her, that you could still have sex with her, and still be gay?
     
  10. Lexington

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2007
    Messages:
    11,409
    Likes Received:
    11
    Location:
    Colorado
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    The thing is - I DO have feelings for her. But they're not sexual ones. I don't lust after her. If I did have sex with her, it'd be in the hopes of giving her a positive sexual experience. And thus, I don't think having sex with her would alter my gay status at all.

    Lex
     
  11. UCLA77

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2009
    Messages:
    90
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Straight
    Well for anyone who remembers my other posts about my lesbian ex, part of what's confusing me here is how the guy in the video said that he falls in love with people and not genders.

    Because one of the many things my ex said was that she tried to change being gay, she tried to ignore it for me so we could be together, etc. She told me that she tried to believe that the fact that we were together should be the most important thing, and that fact should override everything else, but in the end, she couldn't ignore it anymore.

    So then I see a video of a supposed gay guy saying that he's married to a woman because the fact that they're best friends and together is more important than the fact that she's a woman and he is gay. Do you see what I'm getting at?

    I mean maybe the couple in the video is a rare case. But in a way, it makes me wonder why this guy is gay and able to be with a woman, and my ex is a lesbian and not able to be with me. I would never want her to ignore her true feelings just to be with me. I'd never want her to do that, and I would always want her to be herself and who she really is, but at the same time, it makes me wonder.
     
  12. Mysterons

    Mysterons Guest

    Sorry for the off-topic but... did he really say that? I mean, Marilyn Manson, the one who released an album whose cover features him with a pair of boobs and a vagina, talking about being 'safe'? If there's a person I would've deemed more open-minded, that was him. You never can tell!
     
  13. kramer362

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2007
    Messages:
    385
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    western new york
    I think in the case of the man you are talking about it's something they are both happy with at the moment, but in the long term it's probably not going to work out. I mean it could, but it would seem eventually one or both of them would wanna be with someone they are romantically and sexually interested in. It's not enough to have a strong affection for a person if your body isn't wired to be interested in that gender. Even if you're capable of having sex with them and you enjoy cuddling and all that, it isn't necessarily enough. Eventually the fact that a couple has a best friends dynamic is going to be noticeable to one or both of them when they look at a couple who isn't just best friends, and get jealous.

    And coincidentally I have seen this exact thing happen in real life, with what I consider my second family. They were my neighbors when I was in middle school and high school, and I became very close with the whole family, consisting of a girl my age, and her mom and stepdad. The stepdad had a stereotypically gay demeanor in a lot of ways, apparent to me from the beginning. But when I saw him with his wife, I thought it was awesome how close they were and never fought or anything (I come from a home where arguing involves screaming at the top of your lungs so it was a welcome escape). They did everything together, and perhaps I was a little too close because I knew for a fact they did have sex. But there were clues, besides using stereotypes that clued me and my neighbor (the girl my age) in on him actually being gay. We found gay porn on their family computer, among a few other things.

    I think deep down his wife always knew, and thought she could be happy in the marriage. I mean they were best friends basically who just had sex occasionally. But eventually she got sick of it, and left. I think she got tired of being in a relationship with someone who didn't have a true romantic interest in her, even if they did have sex.

    I think everyone deserves to have their feelings returned when they're in a relationship, so even if for example the woman in the relationship with the gay man that you saw was content, I feel like eventually she would feel shortchanged because her spouse doesn't love her the same way she loves him. A woman deserves to be with a man without wondering 'does he imagine he's fucking a man and not me?' I mean I'm sure a person can be content in a best friends type of marriage or romantic relationship, but it's in a way not allowing either person to be all they can be I guess? In that couple's case, I feel like eventually the man would be envious of anyone who has a gay relationship, and the woman would envy any woman who has a straight man who is sexually attracted to her. I mean ask yourself, assuming there were no discrimination in the world (if only), would you pursue a romantic relationship with your best buddy if you had everything in common and never got sick of being around him, if you never found the right woman?

    and holy shit that was a long post but its a subject that really hits home with me since my neighbors were like a second family to me, and it's almost like my own parents divorce all over again, because now I have to visit them separately and its tougher to maintain contact.
     
    #13 kramer362, Apr 1, 2009
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2009
  14. Filip

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2009
    Messages:
    2,355
    Likes Received:
    105
    Location:
    Belgium, EU
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    For the longest time, I thought that a set-up like this could work. I thought of marrying a good female friend who seemed never to really be romantically involved with anyone, and live as a straight couple. My plan was to be attentive enough, bringing the occasional flower, chocolates, surprise weekend outings etc... In case of sex, its' not as if I actively despise the idea of having sex with a woman, so I was convinced I could do it if that was what she needed. And I would want children someday, so a set-up like this would make that easier.

    But then it hit me: the reason why I wanted to do this was not because I loved her. It was because I was in love with the idea of leading a straight life. Of being "normal" and "fitting in". And if I would have ever gone through with this plan, it would have been just going to the motions to imitate a supposedly straight life as true as possible. I even thought about it in terms of telling her the truth and discussing terms and clauses to the agreement.

    It could have worked, supposedly. In many ways it might have been more stable than many straight relationships I know of. But ultimately, it would have been built on sand. God help me if I ever fell in love with a man that would love me back. The intensity of that would possibly either make me break the arrangement. And even if I kept it, I might have started to resent her. And that's not taking into account what might have happened if she truly fell in love with someone else.

