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Bisexual erasure

Discussion in 'Coming Out Advice' started by Pseudojim, Oct 3, 2009.

  1. Pseudojim

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    Hi all

    It hasn't been long since i've embraced my own bisexuality, and i've already noticed the rampancy of bisexual erasure in both gay and straight society. My father for example asserts that bisexual people are just 'fags in denial'. Even on this site, while my profile clearly announces my orientation, i have been referred to as 'gay' even by an admin of this forum. I don't find that offensive, but we seem to be glossed over SO easily by both gay and straight people. It's alienating and depressing and i'm not sure what to do about it.
     
  2. Lexington

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    One issue is that, for many, claiming "bisexuality" really IS a stepping stone to coming out. They feel that by doing so, they can at least "test the waters" with their friends, and assure them that "I still like girls/guys", so hopefully it's not so big a step. Then, later on, they take the further step into "gay".

    Add into that the ever-problematic "as for me, so for all". For all gay guys who went that route, when they're introduced to someone who is bisexual, they often think/say "Yeah, I said I was bisexual for awhile, too - wink wink." You know, since THEY only used the bisexual tag as a crutch, why then, EVERYBODY who says they're bisexual is doing the same thing.

    Yet another issue. "Gay" has become a rather catch-all term for "non-straight". It mainly refers to homosexual men, although it now is oft used for lesbians as well. (Despite this, many organizations make sure that they say they're for "gays and lesbians", just to be clear.) I myself tend to refer to any non-straight as "gay", not meaning to slight lesbians, bisexuals, transgenders, and any other non-traditional sexuality. This doesn't mean I think bisexuals don't exist - I know a few, and I don't think they're "gays in disguise" or "indecisive". And it doesn't mean I think I can lump them in with everybody else - bisexuals have their own issues they deal with. But often, they deal with similar problems as gays and lesbians, and so it's often easy to lump every non-straight in to a generic pool. "Non-straight" is a rather clumsy term for them, even if it's more accurate - "gay" seems to be the more standard one.

    Yet another issue I've found that bisexuals face is that no matter how they act on their sexuality, there seems to be a snarky way that some gays view it. Let's take a male bisexual, for instance.

    He dates mainly men? He's gay pretending to be semi-normal.
    He dates mainly women? He's trying to use women to forget he's gay.
    He dates both? He's insatiable.
    He settles down with a guy? He finally decided he's gay but still can't admit it.
    He settles down with a woman? Figures. Never date a bi guy, 'cause he'll dump you for a girl.
    He doesn't settle down? He's confused.

    Bis can't win for losing. :slight_smile:

    Lex
     
  3. Deniable

    Deniable Guest

    i kind of see where you're coming from about this situation.. since yeah, most people seem to assume if a guy is "bisexual" he is gay.. but why is it that when girls are "bisexual" people seem to just accept it most of the time? i always wondered also..

    don't feel depressed over it though since although there are a lot of people that may misunderstand what bisexuality is.. there are also people out there that understand. i don't really know what to tell you since i can't say i completely know what you mean.. because well, i'm not you. just wanted to write my opinion. ^^;

    :smilewave
     
  4. Pseudojim

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    First of all, thanks for deleting that insultingly idiotic reply.

    And this:

    is absolutely perfect. It's those sort of attitudes i fear are going to ruin my chances with a lot of women AND men. I don't know whether it's a good idea to keep my orientation to myself when dealing with a new potential partner and bring it up later at the risk of looking like i'm trying to hide duplicity, or to just get it out in the open at the risk of frightening someone not accustomed to dealing with a bi.
     
    #4 Pseudojim, Oct 3, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2009
  5. Lexington

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    It's my opinion that you can't force people to stop being wrong. You can try to show them that they're wrong, certainly, but if they choose to stick by their wrong attitudes, all you can do is shrug it off and move on. I know some gay guys who think of bisexuals as I explained above. I've explained my case, and they still choose to hold on to their beliefs. That's their call. It just means they won't get to date any cool bisexuals, that's all. :slight_smile:

    Should you tell potential partners? My feeling is yes. Will they think "you're gonna ditch me for the other gender"? Perhaps. But the way I see it - I'm attracted to both blondes and brunettes, say. Does that mean I can't be satisfied with just a blonde? That after a while, I'm gonna go ditch the blonde for a brunette? It ain't as cut and dried as all that.

    ...by the way, when I first saw your thread title, my first thought was "No, the guy from Erasure isn't bisexual - he's gay". :slight_smile:

    Lex
     
    #5 Lexington, Oct 3, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2009
  6. L|L

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    As much as you may take it personally, don't.