    I understand that falling in love with other people happens in straight couples too. But often these have the glue of being in love with each other too. A "mutually beneficial arrangement" would not have had that glue and would have been liable to fall apart at any serious push...
     
  15. Lexington

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2007
    Messages:
    11,409
    Likes Received:
    11
    Location:
    Colorado
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    >>>Sorry for the off-topic but... did he really say that? I mean, Marilyn Manson, the one who released an album whose cover features him with a pair of boobs and a vagina, talking about being 'safe'? If there's a person I would've deemed more open-minded, that was him. You never can tell!

    It did sort of surprise me. Although he was playing the role of the tired seen/done-it-all rock star, and he sort of studiously casually waved away the "yeah, I sucked another guy", the use of the word "safe" seemed a bit of a slip. :slight_smile:

    >>>But in a way, it makes me wonder why this guy is gay and able to be with a woman, and my ex is a lesbian and not able to be with me

    Well, because you're extrapolating. The guy in the clip is able to be with a woman, and I gave you an example of a situation where I could have sex with a woman. All this means is that yes, situations DO exist where gay people can get with members of the opposite sex without considering themselves bisexual. This doesn't mean that ALL gays can do this, or even that "if they care about someone of the opposite sex, they can do it". These are very specific situations for very specific people. For instance, I wouldn't have sex with other female friends of mine, even if I were single, and they were interested. It was a very specific case - I think sex is an amazingly wonderful thing, and the idea that her only sex partner (to date) had been an insensitive clod was upsetting to me. I felt she deserved to have at least one positive sexual experience, and I was egotistical enough to think perhaps I could give her that. :slight_smile:

    The fact is - you ended up not being one of these very rare, very specific exceptions to the rule.

    Lex
     
  16. Jim1454

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2007
    Messages:
    7,284
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Toronto
    ^ Agree

    ^^^ Also agree (while it was LONG!)

    I was actually married for 9 years to a wonderful, loving, fun, sexy and sexual woman. I hadn't realized I was gay when I married her and remained in denial for the duration of our relationship. I 'fell in love' with her - or at least I assumed I had. I hadn't ever been that close to someone before, and in my mid 20s it seemed about time for me to settle down. (I always assumed that I would.)

    And we had sex. I think it was pretty good sex. I'd never had sex with anyone else, so what did I know? She seemed to enjoy it, so I figured I was doing it right! :icon_wink

    But I now identify as being gay. The gay guy inside me was knocking on the door wanting out, and holding the door closed caused all kinds of crap in my life. It wasn't pretty. And I was one of those guys that desperately wanted to stay with my wife, even after I came out to her. Why? Because I was afraid. I didn't know what the future held for me, and I wanted to comfort and safety that our 'normal' relationship provided.

    But she wanted no part of that. First off - I had cheated, and she wasn't sure she could trust me. Second - she didn't think she could be happy wondering for the rest of her life if I was really happy being with her - as was suggested above. So SHE chose to end our marriage. (And I really couldn't blame her.)

    In the end, it was the best thing for both of us - given the circumstances.

    So I don't know what might be motivating the guy in the video you watched, or what motivates your girlfriend. But that is my story. I was 'happily' married to a woman, but I consider myself to be gay.
     
  17. UCLA77

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2009
    Messages:
    90
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Straight
    I understand what you're all saying. It's all the phrases like "identify as.." that kind of confuse me. I would never say that I "identify" as a straight person. I'm not sure what that means. That makes it sound like there's more to it.

    I can never imagine doing anything sexual with another man though, which is part of the reason why I was wondering how a gay man can ever have sex with a woman. I hope I'm wording all this right; bear with me. I just couldn't make myself do it, I couldn't force myself to do anything with a man. It would have to come naturally, and it doesn't.

    All this stuff seems so complicated and confusing to me. The more I think about it, the more I realize that all this seems like a whole new world that I just don't understand! I hope that didn't come out wrong. I don't mean any disrespect at all.

    I love my ex-girlfriend and I wish her the best, I know she tried to change who she was, and even though we're out of eachother's lives, I'm proud that she have the courage to finally be herself.

    Our story is sort of like one of those movies where you're not really sure if it's a happy ending or a sad ending. It depends on who you ask, I guess.
     
  18. xequar

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2007
    Messages:
    1,684
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Detroit area, Michigan
    Think of the "Identify As" like this-You're straight. But, you act gay, you tell people you're gay, and you try your hardest to keep people from knowing that you're straight. In such a case, you're straight but you identify as gay.

    But, as it is, you're straight, and you identify as straight.

    Make sense?
     
  19. UCLA77

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2009
    Messages:
    90
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Straight
    So you mean if you're gay, but you act straight, tell people you're straight, and try your hardest to keep people from knowing you're gay, is that identifying as straight?
     
  20. Kirakishou

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2009
    Messages:
    551
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Illinois
    There is more to it, nobody is fully gay or straight. Think of it as "long story short". We don't want to go into full details so we "identify" as gay or straight because that's mostly what we are or what we want people to believe we are, in some cases.
     
    #20 Kirakishou, Apr 2, 2009
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2009