    Not to generalise, but I think there are a lot of gay men and women who considered themselves bisexual because they couldn't call themselves gay - myself included.

    There are just some who just don't believe someone can be bisexual - myself not included.

    edit

    oops waited too long

    what lex said =]
     
  7. Pseudojim

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    I know what i am. I like men and women.
     
  8. Gaetan

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    Part of my denial about being gay I considering myself, privately, bisexual. But the term just never sat right with me.

    The term was, at least for me, a stepping stone. I kept telling myself, "I'll end up with whomever or whatever I end up with." But, ultimately, I realized that the "whatever" part was me just easing the blow of "I'm gay."

    I do understand, quite well, that there are people who don't use it as an excuse. That is why I try to never judge and accept what others say about themselves. They know better than I could ever know, so what more do I need?
     
  9. BlasttheCloset

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    Thank you for starting this thread, because I have encountered a lot of the same attitudes, and I think that that is part of why I am still so in the closet- I could deal with the fallout from straight homophobes, but I don't want to get backlash from both sides-gay and straight. :icon_sad:
     
  10. Greggers

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    I dont think female bisexuals have even close to the amount of backlash from both sides as male bisexuals do.

    Being female and bisexual often makes you more popular. Its "hip" and "cool" to be a woman and just swing whatever way you feel like that day. Its a turn on, just look at any long running drama or comedy TV show! Every straight girl gets to experiment for one episode it seems.

    Meanwhile, the poor bisexual guy gets the short end of the stick. Straight guys lump him in with all the other full blown gay guys and Gay guys cant get over the fact that he may be into more than just guys.

    But - and a BIG BUT here - all these thoughts that we have been discussing belong to the uneducated. So anyone who knows a thing or two about bisexuality is not going to jump the gun and judge you. Add to that list anyone that you yourself educate on the subject and you have alot of people who are not going to hate on you for being bisexual.

    Education, the #1 enemy of ignorance.
     
  11. JoeG

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    hey not had time to read the rest of the thread but u seem to understand wat wee go through, ur right it's hard, i like guys alot lot more than girls, but i like girls abit tincywincy bit, 5% may be, but i still like em, i dunoo wot the future willl hold im jus goiin with the flow.

    x
     
  12. Just Adam

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    i knwo how you feel people keep saying im gay...oh hes gay ....yes this is adam hes gay ...are you gay...its ok to be gay ya know>.> FFS!

    peopel assume in everywhere i go that jsut because i like guys im gay it does suck and i have to go no im not gay which is really awkward as it and i dont knwo why allways seems liek a culture shock...he likes guys yet isnt gay...no funny enough not...>.> try telling people your pansexual it is the most AHH thing
     
  13. I wish to god I hadn't come out as bi before deciding I was gay. I hate continuing the stereotype, and it makes everything so much more confusing when I now have to tell people, "No, I've decided that I'm pretty much gay." And I'm out to some people as bi and some as gay and it's just not a good situation.

    I do agree that 'gay' is sometimes used as a word to mean 'not straight,' and I don't think you need to take offense from it. Not saying it's wrong for you to, but just... don't worry about it. You know what you are, and hopefully as the LGBT community keeps becoming more and more accepted bisexuals will be understood more. :slight_smile:
     
  14. biisme

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    While many people assume that male bisexuals are really gays, many people also believe that women bisexuals are really straight and they're just "bi" to be popular, or they're just going through a phase and eventually they'll end the experimentation and end up with "a nice guy".

    I've also talked to people that people someone is bisexual if they have a boyfriend and a girlfriend at the same time, or can only be bisexual if they've already been with members of both sexes. Both of these assumptions are completely off base.
     
  15. Numfarh

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    I'm going to politely disagree.
    As a bisexual female, I am constantly being shut down by lesbians. There is this awful fear that I'm going to run off with a man just because I can be attracted to them. It's absolute rubbish of course. And hip and cool? You just said that every straight girl gets to experiment. Goody for them that they can pretend to dig girls and then turn it off like a switch. That surely will make me feel better when people tell me that I'm faking it for attention or that I'm just some confused college girl.

    Trying to say that bisexual women have less hardships to deal with is silly. I think both bisexual men and women and those that fall in between have to deal with enough crap without turning against each other due to the perceived 'ease' of their sexuality.

    Harumpf.

    Also, I prefer to use the term 'queer' as my umbrella term. I know that technically not all gays/lesbians/transgenders/bisexuals/whatevers consider themselves to be queer and it's rapidly becoming a different entity unto itself (often involving genderfucking and such, at least where I see it from sexblogs/the LGBT community in Montreal), but I find it a much more descriptive term than simply using 'gay'.
     
    #15 Numfarh, Oct 3, 2009
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  16. Beachboi92

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    I know exactly how u feel with the bisexual thing. First of all i identify as bisexual but preferring men much more which makes it annoying to explain and when i tell people they end up calling me gay one day i got so tired of it i sat down and thought "in the end if i had a choice between the perfect guy and the perfect girl which would i choose" Now don't get me wrong i believe in bisexuality 100000000000% and i think sexuality is fluid but i still just started even calling myself gay. In the end its really simply because i got tired of labels and trying to explain when i don't fit in to even regular categories.

    I am not saying you should do this but do realize that some people say it only because they are in denial or using it as a stepping stone, some people are and just don't fit it cleanly enough to want to deal with the whole "yeah i am sort of gay but like women like a 80/20 thing" and then get called gay anyways..... In the end only you can decide what you are and its up to you how to deal with people who act otherwise. As long as you remember you are what you are and there is nothing wrong with that then your good because in the end the only important thing is YOU KNOW and are comfortable with yourself. (*hug*)
     
  17. Chip

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    Couple thoughts:

    First, Alfred Kinsey, in the flawed, but yet only large-scale study of human sexuality ever done to-date, indicated that only about 10% of the population, according to his survey, is exclusively heterosexual or exclusively homosexual. Everyone else is somewhere on the continuum. So that being the case, according to Kinsey at least, about 90% of the human population, at least in the US, is somewhat bisexual.

    I would identify as a Kinsey 4.5 or 5 (the scale is 0 to 6, with 0 being totally heterosexual, 6, being totally homosexual), but I still identify as gay. A large percentage of people I've met and talked to about such things are also somewhere on the continuum at one end or the other.

    Secondly, my own experience in talking to and working with a *lot* of young people over the years is that the vast majority of people I know of who label themselves as "bisexual" when they are first coming out are labeling themselves as "gay" some years later.

    I do believe that for many people who date and partner exclusively with people of the same sex that keeping the "bisexual" label allows them to maintain, in their own mind, the belief that they could still have the "normal American dream" life with the hetero-appropriate husband or wife, the house with the white picket fence, and the 2.3 kids. It's essentially a mostly harmless form of denial, and in some cases, it makes it easier for parents or family/friends to accept them.

    And then of course, there are people who are genuinely Kinsey 3s, who are completely bisexual and have absolutely no preference for one sex or the other. I've met people this way, who have had a long string of meaningful relationships with men and women, and genuinely seem equally attracted to both (and are not sluts or overly sexual.)

    So really... i think there's a lot of truth on both sides of the issue. The labels are imperfect, because they attempt to make binary (or trinary, to be picky) an experience which is really a continuum. If, instead of labeling ourselves as "gay" or "lesbian" or "straight" or "bi", we labeled ourselves as "Kinsey 2" or "Kinsey 5" or whatever, it would be a lot clearer, but most people would have no idea what we're talking about :wink:
     
  18. Greggers

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    I agree, and disagree.

    Of course bisexual females are going to face alot of hardship, that goes unsaid. Each different sexuality faces things the other doesn't, some bad and some good im sure.

    But keep in mind alot of people find bisexual women a turn-on. Thats all im saying. Nothing more, nothing less. Its just my personal experience. I find the media and the small group of people that make up my life tend to lean towards bisexuality in females better than bisexuality in males from a *general* point of view. When it comes down to actually facing the issue on a deeper level thats different.

    And "queer" is certainty a better umbrella term. One thing that ties us all together is the fact we defy the gender and sexuality "norms" that 100% heterosexual people have a majority over.
     
  19. Haiiro

    Haiiro Guest

    You beat me to it. I have this exactly same problem, and it bothers me endlessly. Female bisexuals get the shaft a lot because of television and the drunken bar crowd. That is exactly why songs like Katie Perry's "I kissed a Girl" make me so very angry. Behavior intended to be popular or get attention =/= bisexuality

    Both genders have their problems with this issue, from all communities, and it's just sad.

    I like this plan, even if people who never took a psychology course would probably not get it. (I only say this, because I wouldn't have known about Kinsey had I not taken psychology)
     
  20. Jay D

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    I have to disagree - I get a lot of backlash and so do a lot of female bisexuals where I live - we're seen as whores for dating men and queer for dating women. When I came out, I experienced a lot of abuse and bullying from many of my peers. In fact, any woman or man who's bi in our school gets abuse - that's why there's hardly any of us at my school. It does happen to girls, and to the extent as it happens to boys as well! :tantrum: